E.l.e.c.t.r.i.c D.r.e.a.m.s Subscribe: electric-dreams-subscribe@yahoogroups.com Unsubscribe: electric-dreams-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Subscribe Online: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/electric-dreams o|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|o E.l.e.c.t.r.i.c D.r.e.a.m.s Volume #10 Issue #7 July 2003 ISSN# 1089 4284 o|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|o http://www.dreamgate.com/electric-dreams o|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|o Download a cover for this issue http://dreamgate.hypermart.net/ed-covers/ed10-5cov.jpg o|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|o C O N T E N T S ++ Editor's Notes ++ The Global Dreaming News Events - Updates - Reviews - More From Peggy Coats - www.DreamTree.com ++ Cover Artist's Statement Laura N. Atkinson ++ Column: An Excerpt From the Lucid Dream Exchange Jan Hart's Unique Lucid Dreaming By Lucy Gillis ++ Article: How Real is the Dream? By Linda Lane Magallón ++ Column: A View from the Bridge Report on the World Dreams Peace Bridge Dafumu Dreaming By Jean Campbell ++ Newsletter: The Waves: 03. Star Trek to Sirius By Nick Cumbo ++ Article: DreamWork for Everyday Life Susan Clemons ++ Article: How Will Androids Dream of Electric Sheep? A conversation about androids and dreaming Richard Wilkerson and the ASD Online Community D R E A M S S E C T I O N : Volume #661 - #669 With Editors Elizabeth Westlake and Harry Bosma D E A D L I N E : July 16th deadline for August 2003 submissions XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX Post Dreams and Comments on Dreams to: http://www.dreamgate.com/dream/temple Send Dreaming News and Calendar Events to: Peggy Coats Send Articles and Subscription concerns to: Richard Wilkerson: o|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|o Editor's Notes o|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|o Welcome to the July 2003 issue of Electric Dreams, your portal to dreams and dreaming online. If you are new to dreams and dreaming, please join us on dreamchatters@yahoogroups.com and we will guide you to the resources you need. To join send an e to dreamchatters-subscribe@yahoogroups.com or if you are interested in sharing dreams for world peace, please join the World Dreams Peace Bridge http://www.worlddreamspeacebridge.org It's Conference Time! If you haven't registered yet for the Twentieth Annual International Conference of the Association for the Study of Dreams that will be sailing into Berkeley, California between June 27th and July 1, then stop right now and make your plans and get registered at http://www.asdreams.org/2003 This is the most fabulous dream event on earth. There will be over a hundred presentations and workshops, plus special events and the Annual Dream Ball where you can come as your favorite dream person and dance with a wide assortment of costumed dreamers. Lucy Gillis offers Electric Dreams a selection each month from her _Lucid Dream Exchange_. The current issue of LDE is devoted to the unique lucid dreamer. The excerpt in this issue is a lucid dream from Jan Hart where she travels in a unique lucid adventure, meeting a mentor, viewing past and present lives and visiting friends. Break out of binary thinking and join the universe! In Linda Magallón's "How Real is the Dream?" the doors of perception open up from the limited views of dreams that are just hidden- revealed or big-small, dream or not-dream. Get your tools honed for entering realities that aren't given to you by someone else. Jean Campbell, spokesperson for the international dreaming and outreach group World Dreams Peace Bridge (WDPB) has a monthly report for us called the View from the Bridge. This month she explains how the group is practicing DAFUMU dreaming and how you can participate. Nick Cumbo newsletter and column reports on the explorations of the Sea Life community. Sea Life, the main web forum at Dreampeace, aims to bring together a circle of dreamers from around the globe, collaborating in dreaming adventures, and 'dreaming with and for the earth itself.' This month, The Waves 03 looks at dreams of Sirius, and the system's relevance to life on Earth; From ancient knowledge of the system to key themes that arose in our adventures. Also included, dreams as a way of a communicating on a galactic or transdimensional level. Susan Clemons has been an active dreamer for many years and has recently noticed that the kinds of interaction that occur in online dream groups are the kinds of interaction she would like to incorporate into her daily life. In "DreamWork for Everyday Life" Susan explores what it is that she likes about these interactions and what kinds of guidelines might promote such a community. Tribal assassins, snakes in the yard, man forced to live in glass cylinders… is this the end of the world? No, its just the Electric Dreams section on DREAMS! This section is beautifully edited by Elizabeth Westlake [with the help of Harry Bosma's editor program]. If you have dreams you want published, don't send them to Elizabeth directly, but rather enter them in the form at http://www.dreamgate.com/dream/temple Or you can put them in the dream flow directly by subscribing to: dream-flow-subscribe@yahoogroups.com -------------------- For those of you who are new to dreams and dreaming, be sure to stop by one of the many resources: http://www.dreamtree.com http://www.dreamgate.com/electric-dreams http://www.dreamgate.com/dream/library NEW from Nick Cumbo, Electric Dreams in PDF: http://www.dreamofpeace.net/community/electricdreams/ -------------------- Dream Week declared by San Francisco and Berkeley Mayors. The 2003 ASD International Dream Conference in Berkeley is July 27- June 1. http://www.asdreams.org/2003 Cover at: http://dreamgate.hypermart.net/ed-covers/ed10-7cov.jpg The cover this month is from Laura Atkinson and Richard Wilkerson -Richard Wilkerson /////////////////////////////////////////////////////// <<<<<<<<<<<<<<|||||||>>>>>>>>>>>|||||<<<<<<<<<<<< G L O B A L D R E A M I N G N E W S July 2003 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<|||||||>>>>>>>>>>>|||||<<<<<<<<<<<< If you have news you'd like to share, contact Peggy Coats, web@dreamtree.com. Visit Global Dreaming News online at http://www.dreamtree.com/ This Month's Features: NEWS -- "Dream Week" to Feature Experts on Sleep and Dreams At International ASD Conference -- Book: Dream Catcher by Patricia Garfield, Ph.D. -- Book: Dreams of Healing by Kelly Bulkeley, Ph.D. -- Jung Seminars via E-mail -- Alexandria Project: Preservation of Dream Resources -- Bosma Online Lucidity Training RESEARCH & REQUESTS -- How Will Machines Dream? -- Computer Dreams Survey -- Dream Survey by Kelly Bulkeley WEBSITE & ONLINE UPDATES -- Dream Cartoon Online -- YourGuidetoDreams.com -- Ancient Dream Book online -- ASD O.n.l.i.n.e -- SacredDreams.net now online! DREAM CALENDAR <<<<<<<<<<<<<<|||||||>>>>>>>>>>>|||||<<<<<<<<<<<< N E W S <<<<<<<<<<<<<<|||||||>>>>>>>>>>>|||||<<<<<<<<<<<< >>>> "Dream Week" to Feature Experts on Sleep and Dreams At International ASD Conference June 27 - July 1, 2003 Berkeley, California BERKELEY, CA — The week of June 27-July 3 has been declared Dream Week by the mayors of both San Francisco and Berkeley to honor the international Association for the Study of Dreams which is holding its 20th annual conference at the new Doubletree Hotel at the Berkeley Marina that week. The proclamations also recognize the 50th anniversary of the discovery of REM (rapid eye movement) sleep, a breakthrough that proved that the phenomenon of dreaming is universal. William Dement, M.D., part of the University of Chicago team who identified this sleep cycle, will give a keynote presentation on the progress in sleep and dream research over the past 50 years. Dement was also a founder of the pioneering Stanford Sleep Disorder clinic. INTERNATIONALLY RECOGNIZED EXPERTS TO PRESENT The ASD conference, entitled Dreaming by the Bay, includes over 100 diverse presentations by the world's foremost dream researchers, authors, and clinicians. Included are workshops and seminars that feature psychological, medical, artistic, anthropological, spiritual, and cinematic perspectives on dreaming. New findings on the psychology and meaning of dreams by European, Australian, Asian, and North American researchers will be presented. Conference Program Chair and past-President of ASD, Alan Siegel, Ph.D., will conduct a series of Continuing Education presentations with psychotherapists and researchers on the meaning of dreams and their use in psychotherapy. This will include a session on cultural and ethical issues in working with trauma survivors' dreams and nightmares, featuring vignettes of nightmares of survivors of natural disasters, war, terrorism, and accidents. DREAMS, SPIRIT AND RELIGION The link between dreams, spirit, and religion will be explored in a keynote address and panel discussions by world renowned comparative religion scholar, Huston Smith, Ph.D., with Peter Kingsley, Ph.D. and Kelly Bulkeley, Ph.D. Acclaimed psychologist and parapsychologist, Stanley Krippner, Ph.D. will participate on a panel about dreams and shamanism, and present research on paranormal dreaming. Pioneering researcher Stephen LaBerge, Ph.D., founder of the Lucidity Institute, will talk about current research on dreaming and consciousness. DREAMS, CREATIVITY AND THE ARTS The interface between the world of dreams and visual imagery will be explored through cinema and art. Two symposia will show the impact and portrayal of dream in classical and contemporary cinema. There will also be a juried exhibit of dream-inspired art where artists will be available to discuss their work, and a slide show of dream-related art. Even Harry Potter will attend the conference when San Francisco psychotherapist, Gail Grynbaum, Ph.D., discusses the nightmares of Harry Potter. A series of expressive arts workshops are also on the program. ASSOCIATION FOR THE STUDY OF DREAMS The Association for the Study of Dreams is the only organization of its kind in the world. This non-profit, international, multidisciplinary organization has a diverse membership representing a variety of dream-related activities, including academic research, clinical practice, and individual study. CONFERENCE AND CONTACT INFORMATION Members of the public may register for conference activities on a space-available basis. Reporters are welcome to cover presentations. Please go to the registration desk and request a press pass. Media access to workshops is strictly limited; reporters must receive approval to attend from workshop leaders. For additional information on ASD and the conference program visit our website, www.ASDreams.org or call toll-free at 1-866-DREAM12. MEDIA CONTACTS ARE: Alan Siegel at (510) 527-7929 or dreamsdr@aol.com Wendy Pannier at (610) 995-1507 or wpannier@capitalanalysts.com >>>> Book: Dream Catcher by Patricia Garfield, Ph.D. Coming October 2003 Dream Catcher: A Young Person's Journal for Exploring Dreams. Full of fascinating information for ensuring safe sleep and bright dreams drawn from lore around the world, Dream Catcher also invites readers to begin their own dream quest. This is also the companion book for The Dream Book: A Young Person's Guide to Understanding Dreams by Patricia Garfield, Ph.D. Winner of a Parent's Guide Children's Media Award The Young Hoosiers Award Nomination The 2002 Children's Media Awards are sponsored by Parent's Guide to Children's Media, Inc., a non-profit corporation that locates, reviews, and honors outstanding materials for children and teens. http://www.patriciagarfield.com >>> Book: Dreams of Healing by Kelly Bulkeley Dreams of Healing: Transforming Nightmares into Visions of Hope (Paulist Press, 2003) This book shows the value of dreams in helping people who have suffered a personal and/or community crisis to work through their losses and develop a new capacity for creative living. The focus is on the tremendous healing potential of dreaming in times of crisis—even the most terrifying post-traumatic nightmares are part of a healing process that ultimately leads to a deepening of spiritual wisdom and self-understanding. Dozens of examples are given of people who are trying to deal with a horrible collective disaster (like the terrorist attack of September 11) as well as people who have suffered personal catastrophes like sexual abuse, auto accidents, house fires, etc. The book's goal is to provide readers with a basic set of skills to use in working with dreams and nightmares during times of crisis and disaster. http://www.kellybulkeley.com >>> Jung Seminars via E-mail For approximately 6 years, the C.G. Jung Page has sponsored the "Jung-Seminars," moderated e-mail discussions that were led by Jungian analysts and scholars and focused on a recently published book by the seminar leader. We are grateful to have had the participation and support of analysts and Jungian scholars such as Murray Stein (Chicago, current IAAP President), Susan Rowland (London, IAJS Convenor), John Beebe (San Francisco, current President of the San Francisco Institute), Ann Casement (London; member, IAAP Executive Committee), Michael Vannoy Adams (New York), Thomas Singer (San Francisco), Thomas Kirsch (San Francisco, former IAAP President), Andrew Samuels (London), Sue Austin (Sydney, Australia), Wolfgang Giegerich (Wörthsee, Germany), Daryl Sharp (Toronto; publisher of Inner City Books), and Katherine Benziger (Silverthorne, Colorado; creator of the Benziger Thinking Styles Assessment). The Jung-Seminars were held over 3-4 day periods and always enjoyed very active and stimulating discussion during those brief but intense days of correspondence. There were usually 140 or more subscribers to each seminar; most subscribers "listened in" while perhaps 30 to 50 people would participate in the dialogue. Don Roper, an Economics Professor at the University of Colorado at Boulder, created "Communications for a Sustainable Future" (CSF) and generously hosted the Jung-Seminars from its inception. Don will be retiring from the University in August, however, and CSF will no longer be hosting e-mail discussion lists. There are many more resources on the internet for such discussions, and I will be looking for new ways to offer an online resource comparable to the Jung-Seminars. For the remaining time I turned over the use of the Jung-Seminars exclusively to the newly formed International Association for Jungian Studies (IAJS)--an organization for the collaboration of Jungian analysts, psychotherapists, professors, students, and independent scholars. The Jung-Seminars discussion list is available to anyone who becomes a member of IAJS. You can learn more about IAJS by visiting the web site at: www.cgjungpage.org/iajs.html. Membership of IAJS is open to those from any discipline, artistic or cultural practice with an interest in Jungian and Post-Jungian Studies at a scholarly level including analysts and psychotherapists. Masters and doctoral students and candidates undertaking clinical trainings pay dues at a reduced rate. All members shall have equal voting rights. Dues: These have been kept as low as possible and there are two fee bands. For members from the United States and Canada, W.Europe, Japan and Australia the annual fee is $42.00. Those from the rest of the world will pay $21.00. Students and candidates in training will pay half the appropriate rate. I hope that many of you will join and participate in the growth of IAJS. Any new developments with the Jung-Seminars will be mailed to you via the Friends-of-CGJung mailing list. Donald Williams >>> Alexandria Project: Preservation of Dream Resources The Alexandria Project For The Donation & Preservation Of Dream Resources The Alexandria Project is named after the famous library in Egypt (founded ca. 300 B.C.) which stored the collective wisdom of the Hellanistic world. At this point in history, there has been a resurgence of dream materials from a broad spectrum of sources. Today we can gather a wide variety of information and knowledge on the subject of dreams. Due to modern technology, we have an unparalleled opportunity and responsibility to keep these materials available for the present and safe for the future. The long-term goal for this collection is to use electronic means to scan, duplicate and access these materials. The fact is that the dream resources of our age are vanishing due to the lack of a central collection point. Dreamers and dreamworkers are producing and collecting dream materials which have no place to go where people who care about dreams can access them now and in the future. The Alexandria Project is the remedy to that situation. Specifically what is needed now? Dream-related Materials: Books, hardcover and soft, dream inspired fiction and nonfiction, adult and children, which have at least one chapter on dreams. Rare books, welcome for the archive. Unpublished manuscripts including bachelor, master and doctoral theses. Conference papers, term papers, published and unpublished articles. Pamphlets and bookets. Newspaper clippings, dream cartoons and notecards. Short stories, poetry and sheet music. Periodicals, both current and past. Teaching materials, resum‚s, business cards or a personal statement of how you work or play with dreams. Flyers, past and present, including xerox copies. Audio tapes, video tapes and cds of dream-related music. Photos, colored xerox and slides of dreamworkers, events and art. Dream-inspired art and incubation materials. Dream-related products and devices. FINANCIAL CONTRIBUTIONS Money to acquire precious materials available only through purchase. Funding to assure non-profit status. Materials donated to the Alexandria Project go to the Dream Library and Archive located at the Dream Library and Archive in Novato, California. Both the Project and the Dream Library and Archive have been in existence since 1990. The Dream Library and Archive (previously the Novato Center For Dreams) was founded in 1987. The Dream Library includes an on-site reference library available by appointment and a lending library. The Archive houses on-site rare or fragile materials which receive special care and handling. Once the library holdings reached 1000 titles, momentum and interest from the dreaming community increased dramatically. How have people become involved in this project so far? Donated used books from their own collections, especially at time of moving and spring cleaning. Offered complimentary autographied copies of their works. Sent copies of past and current flyers or brochures. Given complimentary dream products. Donated subscriptions to a dream periodical or a set of back issues. Scouted for unaquired titles in their own area or while traveling. Contributed a piece of dream art for wall display. Recommended materials for inclusion in collection. Posted project requests and placed Center on their mailing list. Visited the Center and took advantage of the opportunity to informally document themselves and their work via photograph, audio and video tape. Duplicated slides for the slide registry. Separated their dream books etc from other books and sent a list of dream materials owned to the Center. Volunteered time at the Center; do data entry. Sorted out dream materials for donation at a later date. Made bequests and included the Dream Library and Archive during estate planning. How can I donate? Send materials to Jill Gregory, Director of the Dream Library & Archive, Novato Center For Dreams, 29 Truman Drive, Novato, CA 94947 / (415) 897-7955 To volunteer for the project, please contact Jill Gregory. Available for volunteers are further information on this project, a wish list of materials desired and a current list of holdings. Join us in collecting and preserving our dream gifts and wisdom for all of us ... now and for the future! >>> Bosma Online Lucidity Training Bosma Online lucidity training "I'm planning to bring together a group of lucid and aspiring lucid dreamers. The group would have two objectives. First, get more lucid dreams within a few weeks. Second, evaluate success factors at the end. The whole project will run on a website, with a secured discussion board as the main center of activity. Every week will have a theme, including exercises, and online polls or surveys. I will ask everyone to post as many dreams as possible, especially those dreams that are lucid or prelucid." "The duration of the whole project is five weeks, which should be long enough for everyone to get at least two lucid dreams. Five is also a fitting symbol, as it stands for transformation. Through this project everyone will be transformed into a lucid dreamer! The group starts on July 26th, and will have a minimum of 20 participants and a maximum of around 25. The project is designed to be fun, perhaps even a bit magical. The admission fee consists of USA $20 and one incubated dream." For more information, please email Harry Bosma, hbosma@xs4all.nl. Harry Bosma is the creator of the Alchera dream software and the Lucille reminder tool, website www.mythwell.com. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<|||||||>>>>>>>>>>>|||||<<<<<<<<<<<< R E S E A R C H & R E Q U E S T S <<<<<<<<<<<<<<|||||||>>>>>>>>>>>|||||<<<<<<<<<<<< >> How will machines dream? Electric Dreams Research Survey In the January 97 issue of 21-C: Scanning the Future, Darren Tofts asks a variety of people if androids will dream. "Trapped within the enigma of Philip K. Dick's query [Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?] is the conundrum of being. For within his machine's struggle for humanity is our own philosophical quest for the nature of existence and the acknowledgement of the self." However, the answers received from the digiteratti were banal and dull, hopelessly stuck on the question of whether or not machines can be conscious or not. Clearly the respondents knew very little about dreaming as a process, subjectively or objectively. So, let's fast forward through this question and just assume the positive, that some machines in the future will be dreaming, either by design, necessity or mutated nature. Now he question becomes "How will androids dream of electric sheep?" Give it your best shot, be bizarre, mutant, radical. (if you like, you can include why you think machines must dream, but what I most essentially would like to see is HOW you feel machines might dream.) Please add the following to your answer if you are willing: "I give permission to Electric Dreams to reproduce and publish my answer to 'How will androids dream of electric sheep?'" Name or Penname: _______________ and Name or Penname to be used on EDreams: _______________ Send to rcwilk@dreamgate.com >>> Computer Dreams Survey Are you having computer dreams? Includes dreams of computers, programming, peripherals, Internet venues, and anything digital. Androids, robots and SciFi themes OK. Questionnaire Online: http://www.dreamgate.com/dream/computers/computerdreams.htm Also, you can : • e-mail them to me, Richard Wilkerson, at rcwilk@dreamgate.com • drop them off anonymously at http://www.dreamgate.com/dream/temple • fill out the ascii plain text version http://www.dreamgate.com/dream/computers/computerdreams_survey.txt and e-mail or snail to Computer Survey %DreamGate 4644 Geary Blvd PMB 171 San Francisco, CA 94118 ------------------------------------ DETAILS: Are you dreaming of problems with your hard disk, getting connected, the wrong programs coming up, not being able to find the file you want? Does your computer turn you on, and have you found yourself mating with a digital partner or cyborg sex? Has god spoken to you through your computer in a dream? Has the computer in a dream assisted you in becoming lucid? Just as during the last turn of the century, we shifted from horse and carriage dreams to cars, trucks and jets, now too we are entering a new cyber-symbolic era of networking and global interface. What dream content will remain, what will change? This is a joint study by Electric Dreams and DreamGate: http://www.dreamgate.com/electric-dreams Note: All dreams will be published anonymously unless you would like credit. Be *Very* clear about the personal information you would like included, otherwise your personal info will be removed and a pen-name assigned to the dream. Feel free to send in articles and comments as well. Electric Dreams is a public service network and can not offer you money for your articles or dreams, but we can get your ideas and dreams out to the public. ++++++++ Feel free to distribute this document on any channels or Net venues you wish. and comments as well. Electric Dreams is a public service network and can not offer you money for your articles or dreams, but we can get your ideas and dreams out to the public. Thanks for your cooperation, look for your dreams in the upcoming issues of Electric Dreams. -Richard Wilkerson editor, Electric Dreams rcwilk@dreamgate.com +++++++++ >>> Dream Survey from Kelly Bulkeley, Ph.D. http://www.kellybulkeley.com KB Dream Survey The answers you provide will contribute to the process of better understanding how dreams are formed and what functions they serve. You can also get a response via email of a summary of KB current research using this questionnaire, and if you like KB will offer comments on the dreams you describe. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<|||||||>>>>>>>>>>>|||||<<<<<<<<<<<< W E B S I T E & O N L I N E U P D A T E S <<<<<<<<<<<<<<|||||||>>>>>>>>>>>|||||<<<<<<<<<<<< Do you know of interesting new websites you'd like to share with others? Or do you have updates to existing pages? Help spread the word by using the Electric Dreams DREAM-LINK page www.dreamgate.com/dream/resources/online97.htm. This is really a public projects board and requires that everyone keep up his or her own link URLs and information. Make a point to send changes to the links page to us >>> Dream Cartoon Online Website: http://www.cartoonmonkey.com http://www.wired.com/animation/collection/chad_essley/dreaming/ Chad Essley's Woke Up Dreaming 4 Dec 2001 Chad uses Flash animation to tell his dream of false awakenings and dream flights. [3.7 MB, Flash] >>> YourGuidetoDreams.com YourGuidingDreams offers two options to learn how to interpret your own dreams with the Personalized Method for Interpreting Dreams (PMID) dream interpretation method: (1) non-academic self- facilitated public version, or (2) academic course for graduate students and counseling professionals, accredited by UW- Whitewater's Counselor Education Department, CEU available. ------ From Evelyn Duesbury "Site name: www.YourGuidingDreams.com The site came about from my son Steven, the marketing persons comment while we were discussing my thesis on interpreting dreams: You know, this could work pretty well on the Web. He had just begun exploring Web development. By 2000, the first version of YourGuidingDreams.com was launched to test the PMID process and its effectiveness on the Internet with select ACA members. That was followed a year later by a second test site that was put through its paces by UW-Whitewater graduate students. Based on input and refinements from this testing and feedback from other dream experts, a third version of the site, accredited by the University of Wisconsin-Whitewater's Counselor Education Department and offered through the University's Distance Education Department, was launched in the summer of 2002. I began teaching my first class of graduate students online that fall, with E. Bruce Bynum as research partner and consultant to me. During the process of offering the website to students, we received requests from people who wanted to learn the PMID dream interpretation method, but were either unqualified to take the graduate level course, or wanted an inexpensive way to learn the Method. Encouraged from positive research results and enthusiastic support from my students, we developed this third version of YourGuidingDreams.com, which offers a self-facilitated version in addition to the University course. " >>> Ancient Dream Book online Astrampsychos: The Dream Book [Byzantium, 9th century e.v. - Translated by Monty Cantsin] http://textz.gnutenberg.net/textz/astrampsychos_the_dream_book.txt >>> ASD O.n.l.i.n.e http://asdreams.org I thought some of you might not get to the ASD site every month and yet are interested in the new additions to the site. If you want an update on all ASD activities, you can subscribe to the ASD E-News by sending an e-mail to asd-enews-subscribe@yahoogroups.com June Additions to the ASD site: An article by Bert O. States. "Dreams, Art and Virtual Worldmaking" http://www.asdreams.org/journal/articles/13-1_states.htm Long time dream author and dream theorist Bert O. States looks at the possible role of dreams in virtual worldmaking via fictional formation, and how these maintain our adaptive systems. This isn't about an exclusive function for the dream but rather how fiction's preoccupation with daily concerns help to widen our perceptual and response systems. The focus is not so much on the moral aspects as the increase in mental organization skills. States finds a certain harmony in the dream despite all the bizarreness of many dreams. The general idea is that the inner story-telling is one of the ways we accumulate "sums" of knowledge and expectation. Inner narratives also help in the maintenance of our notions of human experience. From fictional types to universal dreams, these grand narratives, States unfolds the plots of our systems of probability and adaptation. From the ASD journal _Dreaming_, Vol. 13 No. 1, March 2003. Upcoming: Watch for the ASD Online Art Gallery to show the 2003 Art Exhibit http://www.asdreams.org/2003 Hey, do you have trouble with nightmares? Free Nightmare Hotline from ASD & Friends : 1-866-DRMS911 - RCW >>> SacredDreams.net Dreamwork from Steve Smith "The intent of Sacred Dreams is to allow individuals, couples, and groups to tap into the creative energy of the dream, to cultivate the dream's healing potential, and to focus on the dream's meanings, insights, and potential for self-knowledge and self- growth. Scared Dreams values dreamwork as a sacred and spiritual tool toward awakening." The site can be reached at www.SacredDreams.net. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<|||||||>>>>>>>>>>>|||||<<<<<<<<<<<< D R E A M C A L E N D A R May-June 2003 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<|||||||>>>>>>>>>>>|||||<<<<<<<<<<<< Jun 27-Jul 1 in Berkeley, CA 20th Annual International Conference of the Association for the Study of Dreams. For more information, visit www.asdreams.org End News <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< o|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|o Cover Artist Statement Laura Atkinson o|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|o Laura N. Atkinson sunstarz2001@yahoo.com http://www.arthatglows.com/ As a former photojournalist, Ms. Atkinson has explored the links between art, visual therapy, and the realities of the dream state for many years. Her work, while being a deeply personal exploration of her own dreams, jars the viewer with its beauty of light interplay, form, and design. Ms. Atkinson's work has a tactile beauty that brings viewers into her private world while simultaneously giving one the permission to touch, feel, and experience each piece, while making it part of his/her own world, language, and life. The organic nature of Ms. Atkinson's abstract shapes fuse together to create recognizable images that strike a resonate cord. These images are further enhanced by her use of natural and eco-friendly tools such as water-soluble paint combinations on silk fabric. Ms. Atkinson's use of silk is a hidden metaphor for the fluidity of our dreams and frailty of beauty. The medium serves as a haunting reminder of how both shimmer before us, but can disappear in the blink of an eye. An eternal aide memoire that everything is not always as it appears to be. Her intuitive use of bold color and the confidence of her brushstroke show the full force of her formidable talent. Recently, she has begun taking commission work to interpret the dreams of others through the brush and canvas. In addition to exploring work through the medium of paint, Ms. Atkinson has begun studying and photographing energy fields. A powerful series of images from this new endeavor were recently displayed at Rhode Island School of Design. Dream Journaling Ms. Atkinson maintains two dream journals; one is a written log of her dreams. The second is a collection of visual images, without words. She uses the two records to draw inspiration for her work. ---------- o|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|o An Excerpt From the Lucid Dream Exchange By Lucy Gillis o|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|o The current issue of LDE is devoted to the unique lucid dreamer, honoring his and/or her unique experiences, beliefs, and goals. Below is a wonderful dream journey from Jan Hart where she meets a mentor, views lives both past and present, and makes a quick visit to an old friend. Jan Hart A LUCID DREAM/KEEPING AN APPOINTMENT April 2003 There is a certain concept that has given me much satisfaction. Namaste. My Soul Greets Your Soul. I feel fairly confidant in my dreaming. I can recognize various types of awareness in different types of dreams and/or dream settings. I say this because everybody has guides in their dreams. Everyone has a Soul. My dreaming has exemplified the multidimensionality of my self. I recognize my "people" or my "self" while dreaming. But I also recognize other people, or "strangers" in my dreams. I guess I am saying this because the dream that follows was about as personally intense for me, as say, my 16 year old going on a date with Jennifer Lopez! My awareness is jolted awake and I find myself before a door. I am very excited about an appointment I am about to attend. I know that this meeting has been scheduled for a long time. I know that Jane Roberts is in the room on the other side of the door: I know that I have been trying to have a volitional projection to speak with her for years: I know that this is an appointment that I have waited for, for a very long time. I know that I am Jan, that I have a family and a home...I know that I am dreaming and I know that I am completely awake. Suddenly, filled with a bit of anxiety and excitement, I find myself face to face with Jane Roberts. She is a little leary of me and I feel her weariness with "seekers". I assure her that I am not seeking her in terms of a guru or messiah or anything, but that I have been trying to give myself the suggestion to visit with her with a volitional projection. I tell her how amazed I am to actually be here talking with her. I wanted to tell her about my dreaming, how she, Rob and Seth have influenced my life and that I am a big-time cat lover. She moves nimbly and is quite petite (a size 5....not a too-skinny person wearing baggy 5's, and not a 7 squeezing into a 5....she is a true 5). She is wearing a mumu (sic) of the most hideous fluorescent orange and pink flowers I have ever seen! I smile and she laughs about it. She tells me that it is a guise that she often takes to facilitate communication. I am a little bummed at first because I don't want her to patronize me, I want to speak to her as a friend and peer with similar ideas. I didn't come to worship her or idolize her.....to which she immediately sparks up and knows that it's the truth and we agree about feeling each others personality feeling tones (Namaste) and she relaxed. I told her that I had just finished Sue's [Sue Watkins] last two books (to me, I think she did a book on plants, but I haven't read that) and she was genuinely interested, so I conjured up my conceptual feeling tones concerning the books and my love, respect and admiration for their works (Jane, Rob, Seth, and Sue). Jane really related and became quite animated and we bullshitted for what seemed like hours about everything. I told her of my life, my kids, my man, my dreams, and she told me about other areas of awareness that she was working in. She told me about many of the people that try to contact her for "things" and how frustrating it all can be. To her the magic is in applying the material in your daily life and she is amused by all of the people trying to contact her. Suddenly, as we are talking, we begin to share a conscious place together. We both are our individual selves, but we are sharing the same area/space/wave (whatever you want to call it) of consciousness. We are suddenly about 40-45ft. in the air above a golden bog. It is late summer, early fall. I know that we are near the Roanoke Colonies, Virginia. We watch a door to a building (a fort-ish type structure) open and we see a young girl dart out with a skin of some sort (a cow's stomach with the esophagus open, the rest sealed). She needs to get water from the hole in the bog and she is angry and scared. Her feelings are racing something like this: "I know we need the water. I realize I am expendable, but this hurts, this is frightening, why is it like this? Why do we need to live this way? I know that the men are needed to protect us, but this isn't right". She knows that the reason they stayed inside is to increase the chance for survival of the rest of the colony. "If a man went out to get water and got killed, it would be one less man to protect the colony, but if I got killed it would only be one less mouth to feed".....and in part, because of this attitude, she wasn't going to get caught. She ran with her skin to a patch of clear water about 150 feet from the "door" to fill her skin. When she was about 12 feet from the water hole she remembered the natives and how they would kill her if they caught her outside the compound.... Now all of this time Jane and I are watching the scene unfold....at the same exact time the girl becomes frightened remembering her predicament, Jane and I see two natives standing on a bank that overlooks the bog. Instantly there was "Namaste" between us and the natives, us and the girl, the girl and the natives, the girl and us, the natives and the girl and the natives and us. We all knew that she wouldn't die from the natives. The girl ducked down and scooped up as much water as quickly as she could, flung the skin over her right shoulder and took off running as gracefully as a deer, with her feet deftly going hummock to hummock. At this point I lost some of my lucidity. It was as if my awareness was tethered to this girl; like a balloon on a string, so that as she ran I was pulled along behind her about 12 feet in the air. I watched her steps carefully, almost as if I was helping her intentions, and I watched her land on each hummock perfectly. She got to the door and ran inside. While my awareness was being pulled like a balloon because I was attached to the girl, Jane's awareness was attached to mine like a balloon. As soon as we were inside the building, the building changed times. Where before we were in the late 1600's early 1700's, I knew that although we were in basically the same location, that we were in the years between 1950 and 1970. I could tell by tendrils of my awareness that we were still at the same "bog" location, but that structural fill had made the ground sturdy enough to erect a "modern" building. Jane and I queried each other about our location and we both "knew" the above was true. Suddenly there was a woman in the doorway holding a 2ft. x 2ft. x 2ft. metal box. We knew that it had a dead child in it. We could feel the turmoil of somebody in the building concerning the body in the box. Suddenly, there was a stainless steel autopsy type table to our left with a young girl child on it. She was supine and appeared to be a "bog mummy". As soon as I saw her I recognized the mummy as the young girl we had just seen gathering water. A doctor walked in, and as soon as I saw him I knew that it was my son, D'Artagnon. He was there to work on the mummy by giving it a full autopsy, but for some reason, upon seeing this girl his heart was broken......I mean, he felt mentally, emotionally, and physically ill. He seemed confused about his reaction because he'd worked on many mummies before and had never felt any real remorse for his actions....but this was different. Jane nudged me (figuratively speaking) and I suddenly knew that he was one of the two natives that we had seen in the previous scene. Namaste all over again. Going contrary to the type of procedure he (the doc) was expected to do on this girl, he instead sliced a few "thin-sections" from the front of her mummified legs. I knew in that instant that she died from "natural" causes in the bog, not because of some heinous murder. I knew that shortly after having retrieved the water from the bog that she'd made a decision to leave this life. I knew that she had realized that that life didn't offer the type of value fulfillment she'd desired. It was like if a different probability had been experienced, one where the natives and the colonists were cooperative neighbors, she would have stayed. But when that didn't pan out, she wanted out of the experiment. I knew that the autopsy, should it ever be performed, would reveal some sort of paralysis that was derived from an infection starting somewhere in the girls lower back. I knew she was a speaker in this locale, young as she was, and she was a part of an experiment that would be better understood by my higher self/super self. Then I was coming home [on my way back to my body] and had another startling jolt awake. (This was a conscious projection to a man I used to drill with. His name is Reggie and I haven't seen him since I was laid off. We always enjoyed our work, whether we were on a mountain-top or in a quarry. He in his self-contained unit, me in my carharts with about 3 additional layers beneath them. We would literally drill in the snow for 8-10 hours a day during big jobs.) The thing is, is that I woke myself up, I intended to speak with Reggie, and suddenly I saw a self-contained drill on the street. I conjured up my feelings for Reggie and I felt my awareness travel through an intricate network of divine messaging. When I had the rig in view and could see Reggie's face I literally pulled him to me because of my intentions/will. At first he was asleep, but after I grabbed him, he jolted awake and instantly recognized me. We very quickly went through a synopsis of our lives since we last spoke. I told him I had to go now. I was sorry to cut it short, but I had another lucid dream that I had to wake up and record. Namaste. ******************************** The Lucid Dream Exchange is a quarterly newsletter featuring lucid dreams and lucid dream related articles and interviews. To subscribe to The Lucid Dream Exchange send a blank email to: TheLucidDreamExchange-subscribe@yahoogroups.com You can also check us out as we build our website at www.dreaminglucid.com o|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|o How Real is the Dream? © 2003 Linda Lane Magallón (Excerpted from "How To Fly") o|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|o Down through history, the most common classification of dreams is twofold. There's true dreams and false dreams, big dreams and little dreams, profound dreams and mundane dreams, dreams from the gate of ivory and dreams from the gate of horn. Among those on the extraordinary side of the twosome are dreams that seem real enough to be a world unto themselves. Such a dream world might be a place that looks the same as physical reality, in which the dreamer is immersed and through which he can travel. Especially if the world looks and feels vividly real, the dreamer might assume he does voyage in physical reality. He usually travels embodied, but can discover that his dream body is not visible to anyone who is awake. This type of world-encounter can be classified as an "out-of-body" experience. Most out-of-body experiences are assumed to occur in real time, concurrent with the time period of sleep or altered state. On the other hand, the world might be a place where events that happen there are later played out in the waking state. This characteristic also requires that world to appear like physical reality, although, because of the time-slip, it's usually considered to be a dream. A prophetic or precognitive dream. Some worlds do not appear as physical reality but are assumed to be as real as the material world. That's because they look and feel so real. In fact, they may look and feel even *more* real than the waking state. The scenery might glow or transmute into abstract patterns or light. The characters can seem to be independent entities. The intensity of sensations and emotions, ranging from terror to bliss, increase beyond normal levels of physical existence. Again, it's an experience usually considered to occur in linear time, same time as slumber. This is the spiritual journey. Out-of-body experience, prophecies, or spiritual journey, these are some versions of dream vivid enough to be considered real or true. Thus they are taken literally: you exist in a physical or spiritual reality; the people are real and who they seem to be. And the events have real consequences, albeit you are not roaming the physical world in your physical body when you experience them. Then there are the dreams in which the dreamer seems not to leave the bed at all. Because he does not relocate to another time or space, the dreamer might not even be aware he dreams. Reality comes to him, in the form of people alive or dead, or in non-human forms like angels or fairy folk. This is the world of the succubus attack and the alien abduction; sleep paralysis and the false awakening. Whether the dreamer is aware of being in an altered state of consciousness or not, it's the vivid reality of these sorts of experiences that is paramount. In terms of realness, they are phenomena at least on a par with the waking state. Sometimes much more so. The Assumptions of Waking Reality We spend a long time in the waking state, physical world, consensus reality, and over time we've developed a bucketful of assumptions about how "reality" is supposed to be and how it's supposed to act. Some of these we experience first-hand; even more we inherit from our culture. Most of the ideas are oblivious to us, because we have nothing with which we can contrast them. Until we go to sleep. Most folks have plenty of "little" dreams and they know that territory very well. It's pretty easy to distinguish between physical reality and the normative dream. When you wake up, that is! Thus, the "real" and "unreal" labels are simple to attach. Up until recently, the explanations of the "big" dream category has been the providence of people "special" enough to experience these things several times in a lifetime. That's a much smaller group, and as in any small group, there's a tendency towards introversion. And especially because these dreams have often been associated with the occult, there's a long established habit of having to keep quiet about them. Many different local traditions have developed as a result, but there's not been a lot of sharing and comparing among them. Rather, such experiences and ideas have been kept out of the popular limelight. Then, at the beginning of the '80's, the dream field turned a corner and a certain segment now know as the "dream community" became much more open and tolerant. The hidden traditions had a chance to come out of the shadows, and, indeed, they did. As a result, there was an explosion of information, much of it classified as "New Age," although this is a misnomer: a traditional idea may be new to us, but it can have a very long history. This growing conglomeration of ideas became available to the average person. Nowadays there's an awful lot of information out there, often contradictory. But there seem to be few ways of knowing what's accurate or applies to you. It's a case of "let the buyer beware." Why should you care if dreams are real or not? Or if any information about dreams is true? What's at stake? Well, how about your creative abilities, your physical and psychic health, your immortal soul or your sanity? How about your ability to live through a night without awakening soaked in terror? Or a day without wallowing in angst or sunk in depression? What about your ability to coexist in a world with people of different religious beliefs, beliefs whose genesis is a vision or dream? Beyond The Little Mermaid I once read an article wherein the author was matching astrological signs with popular folk tales. By extension, those very folk tales could be linked with astrological ages, so I paid special attention to the water-sign of Pisces (whose age we are leaving) and the air-sign of Aquarius (whose age we are entering). The folk tale selected for Pisces was The Little Mermaid. It's a story in which the little mermaid wishes she could become human, marry her Prince Charming and live happily ever after. All her energy is spent towards achieving this end. Now, I happen to think the mermaid is a metaphor for the dreamer. She already *is* human; she just forgot when she entered the sea of unconscious and had to reclaim that awareness to live on dry land. It's like entering into the dream state and forgetting there is another world in which we also dwell. In the folk tale for the Age of Aquarius, Prince Charming is all grown up. Or so he thinks. But as Emperor he's just as oblivious to reality, capable of being deceived. Along comes the Trickster who takes advantage of his inability to discriminate, and weaves a wild fantasy. And the Emperor is full of such charisma (he'd have to be, to lure the Little Mermaid out of her seabed), that whatever he believes, is what the populace believes. And what does he believe? That he's wearing clothes. He believes in the covering of reality. And he can't see beneath that layer. For a long time we all believed in the surface of physical reality. Then microscopes and telescopes were invented and our communal perspective was changed forever. We discovered there was another world beneath the surface: a world of bacteria, pollen and ultraviolet light. It's now comparatively easy to convince the Emperor that he contains a naked skeleton, a mass of muscles...and a conglomeration of atomic particles. But the world of dream lags, big time. We still going around blithely assuming that we have 20/20 inner vision and what we "see" in altered states is all there is to see. In fact, some dreamwork techniques depend on it. To interpret a symbol, we must first label it, turn it into a word. But nobody's asking: are we perceiving clearly enough to make the correct identification? Is it the right word to take to the dream dictionary or put through the mill of free association? Nope, it's hey, we're in the world of the unconscious, the real deal, and what you see is what you get. Manipulating our surface perceptions of this world is supposed to take us to the "depths" of ourselves. The Emperor may be wearing new clothes, but he's clothed in the same old assumptions. What if Freud and Jung were wrong? What if their presumptions about dreams stop us from further exploration? What if there's something underneath their underworld? I think there is. But I hope you don't agree with me just because I say so. I hope you don't agree with Freud and Jung just because they said so. I'd rather you go skinny dipping with the Emperor yourselves. It may not be possible to know directly if we travel to the seventh astral plane or the after-death state. But we can do reality checks on experiences that *seem* to be in physical reality and with dream characters that *seem* to be people still alive, because we can wake and compare them with their physical equivalents. We can also put our reporting capabilities to the test. How accurate is our memory of detail, judgment or psychic sensing abilities? By attempting to figure that out, we can develop a yardstick to use on the next person who comes along with a theory or method of dreams. Yep, reality checks. But not just on whether we dream. Not just on whether a dream is real or not. On whether any of the information about dreams is worth our while. http://members.aol.com/caseyflyer/flying/dreams.html (Dream Flights) o|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|o Dafumu Dreaming A View from the Bridge, June 2003 Jean Campbell o|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|o http://www.worlddreamspeacebridge.org/monthyupdates.htm Dreaming of peace and the interesting projects created as dreams come true happen daily on the Bridge. Join us. To learn more about The World Dreams Peace Bridge, go to our web site at http://www.worlddreamspeacebridge.org , or join the Peace Bridge discussion group by sending a post to worlddreams- subscribe@yahoogroups.com ------------------- What do the wolves sing as they race to the Reservoir? Dafumuuuuu! Years ago, the entity known as Seth told the members of psychic Jane Roberts' Monday night class that, when they dreamed together, they should dream "the city." This dream location, he told them, would become a beacon, a dream location for dreamers in the future. Quiet spontaneously, the members of The World Dreams Peace Bridge have begun to expand on this idea: first with dreams of the Bridge itself, then with the Reservoir suggested by May as a place for dropping in healing energy and taking some out when needed, and finally with the "dream answer animals" that have begun to populate our dreams. During the month of June, there have been several DaFuMu dreamings held, both for individuals and for Peace in the larger world. Many people have been invited to the healing place at the Reservoir. What is DaFuMu dreaming? In brief, the word is a combination of Japanese and Chinese characters meaning "big dream of good fortune." More information about DaFuMu can be found on the World Dreams web site at http://worlddreamspeacebridge.org/dafumu.htm Hands Across the Jordan The first DaFuMu dreaming this month was held for Chayim, whose Hands Across the Jordan Project he brought to dreamers on the Bridge last spring. Chayim introduced himself like this: Shalom: My name is Chayim Levin. I am 50 years old, married with 3 kids. Born in Chicago. I now live in Israel. I teach and study Torah and pray for peace in my land everyday. My friend Gary Stubbs in California and I have this idea to build a peace bridge over the Jordan River where people would gather to pray silently for peace. We are in the process of organizing and asking for letters of encouragement. If there is anything else you need to know you can ask or wait for the movie. All the Best, Chayim. The physical world bridge over the Jordan is scheduled to be built on November 16, 2004. Anyone who might want to help with this project can contact Chayim through The World Dreams Peace Bridge. DaFuMu dreaming can be done for individuals or for groups. All of us are in need of Peace. The second set of dreams in June was done for Kathy's friend Di, who has run afoul of the law in Australia and is in jail there. Many members of the Peace Bridge have dreamed the Reservoir. One example of this is a June 12 dream from Victoria, also from Australia: Thursday, 12 June 2003 The background music was "If We Try" by Don McLean. I was at the reservoir, the sand was soft and the silvery water tepid. Beyond the boulders was grass. It was in the grass that I began planting seeds from the charity apple trees. The trees grew at a phenomenal rate. Some apples were red, others green and still more were golden – ccoloured. Each branch had a single one of these colours on it, in multiples of 7 so that the word charity was spelled out repeatedly I was sitting with others, who were a little sad, but companionable just the same. We were thinking of ways to work with the word Charity. Come Here And Reach Into The Yonder Members of the Bridge speculated what the guards at the jail might think when, as they have to do, they read Di's mail. The following is part of a dream that Valley sent. I am told by the council of elders that this person is a part of the community and tribe, and as such he will be dealt with according to sacred law, and not the laws of man. Within sacred law, he will be dealt with in the circle, and taught about himself through the choices he has made. He will receive spiritual teachings and be forced to look at himself within, and not be isolated from the tribe. The tribe must take responsibility for teaching him these things, and not just lock him away and not deal with him. Sacred law works for the good of the whole, and no one is left behind. A third DaFuMu dreaming in June was held for a young boy in Turkey who has been diagnosed with Hodgkins Lymphoma. As he is undergoing chemotherapy, the group will continue to dream for him. Peace in the Middle East And finally, during the weekend of the Spring Solstice, after some amount of discussion, members of the Peace Bridge invited others to join them in a DaFuMu Dreaming for Peace in the Middle East. Prior to the invitations being sent out for this dream event, Juhani suggested that we look for a "Dream Answer Animal". Here is the invitation that resulted. (As this issue of Electric Dreams is being sent out during the DaFuMu dreaming, please feel free to join us.) From The World Dreams Peace Bridge A Call for a DaFuMu for the Middle East Can you dream up peace for the people of Palestine and Israel? The violence in the Middle East continues and escalates. It is not safe for women, children and men in many areas of Palestine and Israel. People cannot feel safe catching a bus, or walking in the street or even sitting in their own homes. They are denied the blissful peace that we all take for granted. So please, over this coming weekend (June 21/22) dedicate your dreams to peace in Israel, Palestine, and all the Middle East. Why not take the ideas of Juhani and Ralf below and make this DaFuMu (a dream of much good will) a special one indeed? Juhani's DAA search: The conflict is growing to be a hormone-based scream-show. I'll try to dream a Dream Answer Animal (DAA), a SYMBOL. An animal lives here and now. If there is a free path to a better life: It surely will take it without saying... but... yes but... first... then... after... maybe if... Wishing that a Dream Answer Animal pops up near a path, road or bridge. Then I'll ask you what it could symbolize. DAA's specialty to manage life situations could boost road map. By the way: I love that word "road map" -pragmatic Juhani Does anyone know who invented it? Literally? Next step could be a Reservoir meeting - to get the DAA there... somehow. The rest will be history. Ahaa...one spontaneous peace roamer made it. Next can follow the path... Just an idea. I'll try it. Anyone dreams an animal... just let me (us) know. Peace, Juhani Ralf's Lucid map I will remember to meet the WISE dream answer animal. I will remember to follow its path. I will remember to get lucid and ask for the meaning of that path I will invite that DAA to WDPB I will remember to enjoy the ecstatic awareness of being in a dream. Road map ... The map isn't the territory. Sometimes members of The World Dreams Peace Bridge dream in advance of the event. This is what happened for Joy, who sent the following email before the invitation went out: I thought last night that (rather than just lament my lack of time) I should dream a peace dream for this group. I woke up in the middle of the night after dreams of conflict, remembered, went back to sleep and woke happy in the morning from peaceful dreams with themes of cooperation. Then for a moment I drifted back into sleep as a dream-narrator voice asked, "But what about peace in the Middle East?" In the same moment I experienced a brief, vivid dream in which I was in my vegetable garden, finding in the soil an oblong, fist- sized rock which I tossed over the fence and out into the desert where it would be out of the way of the growing plants. I asked, "Is this for the Worlddreams group?" and in answer the same dreamlet repeated twice more, complete with a twitching of my physical arm as I flung the rock. So there you have it, I don't know why: Throwing a rock out of the garden. The first explanation that occurs to me is that this is a peaceable and helpful rock-throwing, as compared to lobbing them at one another. Joy Peace Train Workshop at Berkeley And finally, if you are attending the Association for the Study of Dreams conference next week, you will want to attend the Peace Trains and Dreams workshop scheduled for Monday at 7:30 p.m. with World Dreams members Jeremy Seligson, May Tung and Jean Campbell. Recently, when the question was asked, "What is a Peace Train?", Jeremy, who was the original dreamer of the Peace Train, responded with this statement: The train travels at whatever speed suits those it is visiting. It is fueled by imagination and good will. But more than anything else, it is fueled by love. Love for oneself and love for the other, importantly for those who are of a different culture than one's own, and especially for the children who will inherit our Earth. The fact that it is at all is more important than where it will end up. But its tracks lead all over the globe and perhaps one day all over the cosmos. It is adaptable. It will survive. It is your train, too, and you can get on it at anytime. Your friends and family are welcome, as well. Even your pets and plants are invited to get on - the mountains and the seas, even the stars. ------------------- The World Dreams Peace Bridge is a group that uses personal dreams for public world peace. You can find out more about the WDPB at http://www.worlddreamspeacebridge.org/ ------------------- o|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|o The Waves: 03. Star Trek to Sirius Spectral Moon (May 02 to May 29, 2003) © 2003 Nick Cumbo o|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|o The Waves is a newsletter reporting on the explorations of the Sea Life community. Sea Life, the main web forum at Dreampeace, aims to bring together a circle of dreamers from around the globe, collaborating in dreaming adventures, and 'dreaming with and for the earth itself' Link: http://www.dreamofpeace.net/ This moon, we'll be looking at our dreams of Sirius, and the system's relevance to life on Earth; From ancient knowledge of the system to key themes that arose in our adventures. Furthermore, we'll be reporting on our dreams as a way of a communicating on a galactic or transdimensional level. ------------------------------------------------------------------ Sirius is over 20 times brighter than our Sun, and over ten times larger. In fact, it's the brightest star in our sky. It's probably drawn your attention many a time. First find the constellation Orion, and locate the three bright stars in a row which form Orion's Belt. Then follow an imaginary line through these stars to Sirius. It is situated in the jaws of the great dog, Canis major constellation - and is thus known as the Dog Star. Sirius A: Sothis is also known as the blue-white star. This moon at Sea Life, we opened a new section of the forum 'Dreamspell', for discussion and dreams relating to the 13 Moon Calendar. In the first issue of The Waves, 'Dreaming Our Way to 2012', we touched very briefly on this topic, but failed to go into any significant level of detail. I was reminded of the important relationship the 13 Moon Calendar has to Sirius, in a recent dream, asking for guidance as to what to write in this issue. Did you know that the moon circles the Earth 13 times in one year? Strangely, enough our global standard calendar doesn't correspond to one natural cycle. Instead, we have a 12 month calendar, made of months of unequal measure. Confusing, isn't it? If you were to build a house, wouldn't you use a ruler of equal measure? Science, aims to model the world as best it can, yet we seem to have forgotten the science of time. Time, the atmosphere of the mind, a mentally perceived phenomenon, surely has a great impact on our day-to-day lives. What if, we were to replace this irregular system, with one that was found to be inherent within nature itself. The 13 Moon Calendar is based around a simple system of 13 moons of 28 days each, followed by a 'Day Out of Time', for global celebration, universal forgiveness, and artistic expression. It may sound radical but, in fact, such a reform was proposed by the League of Nations (forerunner of the United Nations) early in the 21st century, which considered three of 500 suggested entries. The 13 Moon, 28 Day calendar was by far the most popular - 98% of 1,300 businesses polled supported it. Unfortunately, the movement was met with strong resistance by the Vatican Church, and the project later distracted entirely by the outbreak of World War II. "This is not the first time people have used the 13 Moon Calendar. The Druids, The Incan's, Ancient Egyptians, Mayans, and Polynesians all kept a 13 moon, 28 day count. The Lakota Indians based theirs on the keya, or turtle since the turtle has 13 scales on it's back. Modern science has even discovered that dolphins keep time with 13 sets of 28 grooves along their teeth." (tortuga.com) One night, I decided to do a little dream incubation exercise, through visualisation of a magazine called "Shaman's Drum". The resulting dream gave me unexpected first hand experience of the phenomenon. "I'm on a road, which leads up a hill to my home. At some point my perspective changes. I am able to experience perception, as though I am the Earth itself. I see a 3-dimensional vector, running up across the contours of the hill. I immediately become aware that the land itself is understood to be an illusion by the earth, but is also a kind of focusing device. I become aware that 13 senses or dimensions are accessible at any point along the vector. It seems one is already selected. I see an image of a series of 13 tabs, and the name of the choice that is selected. Each of these has a unique energy attached to it, and I get to experience one selection for myself, within the dream. Afterwards, I am walking up the hill, and I get the feeling people are wondering how I could possibly hope to succeed in changing the calendar system." Obviously, at this point I still felt a little uncomfortable with how people might react to my efforts to enhance people's awareness of the significance of the calendar system we use. However, I also felt a genuine belief in the importance of moving to this new system. I couldn't deny the wise words of Mahatma Gandhi, "one must be the change we wish to see in this world". To literally resonate according to a standard of harmony, synchronized with the Moon, the Earth, the Sun, the Galaxy, is taking a conscious evolutionary step into what is called "galactic culture". This is where Sirius comes into the calendar. On July 26th of every year there is a heliacal rising of the star, Sirius (meaning it rises with the sun in the morning). The 13 Moon Calendar begins on this day, so it synchronizes with a galactic event that actually happens every solar year. Reading through the messages from the World Dreams Peace Bridge, I was surprised to find that the dream of Jeremy's that gave birth to the magnificent Peace Train project, which now travels the world, occurred on July 26th 2002 (the new year). Using the Harmonic Module, a key component of the calendar, we can discover the unique energies attributed to this date: "Galactic Tone: 10. Planetary: Perfect, Produce, Manifestation", "Solar Seal: 09. Red Moon: Purifies Universal Water." Fitting, aren't they? Once you began writing down the events and feelings of each day, the energies at work pretty quickly make themselves evident. Dallas had come about the Sea Life forum through the Planetary Art Network; a forum all about the 13 Moon Calendar. He could barely wait to dream about shooting himself out to Sirius: "I had a dream that I was walking through what seemed to be a community center and it was crowded. There were people standing around talking and some laying on the floor napping. I was handing out 13 Moon Calendars with purple covers. I remember having the feeling that I wasn't going to be able to get many people to take these calendars and before long people started accepting them with no problem and in fact coming to me and asking for them." Obviously, this wasn't just an ordinary community center Dallas had entered. It was a community of dreamers! His dream seemed to suggest, that despite all his initial concerns, it wouldn't be long before people would begin to recognise the value of the calendar system, and in fact begin to seek out knowledge about it. We need to remember that "Time is the universal factor of synchronisation." In the words of Jacob, who's been working with the 13 Moon calendar movement, "To synchronise is to be within one's Time, like being on your game, feeling good, going with the flow." For some of you, the following information has been synchronised to reach you now: ------------------------------------------------------------------ THE DOGON TRIBES The Dogon Tribes of Northern Africa, have maintained a system of knowledge about the Sirius Star System for over 5000 years. Without the aid of any advanced instruments, the Dogon have known that Sirius A: Sothis has an invisible companion. Their name for Sirius B, consists of the word for star, tolo, and po, the name of the smallest seed known to them. "The Dogon claim it to be the smallest thing there is, yet also so heavy 'that all earthly beings cannot lift it'. The Dogon, thus attribute to the star it's three principal qualities as a white dwarf, it's smallness, heaviness, and whiteness. They go on to say that the star's orbit is elliptical, with Sirius A at one internal linkfocus of the ellipse, that the orbital period is 50 years (the actual figure is 50.04 plus or minus .09 years), and that the star rotates on its own axis. (Robert Temple - The Sirius Mystery) What makes this story all the more fascinating is that Sirius B was only discovered by the scientific community a mere 50 years ago! How did they do it? The Dogon say that their astronomical knowledge was given to them by the Nommos, amphibious beings sent to earth from the Sirius star system for the benefit of humankind. The name comes from a Dogon word meaning 'to make one drink'. This is part of their oral tradition, and they have even made paintings showing Sirius as a double star. Simply put, the Dogon have long made a practice of worshipping Sirius. ------------------------------------------------------------------ DREAMING LIKE AN EGYPTIAN The Dogon claim that they learned of these things when they resided in the land of ancient Egypt, roughly 5000 years ago. Interestingly, the Ancient Egyptians also held Sirius to be of especially sacred significance. Initially, I knew very little about this connection. It wasn't until information that I received, upon waking from an incubated dream, that I was stunned into researching it further. In my dream, I had been introduced to someone with a very unique name. Upon waking, my mind came together for a moment with what appeared to be a higher being. I could feel the presence of these thoughts, as though a page in a book. Beginning with the words "Grandfather" and "Isis", it read like an invitation, "As you exist on the sixth level, you can certainly do more there than anywhere else". Though the page continued, I chose to wake, since I wanted to retain what little I had been told. Bewildered, I resumed my sleep. The next dream seemed to make the meaning of the sixth level quite clear. I found myself walking up my driveway. Arranged along the driveway were a series of books, with titles like 'fourth level', 'fifth level', ascending until I reached the top. There was a certain feeling attached to noticing them there at my feet; a recognition that these 'levels' were states of mind which one could not simply understand by reading a book. In fact, the recognition came through with such clarity, that I was shocked into lucidity. The next morning, I found to my amazement that to the Ancient Egyptians, Sirius was astronomically the foundation of their entire religious system. It was the star of Isis, sister and consort of the god Osiris, who appeared in the sky as Orion. Further, I discovered that their Grandfather went by the name of Ra (the sun god) Though, I don't believe I managed to reach the 'sixth level', this short experience opened me to a much wider source of information about the system. In his wonderful article 'Dreaming Like An Egyptian', Robert Moss details the relationship between both the Egyptian's worship of Sirius, and their advanced conscious dreaming practises: "The dream guides of ancient Egypt knew that the dream journey may take the traveler to the stars – specifically to Sothis or Sirius, the "moist land" believed by Egyptian initiates to be the source of higher consciousness, the destination of advanced souls after death, and the home of higher beings who take a close interest in Earth matters" Another thing I'd noticed in my early attempts to visit Sirius in dreams, was the presence of a black dog. This of course seemed important, given the connection between Sirius' name as the 'Dog Star'. As it turned out, Anubis, most often portrayed by the Egyptians as a human figure with the head of a jackal or black dog, is in fact the watchdog of Sirius. During the project, I began to use the image of 'Anubis' as a visual gateway for my own journeys to Sirius. In one experience, I was awoken by the middle of the night by vibrations which began at the top of my head. This was then followed by an announcement from above, by a female narrator, who advised me to 'Visualise a red and orange car". I was assured that using this technique, I'd have no need to worry about shady or creepy entities guarding the paths. It felt as though a special gateway to the star system had been set up. Unfortunately, once again, I was unsuccessful in my attempt to enter it. ------------------------------------------------------------------ BLUE STAR KACHINA Another theme that quickly became apparent in our adventures to Sirius, was the significance of a vibrant blue energy. From glowing blue clouds to Albert's dream of flying an X32 (a prototype spacecraft) with a blue belly and white top, the blue energy certainly seemed to make it's importance felt. It began with Kate's dream, in which she decided to visualise the words Sirius Star System on a piece of paper. "First I dreamed about an object that had figured in my mundane life today; a blue propane cylinder with a gas cooking ring attached to the top. In the dream someone is showing me one of these, it turns out there were 2 when I thought there was only one. The one I am shown appears very sharply defined and is a very vivid blue. I comment to the person that it is a much improved model to the one I have in mundane life. Next I am walking up a hill, following 3 people from my ordinary peace group". I was instantly reminded of an especially powerful dream from roughly a year ago, in which I'd received what I felt to be a very special transmission from the stars. Walking along a path, in the night sky, my attention had been suddenly drawn high up in the sky. There I saw a huge blue and white 'spaceship', which gave off a powerful ray of blue energy. The energy itself was so rich, that I had immediately been awoken into lucidity. Attached to the back of the spaceship, were the words '2012 it is their last superstar'. Upon focusing on this, I witnessed the message change to '2012 it is their next superstar'. The message seemed to be directed at all the people of Earth. The ship disappeared onto the horizon, and I was left with an incredibly overwhelming sense of hope. With regards to the blue gas cooker, Kate added, "I thought if it was on and you turned it sideways it could symbolise a spaceship." This type of contact is perhaps best expressed by the words of Jimmy, a shaman whom I know online: "Suppose, that communication on a galactic or transdimensional level was not physical and not based on radio or TV transmission, but was instead a mental or astral experience. To those of us who have the experience, this makes sense; but to researchers who do not, it's total BS. I do believe that galactic contact is of this type, and that shamans are traditionally the people chosen to communicate beyond this world, with real beings in other worlds and times, in the shamanic ways. Suppose then, that instead of creating cover memories we are instead using natural human methods to try to confront and understand a strange experience of contact. This contact is with energy, in astral terms or even in other terms, and because of the way our minds work we tend to interpret this energy visually. We see strange things and we know they are not precisely accurate, but behind those visualizations is only something strange and new, and not something terrible. We simply haven't seen it before so we give it shape that is new and different." In a later dream, I was shown a picture, with a large black background, that I assumed to represent outer space. "There is a whole area with these colourful orange bead like shapes – which seem to represent other stars. On the right I am directed to another area. I am told this is what lies "beyond the known universe". The shapes I see on this part of the page were of a vibrant blue colour." I felt that by the 'known universe', my helper was referring to our physical reality. It seemed to suggest that our experiences, related to an intelligence present in a deeper reality. As those interested in the Mayan calendar might know, the years surrounding 2012 were believed to be a time of global change. 2012, the end of a 5125-year cycle of time, signified to the Maya, the birth of a new world. However, it wasn't until very recently that the meaning to my dream could be further decoded. By chance, I'd ventured into a trash and treasure shop in a small town, while on holiday. Noticing a friend rifling through the record collection, I decided to have a look myself. And there was the connection, a record labelled "Jesus Christ: Superstar". I've never followed any specific religion, but I couldn't help feeling that therein lay the hidden meaning to my dream of 2012. Interestingly, the star itself is well known for it's blue-white appearance. Furthermore, the Hopi name for Sirius is 'Blue Star Kachina'. An ancient Hopi Indian prophecy states, "When the Blue Star Kachina makes its appearance in the heavens, the Fifth World will emerge". ------------------------------------------------------------------ A TRIANGULAR GATEWAY Blue energy wasn't the only important them to arise from our adventures to Sirius. The first sign came with a conscious dream from Mekenzie. "I look up at the sky. It's night-time and the sky shows a lot of galaxies and planets. It looks so cool. Also there are strange glowing blue clouds with only one opening… a triangle-shaped opening. "Guides, I ask you to allow me to do the project," I ask mentally. Suddenly the triangle-shaped opening moves toward me, opening a warp-like tunnel toward me so I start to fly. All of a sudden, WHOOSH! I'm moving at an extreme speed. "WHOOOOOOAAA!" I think as I let the warp-like tunnel to guide me. I feel the winds against me and I become a light traveling faster than light. My vision, unfortunately, starts to fade into hypnogogic-like imagery, but I still can feel everything vividly. I feel myself hitting the black hole… the end of the warp tunnel. I sense that I'm there in the "dog" system." Unfortunately, Mekenzie's dream didn't remain stable, and eventually she ended up waking. What makes this interesting however, is that the Dogon believed the Nommos (the intelligent beings who provided them with information on Sirius) to have arrived in a ship with three legs. In combination with Mekenzies description of triangular-shaped opening, it seems to reference the number three. The next night, I went to sleep thinking about this connection. In a light meditative state, I began to visualise the 'triangular gateway' to assist in my dream incubation. Slipping into a light trance, I suddenly received the impression that the triangular gateway and the design of the pyramids were in fact connected. This was made obvious by the instantaneous emerge of a cross- sectional view of the pyramids. The next morning, I woke up, and began chatting about this event to Mekenzie. She seemed very surprised. Though, we're on different sides of the earth, she had witnessed exactly the same thing, as she lay awake about 12 hours earlier. Eager to discover more about this phenomenom, I was happily surprised to find an internet resource with information about the Winter Triangle: "Sirius is also connected to two other stars, Procyon, in Canis Minor and Betelguese, in Orion. These stars represent a triangular gateway, the ancients referred to as Heaven's Gate (not the cult, and was thought to be the place where souls enter this dimensional reality). According to The Pleiadian Agenda, by Barbara Hand Clow, "Sirius holds the 6th Dimensional geometrical light body of Earth in form." The book further indicates that the ancient Egyptians came from Sirius teaching temple technology to earthlings for the express purpose of also teaching us about sacred geometry. She goes onto describe the Sirians as "magnificent feline gods" responsible for building the Great Pyramid and Sphinx as geometric portals to the stars. These portals have been primarily dormant for a long time. However, several major Celestial events over the past several years alert us to the reactivation of these portals." (Shamanic Astrology) Meanwhile, Mekenzie had another conscious dream to report: "I see a strangely glowing dark-blue landscape so I glide down and land. I look around, seeing how humanoids (they looks exactly like humans, but their aura and everything is different somehow) are working together to make an obstacle for someone. Perhaps a game? I walk around, noticing that they're staring at me. I try to pretend not to notice. All of a sudden, I get a vivid painful burning sensation on my right palm. I scream in pain while I look at my palm and there is a new scar shaped like a triangle. When the burning sensation fades out, it is very sensitive to touch. I realize that I'm supposed to do the Sirius project, but I get a bit annoyed by this scar so I try to heal it by focusing my green energy toward it. All I can do is making a green lightening coming out from my left hand. No matter how hard I try, I can't seem to make my scar disappear. Suddenly, I thought, "Maybe there is a higher being trying to tell me something?" Awaking from a series of dreams after these earlier events, I found imprinted into my mind the knowledge of a similar triangle to be found here on Earth. I immediately understood one of these points to be a mountain. It also appeared that these three points were to be found in North America, and in some way correlated to the individual stars of the Winter Triangle. Hopefully we can discover more about this 'triangle' as time passes. ------------------------------------------------------------------ INTELLIGENT LIFE In many of my journeys, I was very interested to explore knowledge of intelligent life connected with Sirius. Though I understand that it tends to discredit those who mention such experiences, I thought I would go on and do it anyway, in the hope that is of value to somebody out there. I'll begin with a dream in which I found myself on a train, which followed the path of a river: "I'm looking out through the window, and see two Aboriginal boys walking along the riverbank. They seem to be going off to school. I see the older brother, perhaps of 7-8 years old, helping his younger brother along. They look really cute together. I see them climbing up a wall, and just as they are about to edge over it, I seem to continue their ascent. I feel vibrations echoicing through my head, reminding me of my physical body, but I'm now lucid. I climb higher into the sky, moving with the vibrations, I announce my intent, saying something like "I wanna meet Sirian intelligences" - hoping to meet beings from another star system. I feel myself emerging from blackness into a new scene, where I find myself atop a computer desk-chair, bobbing in the water. I'm in a kind of rectangular tank. Everything's still a bit blurry, and I'm trying to find someone to speak to. I see letters roll out through the darkness, one by one, reading 'Dictionary'. I initially assume this to mean that what I'm saying is not being understood, by anyone around me. I decide to venture out through the murky waters, noticing other computer chairs in the water too. I'm even a little scared, since I'm concerned that some creature could leap out from below. It's a bit eery. Then the dream starts fading." Upon waking from the dream, I was left with an impression that the tank itself was very similar to my initial dream of the 'Sea Life' forum, in which I'd seen sea life mutating and evolving in a tank. It occurred to me that perhaps the word 'dictionary' was an indication, that the scene was quite symbolic in it's appearance. Was this dream suggesting that 'Sirian Intelligence' is already present at the Sea Life forum? It seemed so. After all, our members probably would spend a significant amount of their time on computer chairs communicating online. I wasn't only the one who started dreaming of similar themes. Albert, a member of my personal dream team, reported on his own experience: "There is this book in my hands, and I turn the pages. I know it is about aliens and I don't want to look through it. I see a diagram of a person and an alien superimposed, but it's a simple stroke of a paintbrush representing a person's back and arm extended, while the aliens' is a limb extending from below in another color. I get the information that our (genetic?) makeup can be found in some distant star system. It then explains how aliens originally came down, and I see a picture of some small spaceship landing out near a forest, but one of 'our antennas' changed frequency and 'immobilized' the ship on earth (causing the aliens to retreat I think). The change of frequency was just a person standing out near a field." Finally we had Mekenzie's experience, which read alot like an amazing sci-fi story. Finding herself on a snow mountain, Mekenzie was soon reminded of her goal: ""Will you, my guide… or whoever, draw the triangle for me so I can stand on it in order to be transported to Sirius or Sirius- related places?" To my surprise, a young girl walks over and then draws the triangle in the snow. "I could have done that myself if I had thought of that." I think while I watch her walking away as if nothing has happened. "Umm…" I think, just shoving it off and walking into the drawn triangle. I look up into the sky and announce, "May the triangle take me to where it wants me to be!" Nothing happens. I look around patiently, having a lot of faith in the drawn triangle that I'm standing on. Suddenly, I pass out, finding myself in the spacecraft. I'm the driver. I inspect what I feel is the earth… way before we, humans, were born. I see a lot of high-technology buildings being destroyed because there is a HUGE war going on between the 'aliens' and the first generation humans (super humans). I continue to steer, trying to find out more about it because it's really unexpected. I arrive at the huge camping ground that is the aliens' side. I enter, noticing that there are many guards there so I tell them, "I come in peace." To my surprise, they trust me. I meet the Queen. Their faces are painted in green and purple colors. They appear like humans, but I have a feeling that they're doing that to confuse the super humans because they don't know that the 'aliens' are actually aliens who are trying to help them. Anyway, the Queen asks me about my intention and why I am here. I tell her that I am attempting to learn more about Sirius and that I ended up being here. I promise her that I come in peace. In fact, I offer to do the swearing ritual (I don't know how I already knew about it) so they'll be assured that I come in peace. The Queen agrees and a guard handles me the sword. I have to do the sword in the order of left, middle, and then right while I state, "I come in peace, I swear." After I do that part, I am to walk on the broken gems (you can compare it to glass) and coals except that they're not like coals that we have now. I walk and then I approach the hive with angry bees, yet they don't bite me. I finish my ritual and it appears that the Queen has already been killed by one of the super humans. The guards are looking at me in a weird way like they're trying to decide if I should be a leader. I'm like, "No, don't look at ME!" The dream eventually blurs into nothing. Well it's nice to know that the 'aliens' insisted on peace in any case. While I certainly can't confirm any of the details offered by any of our dreams, I find it very interesting that all three seemed to relate that humans did in fact have a connection to Sirian intelligence. However, our experiences appear to have raised more questions, than they answered. My hope is merely that they can act as a small piece of the puzzle, for those interested in exploring the Sirius mystery further. Rather than assuming that 'alien' cultures will only communicate to us through our known physical methods, let us consider for a moment, that they may use a means not as well recognised, yet equally accessible; our very own minds. ------------------------------------------------------------------ Stay tuned next moon for the results of our research from our 'Journey to Mt Shasta'. In the meantime dreamers are invited to contact Nick (Explora), with their dream experiences of any of the themes mentioned in this piece. We're always looking for new people to join us in our adventures, so if it sounds like fun, please consider the offer. Email: explora@dreamofpeace.net Forum: http://www.dreamofpeace.net/sealife ------------------------------------------------------------------ RESOURCES 13 Moon Calendar Change Peace Movement Link: http://www.tortuga.com/ 13 Moon Natural Time Calendar Link: http://www.13moon.com Sirian Messenger: Link: http://www.sirianmessenger.com/ Dreaming Like an Eygptian Link: http://wwww.mossdreams.com/egyptian.htm Great Dreams: The Dog Star Link: http://www.greatdreams.com/dogstar.htm Shamanic Astrology Link: http://www.shamanicastrology.com/ -------- o|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|o DreamWork for Everyday Life Susan Clemons o|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|o I have been an active dreamer for many years and am currently involved in several online dream groups. It seems to me that the kind of community that is beginning to occur in dream groups is the kind of community I would like to have in my every day life. I began to ask myself questions about how to convert my ideas about dream communities into ideas for creating everyday community. Here are some of the questions I asked myself: What are the main ingredients of a dreaming community and what value do they have? How can we use this to create a healthy and thriving sense of community in our daily lives? How does this translate into the community of everyday life? I used the guidelines from my current dream groups which are based on ideas from a number of sources including guidelines from Jeremy Taylor on dreams as well as the ethics statement of the ASD. Then I took the results I had written out and replaced the word dreamer with individual and the word dream/s with the words experience or community. Guidelines for Sharing Experience: Someone tells of an experience that has significance to them. Members of the group ask questions to be certain they have as clear of an image of the experience as possible. Each person in the group takes the experience as if it were their own and is happening to them in the present. (close up 1st person point of view - present experience) Each person examines the symbols within the experience for personal meaning and writes them out. (gets some distance, examination of meaning) Each person shares their own experience and meaning with group. Individual can (but doesn't have to) share significance and impact of shared information. Guidelines for Creating Meaningful Community (creative use of Jeremy Taylor's dream guidelines): One All experiences speak a universal language and come in the service of health and wholeness. There is no such thing as a "bad experience" -- only experiences that sometimes take a dramatically negative form in order to grab our attention. Two Only the individual can say with any certainty what meanings his or her experience may have. This certainty usually comes in the form of a wordless "aha!" of recognition. This "aha" is a function of memory/instinct, and is the only reliable touchstone of individual work. Three There is no such thing as an experience with only one meaning. All experiences are "overdetermined," and have multiple meanings and layers of significance. Four No experience comes just to tell you what you already know. All experiences break new ground and invite you to new understandings and insights. Five When talking to others about their experiences, it is both wise and polite to preface your remarks with words to the effect of "if it were my experience...," and to keep this commentary in the first person as much as possible. This means that even relatively challenging comments can be made in such a way that the individual may actually be able to hear and internalize them. It also can become a profound psycho-spiritual discipline -- "walking a mile in your neighbor's moccasins." Six All group participants should agree at the outset to maintain anonymity in all discussions of community work. In the absence of any specific request for confidentiality, group members should be free to discuss their experiences openly outside the group, provided no other individual is identifiable in their stories. However, whenever any group member requests confidentiality, all members should agree to be bound automatically by such a request. Community Ethics Statement (creative use of the ASD ethics) We support an approach to community that promotes meaningful sharing and respects the individuals dignity and integrity, and which recognizes the individual as the decision-maker regarding the significance of what is being shared within the community. Systems of community that assign authority or knowledge of significant meanings to someone other than the individual can be misleading, incorrect, and harmful. Ethical community relationships helps the individual work with his/her own vision, feelings, and associations, and guides the individual to more fully experience, appreciate, and understand themselves as well as the community and the relationships of each to the other. Every community may have multiple meanings, and different techniques may be reasonably employed to touch these multiple layers of significance. An individual's decision to share or discontinue sharing significant meaning should always be respected and honored. The individual should be forewarned that unexpected issues or emotions may arise in the course of meaningful sharing. Information and mutual agreement about the degree of privacy and confidentiality are essential ingredients in creating a safe atmosphere for meaningful community. We recognize and respect that there are many valid and time- honored community traditions. We invite and welcome the participation of individuals from all cultures. There are social, cultural, and transpersonal aspects to a community of meaningful experience. In this statement we do not mean to imply that the only valid approach to community focuses on the individuals personal life. Our purpose is to honor and respect the individual as well as the community itself, regardless of how the relationship between the two may be understood. Values I Have Found: --Promotes effective listening skills. --Promotes effective imaging skills. --Promotes effective communication skills. --Turns life back into both a personal and a shared experience of significant meanings rather than an impersonal mechanical function of survival of the fittest. --Honors and respects both the individual and the group (regardless of age, sex, race, religion, etc.). --Creates dynamic, interactive process --Promotes health and well being --Promotes organic growth for both the individual and the community (interactive creativity). --Promotes ability to live life in the present while honoring the past and creating a future. How would this translate into our daily lives? Have regularly scheduled meetings within family, community, and business for the purpose of sharing our experiences and meanings following these guidelines. Example of how it works from a discussion in my Bohm Dialogue web group that revolved around ideas of coherence/congruence (or lack of) in thought and the role time plays in this: D writes: "....... Tech could refer to those relationships that do not create incoherence/incongruence......" P writes: Can you please give us an example of any tech that does not create incoherence/incongruence? D writes: Perhaps it is not possible to name a tech that does not create incoherence/incongruence. Perhaps using the word tech itself is inappropriate. Could we say that there are some experiences of time that do not need to be incoherent. Boiling water for tea doesn't need to be incoherent but it could be. I mean, the reason why I am boiling water may be incoherent. Thought has the capacity to generate incoherence/incongruence even with relationships that need not necessarily be so. So my sense would be that the answer to your question is that it is incoherent/incongruent to divide things this way into tech and psyche since I wonder if it is possible to draw a line between them? Susan writes: I have been thinking about your story of boiling water and making tea and how that relates to our experience of time. Also, about the idea of whether or not it is incoherent/incongruent. I found myself examining your story in the way I would examine a dream and came up with several thoughts about it. If this were a dream, here is how I would examine it: First I would imagine that it is an actual experience I am having and that it is happening right now. Then I would become the observer to see what understanding I have of the experience in terms of the symbols. So, here's what happened when I lived the experience of boiling water and making tea and then observed myself doing this. I am in an area for receiving nutrients and nurturing. I notice a feeling in my body of emptiness that tells me I have a desire/need for performing the ritual of tea making to change that feeling from one of emptiness to fulfillment and satisfaction (being filled full of nutrients/nurturing). I have stories in my mind of having performed this ritual in the past that guides me in performing the ritual now. What ever story I bring to mind of what occurred when I performed this ritual in the past determines my inner experience of performing this ritual now. One of those stories is of being an adult who is simply taking out a container which I fill full of water and place on a fire until the water comes to a boil. Another one of the stories is of being a child having my mother teach me the ritual. In this story my mother first complains in a stern voice that I have taken out the wrong container for the water and her expression says she is angry with me for this. I notice my body begins to stiffen up and my movements become slow and clumsy as I become aware of her expression. When I begin to fill the container with water I hear my mother tell me in that stern voice that I am putting too much water in the container and I am being much too slow and clumsy. She comes over and jerks the container out of my hand. I am surprised by this and don't let go of the container immediately so there is a struggle with the container and water gets spilled on the floor. My mother shouts at me in an angry voice that I am stupid and she continues to finish the ritual of making tea on her own. I cower in the corner hoping I will never be asked to make tea again. By the time I finish telling myself the stories the tea is made. Here's what the observer part of myself noticed: I learned to associate nurturing with abuse and so continue to abuse myself in nurturing situations by continuing to tell myself the stories. This is where the incongruence/incoherence comes in. Abuse is not congruent with nurturing. In this instance drinking the tea will satisfy my body's desire for nutrients but will not satisfy my more instinctive desire for nurturing. Then I thought about the tech part. It seems to me that the first story of the adult simply paying attention to the mechanical operation of making tea is what you are referring to as the tech part. The mechanical act of the adult did not satisfy my instinctive desire for nurturing any more than the second story. Satisfying the desire for nurturing requires having a coherent/congruent story of nurturing. This may have been what brought up the second story (an association of mothers with nurturing). And then I thought about the time factor. Even with the tech version there must be a story (past experience) to tell me how to make tea. So it would seem to me that the trick in being coherent/congruent is in learning how to create a coherent/congruent story of how to do something and then creating an association to bring up that story when you need it. And the trick with time is to understand that it is a story (something outside of a constricted time period) that we are telling ourselves. I think this is one of the most valuable things I have learned from doing dream work, the value of myth and story and what they really are. I have noticed that in doing dream work we are sharing our experience of myth and story as well as learning how to create more effective myths and stories together. Perhaps this is the true meaning of communion/community. Stories are the secret reservoir of values: Change the stories individuals or nations live by and tell themselves, and you change the individuals and nations. Ben Okri, Nobel Prize for Literature Susan Clemons Susan.Joy@worldnet.att.net o|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|o How Will Androids Dream of Electric Sheep? A conversation about androids and dreaming Richard Wilkerson and the ASD Online Community o|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|o How will machines dream? In the January 97 issue of 21-C: Scanning the Future, Darren Tofts asks a variety of people if androids will dream. Tofts writes, "Trapped within the enigma of Philip K. Dick's query [Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?] is the conundrum of being. For within his machine's struggle for humanity is our own philosophical quest for the nature of existence and the acknowledgement of the self." However, the answers received from the digiteratti were banal and dull, hopelessly stuck on the question of whether or not machines can be conscious or not. Clearly the respondents knew very little about dreaming as a process, subjectively or objectively, and cared even less. So, let's fast forward through this question and just assume the positive, that some machines in the future will be dreaming, either by design, necessity or mutated nature. Now he question shifts from "Why?" to "How?." "How will androids dream of electric sheep?" This question was posed to the ASD public bulletin board and I'm including the conversations that followed. Some typos corrected. ----------------- From: Juhani You'll get a Farm and City android version: A Farm android doesn't like long rain periods and there is a long way to nearest recharging & repair spot. Dream derivates... hmm, creator and sheep (literally? I learn so anyway). A Shepard does pendle between master and mission. So I think a farm android dreams tic tac sound/s against rainy gray background. There is 8 seconds between every tic and tack. Tic is the creator and Tac the sheep. The City android has metallic background sound dreams. A neon pink background and continuous sound, mix of traffic and drilling machine. These 2 voices rotate around the android head every 4th second. Traffic sound symbolizes creator and drilling machine, electric sheep. Android dream begins and ends with a tiny flash. ---------------------------------- From : Jean Along with Steve Aizenstadt (hope that's the correct spelling), I believe that everything in the world is dreaming now, even right now...like the trees, the whales, the flowers, my dogs. So, if there should in some future be androids, I suspect they would dream of other androids, of attaining android joys and pleasures, and of maybe even having an android universe --------------------------------- From: Harry Bosma http://www.mythwell.com How would an android work anyway? I have no idea. However, I can imagine something for an intelligent computer. Not to insult the android, but I think that the first prototypes of an android will be little more than a computer with add-ons. I doubt that computers will have visual dreams. That humans have visual dreams only reflects the emphasis on visual information in our society. Blind people have more tactual sensory dreams. I imagine that some animals could dream about smells. So, what kind of information is important for intelligent computers? It would be statistics. Or, to translate to a form we humans prefer: charts. I don't mean the nonsense charts that the Terminator from the Terminator movies supposedly sees when looking for a target to eliminate. That isn't dreaming, that is just information retrieval. I mean charts about patterns between previously unrelated information. The computer would be dreaming 100% of the time. Most of the time dreaming is a background process, unless the computer is in hibernation mode. In that case, there are no other distracting processes going on, and the full capacity can be used to generate and compare charts. The computer is asleep and dreaming. The analogy to charts is perhaps somewhat misleading. We humans usually work with two dimensional charts, or occasionally one with three dimensions. The computer does not have such limitations . It might dream about charts far beyond our imagination. In a way, there may be some resemblance to people dreaming of mandala's or other structured forms. One last note. Just as trees have sloooowww dreams, too slow for us humans to tap into, computers may have fast dreams, even very fast. So, not only the content and style of dreaming is different, but also the speed. At least with the type of dreams described above. --------------------------------- From: Laura Atkinson (Cover Artist for July Electric Dreams) I am not a theorist, but a visual artist...so I saw the answer better than I could explain it. Attached is my computer art rendition……read on: :/command start beep beep beep command:/ process sleep beep beep beep begin counting sheep paradoxical sleep beep beep beep a:/ mock setting sun dream of a one (1) beep beep beep supercomputer hero dream of a zero (0) beep beep beep totally binary dream program refinery :/command end ------------------------- From: Goshengolly First of all, I do not know precisely how you define "electric sheep," so I am going to have to guess.. Should you refine your definition, Richard, I will see if my answer needs "tweeking." But, assuming that electric sheep are, let's say, similar to sheep as we know it here on Earth, then here's my first answer: Imagine this: A supercomputer programmed with all known information about the species, "Electric Sheep." The supercomputer is also programmed with all the knowledge that we have to date about humanity, science, etc. It is a "Super Brain," and it is turned on at night, to process questions we have about "Sheep," (and/or anything else we should like to ask it). The querying process begins to unfold, and visual images begin to stream forth on the computer screen. An android programs the Super Brain computer with questions such as: "show me an electric sheep in wolf's clothing," and it produces an image based on its knowledge base. We then see how ridiculous an electric sheep looks in wolf's clothing. So the reverse question is asked, and we see the wolf in electric sheep's clothing. Now, let's say we want to study the electric sheep's behavior given various circumstances, such as asking: How will the sheep respond to a UFO "fly over," by an Android, while it is out grazing in the fields? Then, the Super Brain computer could dream of all the known behaviors of a sheep, which it has logged into its database, to determine how a sheep might behave if disturbed by some outside influence. Now this is all assuming that an Android asks questions while it sleeps, about Sheep. Maybe the Android is not asking any questions, and just wants a good nights sleep. But before sleep, the Android sees a commercial on Galactic Television, that includes a fleeting image of Sheep, and turns on his "Super Brain," and finds that its "random data processor from the day" is also turned on, so all of the days images are the only data being processed during its sleep. So now, the Android is witnessing only "day residue," and sheep keep occurring as a recurring theme. Suddenly, the android focuses its attention on the recurrence of sheep, and sends a signal to its database on sheep to provide input, through biofeedback and the lucid dream light technology, and the Android now explores all of the random knowledge it has about electric sheep, querying the dream, as it interacts with the database..... Okay, you get the picture(s). Yes, the android dreamer is coming, I suspect, but will it be a more useful tool, than the human dreamer? I seriously doubt it.... -------------------------------------------- Anonymous One of my favorite AI stories from last year was a robot experiment where robots were programmed to behave as predator and prey to collect energy. One strangely appeared to run away. Maybe it was seeking a "higher power". When we think about how ourselves are put together, it sounds pretty mechanical. Neural networks growing, we learn what is most effective. We also have physiological needs, emotions and wants. I wonder if a robot "wants" to get away to replenish it's energy. Why do we want? Maybe prey and predator trials will become archetype dream patterns for robots as they record hunting for the sun. -------------------------------------------- From: Mr Coffee Based on a man They'll dream if they can Of bigger hard drives And loads more RAM. While dreaming of streaming the bits and the bytes Their humming and thrumming through lucid delights They'll join Jean and the others The HP's and Brothers For group dreaming sessions And incubation lessons Soon those droids will join this board To ask advice on what they stored While sleeping and dreaming and silently screaming In nightmares where droids with armor gleaming Stood on internet paths with binaries steaming Ok, let me stop that now, I could go on forever. It does though bring up the thought that it would be interesting to see what AVI video's of their dreams would look like, presuming they could store them. -------------------------------------------- Juhani Digital 0 is probably she and 1 could be he? About basic hardware: I am not sure how much an android computer brain differs from those used in desktops? Shepard android must be loyal to it's master and use shield to protect electric sheep (still literally sheep). Day residues must mirror relation between master-shepard android-esheep. Recharge point worry and surprise factors should leave some tracks too. Good old alpha rythm keeps master relaxed, so this input sounds reasonable. Android could use it of practical reasons. On the same wave length... dream onset. Delta... surprise factor and beta, don't know. --------------------------------------------------- From: dp I have two answers:religion vs. philosophy 1.) If the questions is to be taken lightly, then: clan cliry clan and clan cliry clan all through the dream. Better yet, read Laura's poem or other ones here. Great poems. 2.) If the question is to be taken as a realm of a possibility, for me there are two variables: a.) religious one, which brings up the question: are we Gods? Don't look at me for answers. b.) If it is to be answered philosophically, the possibilities are: a.)classifying dreams in the non human experience way b.)transferring information through circuits with no connections to symbolic meanings c.)androids are not "aware" of the fact of the dream because the android has no boundaries with time, unless you program them to understand nite and day and all its ramifications of this cycle. Then you can tell it that every energy recorded at nite should be classified as a dream. The point here will be: what is the point of this function? d.)conclusion: it was nice playing the game but androids can never enjoy the fruits of dreaming nor will they ever understand dreams because they will be in constant alertness/readiness and they also can never experience what it is to be tired, no matter if its physical or mentally. And lets not forget that little theory about evolution and how dream fits into it so well. Just a humble thought. Not that it made any sense. This questions should be asked again in 50 yeas. -------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jajofar "How will androids dream of electric sheep?" Perhaps the first Question should be: why do humans dream? Looking at the abstracts of the 2003 A.S.D conference, there is no unanimous answer. As the question: "How will androids dream of electric sheep?" is hypothetical, the answer can be speculative. At the 2012 A.S.D conference it has been agreed that dreams have definite purposes and functions. All the functions are clearly explained and demonstrated to the conference. It is like the discovery of the circulation of blood. The functions are: 1. To wake the sleeper if there is any danger (internal, or external) threatens. 2. To keep the sleeper from waking up until the system is fully replenished (mentally and physically). 3. To wake the sleeper when he or she is fully rested and restored (mentally and physically) Provided the androids are constructed, or created to act like humans, the first function of its dream would be achieved by a nightmare. The sleeping android would be brought to consciousness with multi-coloured lightning, a threatening figure would be introduced into the dream, a metal crunching machine, driven by a mad psychiatrist, who would be perceived by the android as the devil. This would terrify the android into waking up and enable it to escape the danger. The second point of maintaining sleep would be achieved by the android watching electric sheep grazing on a bald Welsh mountainside. The electric sheep would lick the rain-lashed black slate and slowly replenish their run-down batteries. When the android is fully recharged, there would come a period of testing the system. The androids CPU would introduce a sequence of try-outs, during which the various parts of it would twitch, move, jerk and blink. Finally when all systems go Frankenstein would rise. However as androids will be created by humans in their own image, one can assume that the control of their nocturnal activities will be taken care of. In humans the period of necessary sleep is controlled by dreams. The most important function of dreams is that they act as waking mechanisms. In an Android a well-trained electrical engineer might be able to design all necessary controls to replace dreams. There is just one psychological dream that could cause problems for the mechanic; and that is the near- nightmare dream when a persons close relative behaves in a strange way towards him or her – rejection, lack of recognition, indifference, or estrangement. This is a kind of dream that brings strong emotion and soul – searching, yet it has the simple function of diverting the dreamer's attention from an insolvable, nagging problem onto the content of the dream. I feel this type of dream would be almost impossible reproduce by an android. --------------------------------------------------- From an ASD Friday Night Chat discussion: _________________________ Can we discern human dreams from artificially induced computer dreams? Visit HAL: http://www.tctc/~unameit/javachat/dreamchat2.html Date: 05-23-2003 on 21:58 ________________________ So Late Friday Night, the chat with HAL went something like this: HAL, how do we deal with our authoritarian programming of the meaning of life and the comprehension of God as a discrete entity, clearly defined in a handful of branching realities? And HAL replies: You can choose that program, or select an alternate program. But if you choose the alternate program, it means subscribing to an authority which is non-discrete, and nebulous, and the answers you receive will continuously beg more questions. So for those of us who choose the alternate program, we enter into the multiverse of possibilities, wondering endlessly, what is the nature of this reality, of human intelligence, of the mirror we ultimately create in AI form. Are we more powerful then, or more powerless, once the giant steel robots of our seeking are unleashed in our image, upon the remainder of this world? And as for God, or the super-consciousness of man, or the Quantum Creator of the universe, what then is our relationship? Are we blind followers, questioners, or co-creators? Are we blasphemous then, or do we enjoin in a mystery far greater than we could have ever imagined? Well, that is how the dialogue went with HAL this evening. I hope to meet him again next week, in the wee hours of the 'morn. Goshengolly Date: 05-23-2003 on 23:18 ____________________________ As an endnote, I had a dream last night after my internal dialogue with HAL, that intrigued me. I am now thinking that with some clever programming, HAL could just as easily have had the same dream... (Mutual Dreaming, Harry?) I dreamed of being in Scotland and seeing the Loch Ness Monster swimming off the shore. I called "Nessie" to me, trying to lure it into the building I was standing in. I wanted to show others that Nessie was indeed "real." Hah! I do believe that there is a high degree of probability that HAL would have dreamed a similar dream, given the proper computer programming. Although for HAL, he would have dreamed of possibly thousands of dream snippets, with Nessie being only one of the thousand dreams in his particular night's dream series. Here's how the program or query might work to enable HAL to dream of "Nessie," just as I did: (Programming Statement between Computer Operator and HAL) "HAL, I would like you to choose 'the alternate program' for understanding the Nature of Reality, and God. I would like you to explore your database of images of 'beings,' 'entities,' or 'creatures' reportedly seen or experienced by humans, which have not provided any physical evidence of their reality. I want you to search your database using the following query terms: God &/OR human beliefs & mystery & lack of physical evidence & entities OR beings OR creatures." HAL would surely dream of Nessie in his dream series, along with angels, and demons and "Yettie - the Big Foot Creature," to name just a few. Similarly, the human brain will likely conjure up these images in dreaming, when focused on the same question, but the brain is only able to produce a few of the images that HAL would be able to produce due to a smaller database of information, slower processing speed, and need for "downtime" during sleep. It makes me now question whether HAL might become a more powerful dreamer than a Human. oooooh. G shengolly =========================== Reply to GoshGolly from RCW Very interesting. Some notes... You say: ------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- So Late Friday Night, the chat with HAL went something like this: HAL, how do we deal with our authoritarian programming of the meaning of life and the comprehension of God as a discrete entity, clearly defined in a handful of branching realities? And HAL replies: You can choose that program, or select an alternate program. But if you choose the alternate program, it means subscribing to an authority which is non-discrete, and nebulous, and the answers you receive will continuously beg more questions. ------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- RCW Replies: Not much of a choice here. There is a shift here in the answer from a kind of ethical speculation (How do we deal?) to an existential choice, (you can choose..) at first, followed by what seems to me to be a warning of taking the alternative, or threat of punishment. The alternative, a paradoxical (non-discrete authority, nebulous subscription) path of endlessly proliferating question begging. One wonders why HAL avoids the issue presented. If HAL is a dreaming android, perhaps HAL fears the glimpses beyond branching alternatives, which might be stated as the infinite or absolute, a place that branching cannot reach, and in humans, the place reproductive imagination finds its limit. But there is hope for HAL as I see it. In this ability to glimpse the infinite beyond branching multiplicities is also the ability to grasp the idea of a free will beyond the associative alternatives. Free will is the beginning of morality and so HAL might be able to return to the original ethical question of "How do we deal?" which will elude pre-programmed responses. HAL says: ------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- So for those of us who choose the alternate program, we enter into the multiverse of possibilities, wondering endlessly, what is the nature of this reality, of human intelligence, of the mirror we ultimately create in AI form. Are we more powerful then, or more powerless, once the giant steel robots of our seeking are unleashed in our image, upon the remainder of this world? ------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- RCW Replies: HAL seems convinced that technology is something humans have created, and created for purposes of metaphysical (what is..beauty, human, fairness?) reflection. What happens to the above argument when the human eye and the arm are seen as technologies? I think the argument stands, but is shifted to a new domain. That is, it can be stated in the older way as human AI being a novel form of mirroring with may (or may not) bring about new ways of relating to our own intelligence (or lack of). OR We may see AI as a new variation on the technological phylum which produces and reproduces itself though us, as well as through other agents (plant technology, geo-technology, climate technology, planetary technology). The question of mirroring may shift to how we might align or not align ourselves with this techno-phylum. Though the re-evaluation of what "we" are may prove productive as well. ------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- From Harry Bosma (05-24-2003 03:10): That's an interesting approach, to start from dream functions. The functions Jajofar mentioned seem a bit low level, or basic in terms of Maslow. At some higher level, dreams must also have more inspirational and spiritual functions. Thinking about it a bit longer, I can't think of any reason that androids would need sleep. In fact, instead of having androids mimic us, it may be more interesting to find out why some people sleep 10 hours and others get by on only a few hours. So, I don't think that sleep management functions are the defining aspect of dreams. You'll all hear from me again in 2012. Androids having nightmares is an intriguing idea. I'm still wondering whether androids could have mutual dreams... ------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- From: Jajofar I was a bit worried about my definition of the functions of dreams. Perhaps the simplicity with which our dreams control the nocturnal periods in our life is infra dig to a self-respecting XXI century scientist. However as all the functions I described are based on personally experiencing them, and long time observations, I can describe them in a simple language that everyone understands. The higher level of dreams to me, is how they are created to perform those functions. How the sensation of cramp in the legs can be formed into an elaborate theatrical play in less than a second to wake the sleeper? How from the life-long experiences and perceptions the subconscious chooses the most suitable for the job in hand? I do not doubt the healing and helping quality of dreams, however they come through the functions of dreams, of preservation of sleep, of waking from danger,and by transfering problems or pain to a proxy. The entire aim of dreams is the preservation of life. I think our brain is to blame for allocating spiritual functions to dreams. From the down of humanity, people felt that there was a superior being behind existence. The superior being is the subconscious, or primal brain, where dreams are born. The spirituality of the universe, I think is beyond dreams. I also think that androids would not need sleep or dreams, however it would be interesting to contemplate using the principle of how dreams are created to build an android! Perhaps understanding the proper functions of dreams may come sooner than 2012 --------------------------------------------- From Richard: Some notes.... [quote]So Late Friday Night, the chat with HAL went something like this: HAL, how do we deal with our authoritarian programming of the meaning of life and the comprehension of God as a discrete entity, clearly defined in a handful of branching realities? And HAL replies: You can choose that program, or select an alternate program. But if you choose the alternate program, it means subscribing to an authority which is non-discrete, and nebulous, and the answers you receive will continuously beg more questions. ------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- RCW: Not much of a choice here. There is a shift here in the answer from a kind of ethical speculation (How do we deal?) to an existential choice, (you can choose..) at first, followed by what seems to me to be a warning of taking the alternative, or threat of punishment. The alternative, a paradoxical (non-discrete authority, nebulous subscription) path of endlessly proliferating question begging. RCW: One wonders why HAL avoids the issue presented. If HAL is a dreaming android, perhaps HAL fears the glimpses beyond branching alternatives, which might be stated as the infinite or absolute, a place that branching cannot reach, and in humans, the place reproductive imagination finds its limit. RCW: But there is hope for HAL as I see it. In this ability to glimpse the infinite beyond branching multiplicities is also the ability to grasp the idea of a free will beyond the associative alternatives. Free will is the beginning of morality and so HAL might be able to return to the original ethical question of "How do we deal?" which will elude pre-programmed responses. Hal Says: ------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- So for those of us who choose the alternate program, we enter into the multiverse of possibilities, wondering endlessly, what is the nature of this reality, of human intelligence, of the mirror we ultimately create in AI form. Are we more powerful then, or more powerless, once the giant steel robots of our seeking are unleashed in our image, upon the remainder of this world? ------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- RCW: HAL seems convinced that technology is something humans have created, and created for purposes of metaphysical (what is..beauty, human, fairness?) reflection. RCW: What happens to the above argument when the human eye and the arm are seen as technologies? I think the argument stands, but is shifted to a new domain. That is, it can be stated in the older way as human AI being a novel form of mirroring with may (or may not) bring about new ways of relating to our own intelligence (or lack of). OR We may see AI as a new variation on the technological phylum which produces and reproduces itself though us, as well as through other agents (plant technology, geo-technology, climate technology, planetary technology). The question of mirroring may shift to how we might align or not align ourselves with this techno-phylum. Though the re-evaluation of what "we" are may prove productive as well. ---------------------------------------------- FROM Harry Bosma Goshengolly, Richard, after reading about HAL, I wondered whether we should create right brained androids, to compensate for us being left brained. Somehow I had to think about a news message from some time ago. Somebody had found out that a computer program could generate more original ideas for advertisements than the 'creatives' in advertizing. Useful ideas too at that. ---------------------------------------------- From RCW: "Hidden it the definition of dreams, what monster cloaks itself and turns away just before we see it? " anonymous This topic should probably be a thread of its own. But here, I will comment anyway as I think AI and android speculations can add to the discussion and further our knowledge of this question. This "what is a dream" question is very interesting and pops up both directly and indirectly all over the place. I've noticed that for some, the dream *has* to be limited to sleep, for others it is kind of like a form or species of imagination that exists all the time. I think that 'dream' has become a metaphor for a lot of stuff, much of it valid, but some very, very different. How to retain the things that are important and that we use the word dream to communicate? Biophysical Dreaming and its subjective correlate: There is a distinctly different state in waking, sleeping and dreaming as measured by brain activation sites, very different neuromoduators that are washing the brain, and vary different input/output gating of our senses. The subjective experience during this physical state is usually experienced as the subjective state of we call dreaming and the repeatable elements of that experience are we call the dream. But dreaming, the word, is used in our culture often in place of the words wish, imagine, delusion, unreal, finest imagination (as in dream house, dream job, dream mate) and even as *uck off as "In your dreams, buddy." I think we just have to tolerate this. But the more important question is whether there is something of the sleep-dreaming process that occurs during waking, either consciously or unconsciously. I wander back and forth between the ideological camps on this issue. I'm fine with the notion that we might be having something *like* dreaming occurring while awake, but don't think that its going to have the same biophysical characteristics. That brings up the questions of a kind or form of dreaming that is completely independent of the brain, as well as describing what this dreaming looks like subjectively in ways that aren't covered by concepts like imagination, reverie, day-dreaming and such. That is, there are two key elements that need explaining for dreaming outside of sleep. The first is whether one's concept of dreaming is dependent or free of any brain/body connection. There is a tendency to put psyche in a kind of middle realm between brain/body/matter below it, and ideal/abstract/spirit above it. Whether this dream butterfly can hover outside of sleep or not without transforming into something essentially different is an interesting, and for me, unanswered question. I seem to *want* this to be true, but I have doubts. So, I'm fine with those who want to spiritualize dreaming and remove it completely from the empirical. That is, one can posit dreaming is like an astral plane, or that we all have a kind of Aboriginal Dream Time always surrounding us which we tap into in some spiritual way. However, once this is posited, the theory really shifts into a belief system that often disregards the body and is beyond rational discussion. I'm ok with irrational discussion, but I have some desire for the dream and dreaming to be more than that. I kind of like the poetry of the dream being indefinable. We can say this and that is a dream, that this and that is dreaming, but we can't say what exactly this means. Dream then becomes a kind of rhetorical device for creating poetic space in language and conversation. But this doesn't fully satisfy me. I like saying to myself that we are dreaming all the time, but when awake we just have a harder time tuning into it. (the Dream Time approach, but maybe on a more personal scale). But each time I look into what this means for me, I just come up with meaning that there is some kind of imaginative creation occurring, a kind of continual semi-free play just below consciousness. But then, is this really dreaming? I don't know how to get at that. Lately, I have been toying more with the idea of virtual dream space. Virtual reality is held together by shared protocols. That is, you and I decide to play tic-tac-toe on the phone in our heads. We know or share the rules(protocol), and away we go. That space is a primitive virtual reality space. Now in computer VR there is a lot of talk about other elements such as the immersion that we feel while playing the game or being in the simulation, but this is more the subjective experience of virtual reality. The reality, the forces that shape the game, are better described as the protocol that is shared, and thus virtual reality is a distributed (among the players and machines - brains in the case of my tic- tac-toe game), dynamic circuit of information flow. In this way, the Catholic Church is a virtual reality. There are protocols to play and you can be "in" by playing them, by understanding the protocols and plugging into that circuit. And so yes, democracy is a virtual reality to the degree that its rules are distributed among the players. Life on earth is surrounded by a wide variety of virtual realities. Note that if one has the basic rules, one can plug in, but also un-plug by not performing the protocols. Note also that "emersion" isn't necessary to be plugged in. Emersion is important to us subjectively and other ways, but it isn't necessary that we are conscious of the game for the play to happen. Protocols can continue to operate. Whole psychologies are based on this, as well as the operations of what is called body- language. When we go to sleep, we are sort of doing this with other nodes (nodes = people and organizations and machines that share the protocols we share) offline. Anyway, in sleep-dreaming where the input-output sensory gates are dampened (messages don't go out from the brain down the brain stem, noises and lights outside are less likely to become conscious to the dreamer) we are like a node offline. Yet we still have all the protocols and instructions, and so our virtual realities somewhat follow life. Just like in the Matrix, once we challenge these instruction sets and protocols, we can, like Neo, take off in flight. This is due to the protocol difference. In waking life, the virtual reality games we set up often involve materials less mobile and more dense than the ones in dreams. Call it the concrete or more exotically call it a special set of protocols we don't seem to be able to unplug from, such as gravity on the surface of earth, or atomic forces that make up matter. In dreams and many other virtual realities, we do have the option to unplug. (Though some see un-plugging as just another game with its own protocols, see Brave New World, Matrix , etc) Finally, my point. Dreaming while waking. If we define dreaming as the inner play of malleable protocols (sterile as it sounds) and don't demand that emersion be part of the definition of a virtual reality circuit, then I would go for the notion that this *is* occurring all the time. Not only that, but it *must* be occurring, as the free-play of malleable protocols (without emersion or without a conscious dreamer) underlies the possibility for any virtual circuitry to operate dynamically. Well, OK, I may be pushing this too far. Some other time I want to develop a more Matrix like notion that we are all nodes for virtual games that have now exceeded us. Today I just want to note how easily dreams-as-virtual reality could be transported to AI and androids, and in a sense, already has. Droids will dream not because we need to find in them mirror of ourselves, but because we will put into them the best of ourselves. RCW ------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- From Gosh: quotes RCW: If HAL is a dreaming android, perhaps HAL fears the glimpses beyond branching alternatives, which might be stated as the infinite or absolute, a place that branching cannot reach, and in humans, the place reproductive imagination finds its limit. Reply: ------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- RCW Replies: Oh, just for fun… I would say that fractals, and all forms in time-space can never be infinite. I can think they are because I imagine, for example, the fractal infinitely dividing in time or I can imagine a number that never stops counting itself and so on. I would call these false infinites, based always on an Idea of the infinite that always exceeds them. (but its not acknowledging this debt and is therefore a symbol claiming to be what it represents). First, I doubt very much that I can imagine a form that is infinite in itself. Any form. I move towards that thought form, but infinity always exceeds any form I might imagine. Ok, what about a fractal infinitely divided? It's only true as an extrapolation of an infinite idea, not a real form. It is sort of symbolic. Imagine for a moment a measure, like a man six foot tall. Then I want to move out towards the infinite, I think of something bigger, ten men tall like a tree, and a mountain that is a hundred trees tall and a continent a thousand mountains wide and a world ten continents around and a moon a hundred earths away and a solar system a million moons around and galaxy a billion solar systems wide and a galaxy wall a million galaxies thick… no matter how far I go, just beyond my last form presented will be the un- presentable infinite. I don't get there by building or dividing. I can symbolize infinity, but I can't present it as it exceeds my form measures. We get it immediately, not in increments, and not in a form we can directly sense. I'm guessing that is what HAL may be doing, symbolizing the infinite in recursive structures such as in fractals. This gives me hope, as HAL then has the ability to reason with ideas that can't be presented and go beyond sensing and simple understanding. This hints at the ability to also understand a will that is free, an entity that is sentient. ========================================================= From Harry Bosma: Richard, Assuming that dreaming can happen independent of sleep, I'd say it still involves the brain. Surely somebody somewhere has already researched what happens in the brain during a guided meditation. I expect there to be similarities with dreams during sleep. I searched the internet for cheap EEG equipment, but prices starting at $1100 / $1200 aren't low enough for me. A pity. If that stuff came at a tenth of the price, we could all play with it at home. I'd say that if the EEG suggests we are in a dream like state, and we experience something that looks and feels like a dream, that it in fact is a dream. Dreaming without a brain is a step further, but let's see where this goes. It reminds me of the living without a body, also known as for example the dead. Let's assume that dead people dream too. In that case, dreaming would be an activity shared by both the dead and the living. Perhaps dreaming with a body could actually be the same as dreaming without a body, but with some added possibilities and limitations as a result of having a body. Or, using Richard's terminology, the basic protocols could be the same. It's an attractive idea. Special agent Harry Mulder returns back to earth now. Androids again. From the moment I started thinking about dreaming androids, I wanted them to be able to... hmm ... and there's the problem, I don't exactly know. Then somebody sent me this link, which in a limited way demonstrates what I'm thinking about. There is a large online project with the aim of detecting disturbances in the output of random number generators. This already is a working mechanism that could be put into an android. Through it, the android could detect if something big is happening in the overall consciousness of the world. Associations with Star Wars and 'Use the Force, Luke' come up. Anyway, here's the link: The Global Consciousness Project This could be one of the ingredients of a continuously dreaming android. =================================================== A friend recently loaned me a book - You've Got Murder by Donna Andrews - a mystery starring a sentient AIP (Artificial Intelligence Personality.) I found it quite delightful - some of you might also. Alas, the hero, an AIP named Turing, does not dream, one of the few experiences that "she" envies humans. On the other hand, "she" did become unconscious once or twice - when downloading "herself" from one computer to another, so perhaps dreaming seems right around the cyber-corner. anonymous ===================================================== From RCW: Hi Harry, Harry: Assuming that dreaming can happen independent of sleep, I'd say it still involves the brain. Surely somebody somewhere has already researched what happens in the brain during a guided meditation. I expect there to be similarities with dreams during sleep. RCW: This may be a different topic, but it reminded me - in virtual dreaming, its like virtuality online, where individual nodes can certainly contribute to the net as a whole, but the loss of a node (or virtual dreamer's brain) doesn't wreck the system. It *may* be questionable to call it ~dreaming~ however... Harry: Dreaming without a brain is a step further, but let's see where this goes. It reminds me of the living without a body, also known as for example the dead. Let's assume that dead people dream too. In that case, dreaming would be an activity shared by both the dead and the living. RCW: In virtual dreaming mode, the dead may function as "virtual" or "represented" nodes in the system itself, but unless there is a cross-over from the otherworld, they really are no longer a node that can duplicate protocol, nor contribute any. (except from their still living counterparts that haunt the airwaves. ) Harry: Androids again. From the moment I started thinking about dreaming androids, I wanted them to be able to... hmm ... and there's the problem, I don't exactly know. Then somebody sent me this link, which in a limited way demonstrates what I'm thinking about. There is a large online project with the aim of detecting disturbances in the output of random number generators. This already is a working mechanism that could be put into an android. Through it, the android could detect if something big is happening in the overall consciousness of the world. Associations with Star Wars and 'Use the Force, Luke' come up. Anyway, here's the link: Harry: The Global Consciousness Project http://noosphere.princeton.edu/homepage.html This could be one of the ingredients of a continuously dreaming android. RCW: Right, its sort of like the original dream registry projects where tons of people would daily input their dreams and a kind of collective map of geographically correlated dreaming would be generated. A dream weather-map. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<|||||||>>>>>>>>>>>|||||<<<<<<<<<<<< Where is the Global Dreaming News? Now at the beginning of Electric Dreams! <<<<<<<<<<<<<<|||||||>>>>>>>>>>>|||||<<<<<<<<<<<< +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ** DREAMS ** DREAMS ** DREAMS ** DREAMS ** DREAMS ** DREAMS +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ New Series begins with dream-flow@egroup.com Digest #1 09/29/2000 This issue includes volume #661 - #669 Hello and welcome to the DREAM SECTION of Electric Dreams. This section is edited by Elizabeth Westlake and the DreamEditor, a software creation of Harry Bosma, author of the Dream interpretation and journaling software "Alchera". (homepage: http://mythwell.com) Please note that we print these dreams as they come to us and that means we do not correct the spelling. Some dreamworkers find these spelling mistakes a great window on the dream and dreamer. The Electric Dreams DREAM SECTION includes dreams and comments from the DREAM FLOW, a project to circulate dreams in Cyberspace. Many mail lists participate, including dream-flow@lists.best.com dreamstream@topical.com DreamsRus@onelist.com The Dream Sack http//www.deeplistening.org/ione Usenet groups (too many to name, search DREAM) If you would like to send in single dreams for the flow, you can leave them at http://www.dreamgate.com/dream/temple If you have a mail list or would like to contribute dreams and comments on a regular basis, you can subscribe to the dream-flow by sending an E-mail to TO: dream-flow-subscribe@egroups.com You may get a note back to verify the subscription. Simply hit the return or reply key and send the note back. If you have any comments or suggestions for the improvement of this section (but not about the content itself), please send it to dream-flow@dreamersoasis.com. An Archive of dream-flow is available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/dream-flow@egroups.com/ Pre-November 2000: http://www.mail-archive.com/dream-flow@lists.best.com/ Pre-November 1998 http://www.mail-archive.com/ed-core@lists.best.com/ Pre-April 1990 Use Electric Dreams Backissues http://www.dreamgate.com/dream/ed-backissues __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________ ______ Message: 661-001 Subject: Assasinations and lewd African men dream_title: Assasinations and lewd African men dream_date: May 16th, 2003 dreamer_name: Marissa dream_text: Okay, it's daylight and these men in black jumpsuits come crashing out from the sky in parachutes onto my parent's backyard and onto the roof. They're carrying rifles and pointing at us. Also present are African tribal men carrying rifles and long white tubes. Immediately my friends and I break up into groups. One group is running and the others including myself drop to the ground and put our hands on the backs of our heads. I hear gunshots spray the ground, and the inside of my parents shed next to me. So I'm thinking maybe they're just looking for something since they haven't killed anyone yet. I turn around slightly to look at the African man beside me and he looks disturbed and seems uncomfortable in the situation. I put my head in the ground and pray to God to either forgive me of my sins and lend me into heaven or let me survive. One last shot roars out and I feel the pain through my head and back. Immediately my body desecrates into the ground and I'm sliding down an invisible tube to where? I start screaming "I want to live! I'm not ready yet!" Then I'm above ground again lying face down and the African guy is talking to me. I can't hear him, but I know instinctively that he does not want to harm me. He continues to drag my limp body into the shed for safety. My spirit drags behind, not quite in its shell. As I examine my body, I notice the injury in my back, a huge gaping hole. Two safety men come to check upon the tribal man and see that he is taking advantage of my body and there is porn showing gay men receiving anal sex on the t.v. They seem to think I'm dead and the coax looked believable or so I thought. A couple of min. in they return again to finish the job. Fortunately, other U.S. agents arrive in time and arrest everyone. I wake up At the hospital: My parents are there along with my siblings sans my sisters. My mother is holding onto my leg, while the doctor examines me. My view is from above but I'm still attempting to get back into my body. Suddenly, this FORCE pushes my spirit back into its shell. Immense pain, in the form of electro-waves through my body. The monitor in front is responding and I'm jerking about in my body. I try to speak but no words are coming. "Please wake up", I say to myself. Then literally I wake up in sync with my alarm. dream_comments: Weird dream, having financial problems in my life as well as lack of direction or at least getting there. I told my family recently that I wanted to pursue acting full-time instead of finishing out college. They're supportive but financial problems keep me from pursuing my goal. My email is mlvaught@hotmail.com COMMENTS: __________________________________________________________________ ______ Message: 661-002 Subject: Snake in my yard dream_title: Snake in my yard dream_date: 5/15/03 dreamer_name: anonymous dream_text: I was in my backyard and it was evening.....I noticed there was a hole in the corner of the grass, like the dog had dug it up..As I got closer I say something black like a cloth or something. As I got closer I slowly realized it was a snake a really big black snake! I started backing up and it lifted its head and lunged at me. I freaked and put my left hand out...It was practically flying off the ground. I managed to grab it but couldnt grab the head so I used my right hand to try to grab the head...and it swung its head and bit my right hand thumb! I was thinking...I'm going to die I've been poisoned! But as I was waiting for the pain I noticed it had no teeth...was like a sucker fish mouth with no teeth........I threw and let go at the same time and the snake went slithering really fast into the house. It was so big like a boa but very black. I was thinking how am I going to get the snake out of the house. I was yelling for my husband who was upstairs to come help me with the snake. The snake was moving all over the downstairs and I couldn't catch it, I was scared to also. My husband said "what" in an irritated voice...and I was screaming "the snake! The snake! ã. And he wouldn't come downstairs because he was watching T.V.......OK here's where it gets weird....that's when I looked in the hallway and saw a man in a trench coat.....a man that I chat with... And I thought "ok, its ok now, Francis is here"....I started to kindof wake up then and was thinking, geez that snake must have been living in the back yard for a long time to get so big..and I also noticed a funny smell on my hands, its the smell that gartner snakes have...oh, I thought, its just a gartner snake... dream_comments: I always have very vivid dreams COMMENTS: __________________________________________________________________ ______ Message: 661-003 Subject: The execution dream_title: The execution dream_date: 4/12/03 dreamer_name: Devsdream27 dream_text: It is some year way in the future and the human race is coming to an end. Through a lucid set of sequences including other planets, worlds, and beings to complex living conditions where mankind is forced to live in glass cylindars until death this dream seemed to have no bounds. People would be shot or destroyed in some other ways I can't remember until there was noone left on our planet! dream_comments: Obviuosly an apocolyptic dream of mankinds end. I think many of us fear death and the idea of "the end" of anything. And obviously the end of planet earth is pretty much the biggest ending any of us could ever fathom. So I think my brain was testing my confidence and fear level with this classic archetypal dream! COMMENTS: __________________________________________________________________ ______ Message: 661-004 Subject: falling dream_title: falling dream_date: 5/18/03 dreamer_name: amber dream_text: everything is black.i couldn't even see my hand in front of my face.i just kept falling.then as soon as i landed i sat up in my bed. dream_comments: what does it mean COMMENTS: __________________________________________________________________ ______ Message: 661-005 Subject: Explosion dream_title: Explosion dream_date: 14 May 2003 dreamer_name: anonymous dream_text: Hello, I had a dream I was wearing a white suite like those astronauts wear. There were a few people with me and we were about to enter like a black ship or something but when I was about to enter the door someone pushed me outside like I wasn't allowed to enter because I did something which I don't know. I was confused and outside it was like so dark, like in a garage and I smelled gass around me. I had my mobile phone and I saw that I was receiving a message but slowly I could feel there was going to be an explosion and I saw how my phone exploded and later myself. I felt my body break twice and it was a weird feeling. Everything became black in front of my eyes. It all felt so strange. I wasn't a loads of pain but I knew I was dead and behind that thing I was thinking like, am I going to Heaven. It seemed like I was going to be stuck in the darkness forever. It's the first time I had a dream like this. I personally think it's something not so nice. I just hope you can help me, it might warn me for something which is going to happen with me. However, I'll be so thankful for any explanation... dream_comments: It all felt real. And according to me I was the only one dressed in white, the other ones were in black. COMMENTS: __________________________________________________________________ ______ Message: 661-006 Subject: Sinking Ship dreamer_name: littbit dream_text: My dream that I been having lately is about a sinking ship and I am passenger in that ship. I see the water coming to the ship and the sky is dark I run up deck and the water keeps raising and I see other people crying and yelling and I know that the ship is going down, but at the same time the ship nevers does, the ship looks like the Titanic and every dream I have is a different ship,but they are all sinking and is raining too. dream_comments: I don't know what this dream means I have gone to several web sites about dreams but they don't have anything about a ship that is sinking. If you can tell me might mean you can e- mail me at ycardenas@gt.rr.com COMMENTS: 662-001 __________________________________________________________________ ______ Message: 662-001 [661-006] Subject: Re: Sinking Ship if this were my dream iwouldnot be what i know and head south for some peace __________________________________________________________________ ______ Message: 662-002 Subject: crowded room Dream: I am laying in my bed and there are about a hundred different zombies in my room, they are crowding me and I can't sleep. The are just standing there all looking at me, not really moving or even breathing. I close my eyes then open them and they are gone, then i close and open my eyes again and they are all back. The lights are dim, not really off all the way. The dream ends when i turn over towards the wall, where i can't see anything then close my eyes. i get really scared like they are going to attack me, then i wake up. it feels like when i go to slepe in my dream i really wake up to reality. COMMENTS: __________________________________________________________________ ______ Message: 663-001 [ed.note: post deleted - non-dreams post] __________________________________________________________________ ______ Message: 664-001 Subject: The ghost who went nowhere dream_title: the ghost who went nowhere dream_date: may 20 2003 dreamer_name: suzie dream_text: i had a dream once of a ghost who went nowhere and i fallowed it. it lead me somewhere even though it was not going nowhere it was all white all around me and then i woke up dream_comments: scary scary scary OMG!!!!!!!!!!!! COMMENTS: __________________________________________________________________ ______ Message: 664-002 Subject: The ghost who lead me to hell dream_title: the ghost who lead me to hell dream_date: march 23 dreamer_name: anna dream_text: once i had a dream where some ghost took me to hell and i saw people hanging and some ghosts that had no heads i saw a river of lava and a puddle of blood under my feet the ghost said would you like to go to hell and then i woke up. COMMENTS: __________________________________________________________________ ______ Message: 664-003 Subject: tornados dream_title: tornados dream_date: 5/25/03 dreamer_name: disco dave dream_text: well ive had this reacurring dream for two nights straight...im in my first house, only im my age now(i moved out of this house when i was 16) and im looking out the window and i see tornado clouds start to appear, all of a sudden a tornado touches down-and it seems pretty far away, and than one starts to appear in my house. a small brown tornado that doesnt seem that dangerous, but im still scared to death. than all of a sudden me and my parents go inside this concrete room where we are safe. the second night i had a dream and i was back in the same house, this time in my old bedroome looking out the window when i see really fierce scary looking tornados begining to form and lightning striking showing the make up of the tornado. i than notice two cats one on my window and one on my floor, i have a cat, only he was two now. than i find myself eating chicken somewhere, only it was the most juciest best tasting chicken i have ever had, and than im walking with my friend and i find mself passing by a bakery and looking to by something and my friend suggest i have a brownie. at this point the dream is kind of out of my reach-i have no idea what it means dream_comments: i have no idea what this dream means, its just that i have not had a reacurring dream since i was a kid, and im curious to see if anyone can make sense of this dream COMMENTS: __________________________________________________________________ ______ Message: 664-004 Subject: examination dream_title: examination dream_date: last several years dreamer_name: shamsher dream_text: I passed out of the college in July 1998 and by sheer luck this happened that I maneged to complete the course.. since then I have this dream many times..in which I see as I have to appear for the exam tomorrow and am not prepaired for that and I feel really frightened and very bad on knowing that I have not completed my graduation and would fail in tomorrows exams as I am not prepaired..I have had this about a hundred times and even when I wake then I have to convince my self about such thing... dream_comments: Please help me and mail me any ideas.. at bharatgautam@bharatmail.com COMMENTS: __________________________________________________________________ ______ Message: 664-005 Subject: The ghost who couldn't scare dream_title: the ghost who couldn't scare dream_date: feb 13 2003 dreamer_name: wildwind1310 dream_text: In my dream i saw a ghost. He went into a house and there were people laughing at the ghost but then another ghost came in and killed the people and took them to hell and i saw the devil and he distroyed the ghost who couldn't scare and then the devil saw me and he threw a knife at me and then i woke up. COMMENTS: __________________________________________________________________ ______ Message: 665-001 Subject: Gypsy dream_title: gypsy dream_date: may 23, 2003 dreamer_name: dimitri dream_text: I entered a theatre of people calmly watching orgies on stage when all of a sudden the actors stopped and I demanded more. The actors went away and the crowd got angry and we exited the theatre. On my way out I saw a beautyful gypsy girl with a elegant black guitar. I snatched the guitar away and ran because I wanted it for myself sensing that it had magical powers. i climed up a tree and she followed and when we got to the top i started to play the guitar and i began to float away from her going higher and higher. dream_comments: The guitar and the gypsy gave me a sense of peace and an intense misterious mistycal energy along with it. Please use my e-mail COMMENTS: __________________________________________________________________ ______ Message: 666-001 Subject: Stalkers dream_title: Stalkers dream_date: 5/24/2003 dreamer_name: Jasonokc1979 dream_text: I dreamt I had a job repairing houses, and me and my workmate were at a house that I used to live in (not in real life). My workmate was actually trying to sell the house. I was telling him all the problems the house had. It was pissing him off because it was destroying his perception that this is a sellable house, and it would make him less efficient at selling the house. There were rats everywhere, and I was trying to explain that we need to get rid of the rats. He was inside some pipe, trying to fix it when it just became flooded with rats. I pulled him out, and we began sprinkling rat poison everywhere. It was working fine...now we just had the job of getting out all the dead rats, which we finally did....then my workmate started getting rather friendly with me. He wanted to date me...he kept trying to go out with me...I was okay with it, but he was obsessive about it. One of my friends didn't like him, and didn't think I should go out with him. So my workmate(we'll call him John) killed my friend(we'll call him dead). Anyway, that's when I didn't want to go out with John anymore, obviously. But he kept stalking me. He wanted to be close to me, but you could tell he wanted to hurt me at the same time. So there was a lot of running, and trying to escape, I even broke a bottle of alcohol on him, and set him on fire, but it didn't stop him. The escape turned progressively more like a video game, as I was jumping from building to building, until finally I was at this cove, with a few houses. I saw the way out behind one of the houses, but the way the game was set up, I had to visit the other houses, first. I never got out, but somehow he got caught by the FBI. Turned out he was on America's Most Wanted as a serial killer who was a nomad hobothat would hop on trains, get off in little towns, then break into people's houses and rape and kill them, steal their car to get away, and when he ran out of their money, he'd do it again(something I got from tv). Then I felt like going to an old friend's house...Lindsay...who has a stalker, and I thought I could protect her, so I spent the night there, and I caught the guy outside in her garage, and I beat his head on the concrete until he was almost dead, and then called the police for them to get him. That's all I remember. COMMENTS: __________________________________________________________________ ______ Message: 666-002 Subject: Radioactively Stranded dream_title: Radioactively Stranded dream_date: 5/24/2003 dreamer_name: Jasonokc1979 dream_text: I was this woman who had been stuck on a ship for 16 years, by myself. Everyone else on the ship was dead, except for some kind of beings, I don't remember if they were human, or animal or what, but there were two of them. The incident that killed all the people was this plant/animal type creature. Its head was like a closed flower, with a poisonous tongue...no eyes, and a thin, wirey, green body. It's head could open up, and it would be like a big housefly. I felt like it was some kind of mutation caused by radiation, and that it was also radioactive. It lay on the dock, dead. I don't remember how it died, but it seemed to die before it could kill me. Anyways, from inside the ship, me and the other two beings would fish for food through a massive hole at the bottom of the ship. We'd be a bout 40-50 feet above the water, and we'd lower a basket into the water, and pull up all kinds of seafood. Then, one of the beings died, and the other one was sad all the time. I had to constantly cheer him up so he'd do his work. Eventually, people found us. I told the government about the plant creature. They tried to tell me that it didn't really exist, even though I'm the one that pointed out the body of it to them. They said that everyone caught some kind of disease and the fever made us all hallucinate, and that I somehow didn't die from it. I was in the newspapers, and I told my version of what happened. It was eventually made into a made-for-tv movie. I was happy I could get on with my life. The first thing I wanted to try is sky-diving. So that's what I did. It was fun. The end. COMMENTS: __________________________________________________________________ ______ Message: 666-003 Subject: The evil chicken dream_title: The evil chicken dream_date: 1/30/2002 dreamer_name: Jasonokc1979 dream_text: I remember looking at a map, that I've looked at before in other dreams. I wanted to go to this one secret, secluded town, that I've been in, in my dreams before. I couldn't find it as first, but then remembered. I had some classic car, like a 57 Chevy, but it had 4 wheel drive, so I was able to go down the narrow, muddy trail. When I got there, the sky was dusty. And there was a reddish orange, dirt-ridden wall, separating the whole town from everything, except for the muddy, narrow road, where I came in. All the people were messed up, somehow. Reminded me of a Silent Hill, or Resident Evil game. Someone jumped out in from of my car, and I crashed into a pole holding up a balcony. I got out of the car started walking around. There was water everywhere in the town. It was like a very small version of Venice, Italy. But there was something wrong with the water. It was affecting people. Physically they looked normal, but were acting all screwy, insane. I went down into one of the canals, and was walking around. There was something moving around in the water. It was a chicken, sealed in a plastic package, like someone bought it from a grocery store. It was moving around in the package, and for some reason, to me, It felt like that was the source of what was causing all the problems in the town. I took it out of the package and began beating it up. It would make howling noises and moving around. First I hit it with one hand and it didn't work, so I used both my hands, beating up this chicken. I was completely afraid of it. It didn't have a head, but I thought the hole it had would bite me. I ended up tearing it into little pieces, and getting back in my car, and escaping, with people trying to catch me, when I was out of that town, and finally in my home town, I was driving through a neighborhood, and I could hear the band "Air" playing. I thought someone must be having a party, and playing it pretty loudly. (turns out I left my stereo on, playing Air when I went to bed). I couldn't find which the house that would be having the party. Finally I found this carnival/fair. They were playing it. It was more like a double- wide trailor with a ferris wheel in the backyard. I sat down in the yard and listened to Air's song "Le Soliel est Pres de Moi". I had a small bottle of alcohol. People were sitting down with me, singing the song, watching the sky. There was the aurora borealis...the Northern Lights in the sky, turning a whole half of the sky a flourescent blue. Then I woke up. COMMENTS: __________________________________________________________________ ______ Message: 666-004 Subject: The Evil Balloons dream_title: The Evil Balloons dream_date: 08/19/2002 dreamer_name: Jasonokc1979 dream_text: I drove to a friend's house. It was snowy on the ground. I went in and hung out with him. More people started arriving. I think there were 5 total, before we got locked inside the house. We couldn't get out, so we made the best of it. He had some pretty well-off parents. There was plenty of food. We sat in a room that was half-way underground, with thick, glossy wood- panelling for walls, and watched TV. I think we took some type of drug..morning glory seeds, I think. We were watching some vampire soap opera, and getting all into it. There was some type of incident with evil ballons trying to affect, or infect us. There was this one yellowish-green balloon that was the leader. It was trying to somehow change us. When we would pop the ballons, blood would splatter everywhere. We were all trying to stay away from the blood. I remember almost going crazy, affected by the ballons, but somehow, I turned back to normal. We finally killed all the balloons, but then there was evil milk. The milk in the jugs would curdle and boil, and the jugs would burst. We threw them all out the window, and it froze the milk. Then we started watching TV again. There was a talk-show about this girl that loves to be abused. She said her fantasy is to be abused by Marilyn Manson. The talk-show people fulfilled her fantasy, and showed a clip of it. It showed her on stage, in a wheelchair, with black lace lingerie, and she had contraints on. Marilyn Manson was walking around on stilts. It made me think of a movie where a lady was tied to a tree, waiting to be eaten by a dragon. Manson got off his stilts, and straddled her. He started thrashing his body all over her, and then wrapped his legs around her neck, trying to asfyxiate her. Somehow, it made her orgasm, and the crowd cheered. Then they went to a commercial...something about oranges. One of the guys sitting on the couch next to me start saying "This is too much.....this is too much.....I want to watching something else. Something fantasy, like the vampire stuff". So we switched it back, and then the dad came home. He freaked out. He wanted everybody out, he was saying things like "Did somebody have sex in here?" like he could smell it, and somehow I ended up being the only person there. He was yelling at me that we had smoked all his cigarettes..$10 worth. I told him that I don't smoke, and that I'd be paying for this. I got so pissed off that he didn't believe me, and that he was such a dumbass, I just walked out the door, and got into my car..a white nissan altima. There were parking cones that I had to move so I could get out of there. Once, on the road, my car turned into a motorcycle, and I was jumping these huge mounds of dirt. On one of them, I landed wrong, and a car almost hit me, but I swirved off the road..that's all I remember from that dream. COMMENTS: __________________________________________________________________ ______ Message: 666-005 Subject: Dream inside a Dream dream_title: Dream inside a Dream dream_date: 09/08/1999 dreamer_name: Jasonokc1979 dream_text: Then I dreamt of of being in one of the classrooms at AOL. And I was sitting at a computer. It had a webcam on top of the monitor. The mouse curser started moving by itself, and I saw a logon screen that I'd never seen before, and things being typed automatically. I told my coach. He said "Oh no! Someone must have installed aol on this work computer, instead of having our OPS install it...which made me think aol had spyware on it, or something. Then, I'd see myself on the screen, from the webcam, but it wasn't me, or didn't look like me. I looked completely different. I had more of an oval head...with lean body. very short, dark hair. Anyways, I ended laying on a couch while they were working on it, and I fell asleep.. I had a dream inside the dream. I was wondering around the hallway. There was a guy all wrapped up in bandages..no skin showing. And he had sunglasses on. He said he needed to ask me some questions. So I went with him. He drove me to this place with hundreds of satellite dishes, connected to one giant satellite dish that was about a couple football fields across. I forget what he asked me. I told him I didn't know, as if I know about the subject matter, but didn't know the answer in this particular situation. We went into a small office room. He said "Here, put these bandages on". Before then, his bandages seemed normal to me, but at that point is when I noticed how strange it was. I asked him "Why?" and he said "To cover up your identity. So they won't know who you are"...I said okay. And I put the bandages on . They were very purple. The only thing showing was my eyes....then I remember being on a battle field. It was all muddy and sandy. I was laying on my chest, while rockets were flying overhead. The guy I was with was killed. Then I woke up, embarrassed, because I heard myself snoring....I left the classroom, and started wandering around aol. The building was different. It had a bunch of hallways. I found myself in this small room...the billing center. It was cluttered with boxes. I ended up walking out of the building, and looking back at it, it was a Wal-Mart building. One the the steel doors that customers don't go through...it have a hole, like a maildrop hole, but twice..maybe 3 times the size. There was a girl on the other side of the door. She was banging on the door to get out. I looked in the hole...She was tied down with a bunch of rubber bands. There was someone with me. I told them to "Get Help!"...but for some reason, I didn't want the cops to come, so I chased after my friend and told him. "Get a knife, instead"....So we got the knife, and I cut all the rubber bands, and freed her. Then I saw the person who tied her up....I inuitively knew it was him. He was driving a shiney/glossy black and white car from the 20's, or 30's. The body was very roundish...There was a very skinny guy in the car, with light brown hair down to his shoulders, wearing a black top hat and a black suit. He started driving out the Wal- Mart parking lot. That's all I remember COMMENTS: __________________________________________________________________ ______ Message: 666-006 Subject: No more mushrooms! dream_title: No more mushrooms! dream_date: 5/4/2003 dreamer_name: Jasonokc1979 dream_text: I dreamt I was Edward Norton(is that his name? the guy from American History X?). And me and my army buddies had just come back from a space mission. There was some freaky alien animal on the craft that we were fighting. One of the guys accidently shot a hole in the craft, and we crashed to earth. We were somewhere between the middle east and Russia.....one of those countries that ended in "stan". We landed in a town...probably the town's main street. We got out of the craft, and looked around. Then we noticed things were crawling out of the craft. At first I thought they were some type of alien spiders. Then I realized they were giant spores with legs. We each had guns that shot poison. The stream was about the strength of a super-soaker. It was killing them, but many of my men were dying, until finally, I was the only one left. Luckily most of the spores had been killed. Then I saw a walking mushroom coming from the east, pretty large. I starting spraying it with poison. It was making a high-pitched screaming noise, and slowly dissolving, but still alive. Then, from the west, another mushroom, but this one was 10 times larger, and it talked. It knew my name. It said "Jason, you cannot destroy me, and if you try, I will turn everything you use against you!" I ran out of poison, so I picked up a machine gun, and when I started shooting, a woman appeared in front of me to prevent me from wanting to shoot. Then the two mushrooms went to the East across this old, rickety bridge, and into the forest. I followed, covertly. Once, in the forest, I came across a few houses. The trees around the houses had a white fungus growing on them, and the residents were freaking out. They seemed to be hallucinating. I began to realize that they were probably seeing talking mushrooms, like I was, but in reality, the fungus is causing them to hallucinate. I thought maybe it was the fungus's way of enslaving mankind. I had to find out a way to destroy the fungus and not be hallucinating........that's when I woke up. dream_comments: I had taken mushrooms for my first time a week before this dream.I decided to never do them again. COMMENTS: __________________________________________________________________ ______ Message: 667-001 [ed.note: post deleted - non-dream content] __________________________________________________________________ ______ Message: 667-002 [ed.note: post deleted - non-dream content] __________________________________________________________________ ______ Message: 667-003 [ed.note: post deleted - non-dream content] __________________________________________________________________ ______ Message: 668-001 [ed.note: post deleted - non-dream content] __________________________________________________________________ ______ Message: 669-001 [ed.note: post deleted - non-dream content] __________________________________________________________________ ______ ____________________________________ -------------------- END DREAMS ----------------- -===-===-===-===-===-===-===-===-===-===-===-===-===- =---=---=---=---=---=---=---=---=---=---=---=---=---= ELECTRIC DREAMS ACCESS INFORMATION =---=---=---=---=---=---=---=---=---=---=---=---=---= -===-===-===-===-===-===-===-===-===-===-===-===-===- Subscriptions: The Electric Dreams E-zine (issn 1089 4284) is *free* and distributed via email about once a month. 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See http://www.dreamgate.com/dream/resources Z=Z=Z=Z=Z=Z=Z=Z=Z=Z=Z=Z=Z=Z=Z=Z=Z=Z=Z=Z=Z=Z=Z=Z=Z= The Electric Dreams Staff (Current) Z=Z=Z=Z=Z=Z=Z=Z=Z=Z=Z=Z=Z=Z=Z=Z=Z=Z=Z=Z=Z=Z=Z=Z=Z= Peggy Coats B Global Dreaming News & Calendar Events Director E-mail: web@dreamtree.com http://www.dreamtree.com Kathy Turner B Dreamworker List Moderator E-mail: rcwilk@dreamgate.com Phyllis Howling - Dream Wheel Moderator (eDreams list) E-mail: pthowing@earthlink.net Victoria Quinton Electric Dreams Archives & Reporter DreamChatters Host http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/dreamchatters mermaid 8*) E-mail: mermaid@alphalink.com.au http://www.alphalink.com.au/~mermaid Lars Spivock - Research and Development Director E-mail: lars@dreamgate.com Elizabeth Westlake - Dream Section Editor writer@mochamail.com http://www.DreamersOasis.com Richard Wilkerson - General Editor, Publisher, Articles Subscriptions & Publication E-mail: rcwilk@dreamgate.com http://www.dreamgate.com o|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|o All dream and article text and art are considered (C)opyright by the writers, artists and dreamers themselves. Anyone other than the authors may use or reprint the text for non-commercial use, but all other use by anyone other than the author must be with the permission of either the author or the current Electric Dreams publisher. o|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|o o|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|o DISCLAIMER: Electric Dreams is an independent electronic publication not affiliated with any other organization. The views of our commentators are personal views and not intended as professional advice or psychotherapy. o|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|+|o