Electric Dreams

Volume 2 Issue #9

28 July 1995


--For mailing list info, subscriptions, dreams and comments send to Cathy: <cathy@cassandra.ucr.edu>

--General comments, articles and ideas to Richard Wilkerson: <RCWilk@aol.com>

--For back issues and other access see




Editors' Notes & Day Residue

Questions & Answers on Dreaming

* New Section: Lucid Dreaming with Brenda Giguere *

Project Alert: The Alexandria Project

For The Donation & Preservation Of Dream Resources

Global Dreaming News - A monthy dream event update

ASD Update

Co-Creating a Dream Nation - Special Conference

Special Request for dreams: Research by Adams

Dream Study - Josepha Molina

Internet Projects for ASD 1996 Conference -Please note

A dream comic art review by stan kulikowski ii

New Dreaming & Internet Resources

Dream: "Lemur Dream" by Michael

Commentary on Michael's "Lemur Dream" by Jay

Commentary on "Lemur Dream" by Richard

Commentary on "Lemur Dream" by Shadow

Dream: "Conference Debris" by Richard

Commentary on "Conference Debris" by BobC

Commentary on "Conference Debris" by Jay

Commentary on "Conference Debris" by Shadow

Dream: "Second Marriage with Ann" by Jim

Commentary on "Second Marriage with Ann" by BobC

Dream: "Yellow Rose" --by Shadow

Ldream: " New York City -- the eternal playground"

by Scan

Dream: "Tidal Wave" by Rob

Commentary on "Tidal Wave" by BobC

Commentary on "Tidal Wave" by Marton

Dreams I. "Trip and Maze" by Viking

Dreams II. "Dick and Dave" by Viking

Dreams III. "Ski Farm Liability" by Viking

Commentary on Betsy's 'i am dead dream' by Shadow



Electric Dream Access Information




Though it may seem that we've become a monthy ezine, we really are planning to come out with a issue every two weeks! I want to thank all the dreamers for their patience and the commentators on the delightful responses this issue.

Please Welcome Brenda Giguere to our community. She is volunteering her time and expertise in Lucid Dreaming. So send in all your saved up LD dreams & questions for the next issue.

Be sure to check out the Alexandria Project, a wonderful archive designed for the donation & preservation of dream resources.

We also have a delightful array of news, projects and articles, resources and convention dates ranging from the most serious of research projects to the most comical of reviews. Dreams Away! Richard Wilkerson




======Question From Dan======

Hi, I was wondering if anyone else had the same experiences with the hierarchy of the senses in dreams ... I have found through analyzing my dream material with a home brew (filemaker) dream database that the senses are represented in this order: vision, hearing, touch, balance, taste, smell. Any thoughts?

======= reply from Brenda Giguere ============

Hello, Dan... great hearing from you with regard

to the representation of the senses in dreams.

I find it fascinating... so many people think of

dreams as just being visual, or maybe audio,

experiences only. But we know better!

You're not alone. The Lucidity Institute did

two studies which were reported in _NightLight_,

Spring 1994 (issue 6.1), and yes! people do

have sensory experiences in dreams. From a

high of 96% for the visual element to a still

significant low of 54% for movement, here's

the "stuff dreams are made of" in order of

prevailence: sight, sound, odor, taste, temp,

pain, touch, movement. Anyone interested in

reading the entire research update should get

a hold of that issue and get the whole story

on what those numbers mean, etc.

The Institute just did another interesting

study, this one on touch sensations in dreams.

This study focused on the intensity, discomfort,

and pleasure of three types of touch-- namely

a pinch, a caress, and a press (in Waking,

Imagination, and Dreaming). Subjects pinched

their arm, caressed their arm hairs lightly,

and pressed their fingers at the base of the

thumb... The next issue of NightLight will have

the research summary of that study (if I can

pull myself away from all this Electric Dream

cyberfun and turn in my second draft...)

Multisensory dreams!

Brenda Giguere


All you dreamers out there might give yourself

a fun challenge to notice the sensory elements

of your dreams, if you don't do so already!

=== Ponderings and Questions from Art ====

I'm very interesting in dream interpretation, as I am plagued by them. I wish I could say that I experience happy, wonderful dreams, but rather fearful and even morbid dreams and this has been the case all my life. Many if not most involve being chased by some people, usually deemed to be some sort of authority (in one dream they were actually supposed to be sheriffs) while I searched through show boxes of junk for something that I might be able to use. In another, darker dream, I am still being chased though I can not see my pursuers, and my mother (who is dead in real life) is known to be helping "them." An ex-girlfriend, also dead in real life, hands me my leather motorcycle jacket and pants and tells me to get on my motorcycle (a Harley, which I do not have, merely desire) and "get out of town".

Now all this may be rather long winded but I do not believe that being chased by supposed sheriffs in a dream means I am a criminal. In astrology a planet in a certain house may have a certain meaning -- such as Venus in the first indication beauty and outward social grace --and I am sure that the pursuers MEAN something or stand for something. In similar form I do not think that like Hamlet I will be visited by ghosts. A cluster of small buildings containing junk or old dark houses in disrepair MEAN something. Whether they are archetypes as in the zodiac or Freudian or whatever, maybe it could help me to find out what they mean. I'm open minded to it.






A stunning and vital idea, this collective cyberdream! As a long time lucid dreamer and writer, I'm excited about this new opportunity for the exchange of information about my favorite "topic-within-a-topic" in this corner of Electric Dreams.

Lucid dreaming has been part of my life for many years, and particularly in the last couple of years has been my primary interest as a subject.

* * * * *

WHAT IS LUCID DREAMING? There are a lot of definitions of Lucid Dreaming floating around out there, most of them being wide of the mark. Lucid Dreaming means knowing that you're dreaming WHILE you are asleep and dreaming. This is usually in REM sleep. Lucidity affords the dreamer conscious choice and awareness in the dream state for a variety of purposes. It is a mental technique that can be learned, and is enjoyed by more and more people every day... better than the best Virtual Reality there is. (What computer has anything close to the potential of the human brain-mind?) My basic thesis is that Lucid Dreaming is a valuable adjunct to any kind of approach to understanding and/or enjoying dreams you may currently employ.

* * * * *

Here's what I think is a vivid example of how Lucidity

changed a dream-- dramatically-- for the better.


My week had been one of long work hours and little time to myself. Sure, I had some personal concerns that needed addressing sooner or later, but thinking about such things was a luxury that would clearly have to wait. It wasn't like they were earth-shattering problems or anything. Like most people, I had my hands full sometimes just taking care of the logistical details of modern living.

It was another late night... I dragged myself into bed and fell to sleep almost immediately. My need for REM sleep was apparently accumulating that week because in well under an hour I was already dreaming away. I found myself standing in a darkened room, and since I couldn't remember how I had gotten there, I realized I was dreaming: always a delightful realization for me when it happens! But what to do in this lucid dream? Since I hadn't deliberately induced it, I had no agenda. The first thing that occurred to me was an erotic encounter. Sure; why not? After all, It was my dream. But first, I would check in a mirror and make sure I was suitably groomed for such an event (or at least to see if it was me in the mirror!) Stepping into my convincingly real bathroom, I saw an equally convincing image of myself.

The next step would be to conjure my dream companion for

that night's adventure. Hmm; that shouldn't be a problem.

Soon I had something in mind...

Suddenly, with no warning whatsoever, my (nice-person-in-

waking-life) sister came screaming at me in what seemed a

nearly psychotic rage. My first impulse was to create a

door against the attack and keep her away, which I did,

feeling all her strength pounding against that door. No one wants to be attacked or injured, and I'm no exception. How absolutely maddening this turn of events was! Why on earth was this suddenly happening?

Almost as soon as these thoughts formed, I realized their

inherent absurdity. It was a dream, after all, and as such I had nothing to fear from an attack by a chimerical

representation of my sister. Then it occurred to me I could go a step further, and I released my resistance to the door, stepping back.

Into the bathroom my dream-sister came, eyes shining in rage and fists clenched, screaming wordlessly at me. It still was bothering me that this was happening. This was wasting valuable dream time when I had, well. . . other plans! But clearly something else was afoot here.

It took great effort, but I relaxed my dream-ego's arms to my sides and stared into her face, offering no resistance.

Then I spoke, saying, "You are my sister, and this may be

happening in my dream for a reason." She stopped, relaxing her arms as well. Without waiting for anything else to happen I went forward to her, and gave her a strong hug. As I did so, I felt all her rage drain away, and was filled with a powerful unifying and peaceful sensation. As I did so, I felt a new set of interpretive ideas in my consciousness, after which the dream faded and I woke up.

Although the personal details of my interpretation are

important to me, their specifics are unimportant to this

discussion. Suffice to say the experience left me with two important things: a deeply satisfied emotional state, and some provocative new thoughts to ponder about my current life.

* * *

It seems pretty clear to me that my lucidity played a really important role in what I feel was an unusually powerful dream experience. The dream would have been psychologically important and interesting to me if it had been non-lucid (in other words, if I'd never figured out I was dreaming). But as it happened, the dream was even more valuable. Not only did I have some highly personal symbolism and personal issue ideas to work with, but I had a deeply satisfying and even integrating experience. Non-lucidly I would have fought with my dream-sister in all likelihood, eventually waking up from a highly unpleasant dream. Lucidity elevated the dream into an opportunity to connect with a part of myself-- in an almost profound way-- that had clear significance for me

in my life at the time. The key difference was my knowledge I was dreaming, and using that knowledge to make choices in the dream.

I think of this dream now whenever I listen to people voice concerns about Lucid Dreaming when they are new to the idea, as it sometimes happens. Lucid Dreaming is a learnable technique that can be an incredible tool regardless of how you like to explore your dreams, but it can make dreamwork people nervous. It's that word "control". But as you see, you can make useful choices, and as you can also see, the dream can still surprise you! Over and over again, I'm glad I have Lucid Dreaming available to me to put my mind right there where the dream is. . . and in real time, too. Lucid Dreaming presents diverse possibilities from hedonistic to spiritual, and everything in between!

All the Best Dreams...

Fiat lux,



Want to talk about Lucid Dreaming? That's mainly why I'm

here. As for all other dream material sent to ELECTRIC

DREAMS, you should send your Lucid Dream comments,

questions, and experiences to Cathy, INDICATING that they

relate to Lucid Dreaming. Her address is:


I also want to mention a terrific resource. There is an

organization I dearly love called the LUCIDITY INSTITUTE

that focuses on Lucid Dreaming. I do not work for them and am not here because of them, but I personally urge anyone interested in the subject to consider contacting these delightful and educated people for more information. They publish a newsletter, do research projects on Lucid Dreaming, have workshops, and more.

The LUCIDITY INSTITUTE's phone number is:

1-800-GO LUCID

Or in the CA. BAY AREA: (415) 321-9969

Their web site, with lots of great info, is:







The Alexandria Project

For The Donation & Preservation Of Dream Resources


The Alexandria Project is named after the famous library in Egypt (founded ca. 300 B.C.) which stored the collective wisdom of the Hellanistic world. At this point in history, there has been a resurgence of dream materials from a broad spectrum of sources. Today we can gather a wide variety of information and knowledge on the subject of dreams. Due to modern technology, we have an unparalleled opportunity and responsibility to keep these materials available for the present and safe for the future. The long-term goal for this collection is to use electronic means to scan, duplicate and access these materials.

The fact is that the dream resources of our age are

vanishing due to the lack of a central collection point.

Dreamers and dreamworkers are producing and collecting dream materials which have no place to go where people who care about dreams can access them now and in the future. The Alexandria Project is the remedy to that situation.

Specifically what is needed now?

Dream-related Materials:

Books, hardcover and soft, dream inspired fiction and

nonfiction, adult and children, which have at least one

chapter on dreams. Rare books, welcome for the archive.

Unpublished manuscripts including bachelor, master and

doctoral theses. Conference papers, term papers, published and unpublished articles. Pamphlets and bookets. Newspaper clippings, dream cartoons and notecards. Short stories, poetry and sheet music. Periodicals, both current and past.

Teaching materials, resumés, business cards or a personal

statement of how you work or play with dreams. Flyers, past and present, including xerox copies. Audio tapes, video tapes and cds of dream-related music. Photos, colored xerox and slides of dreamworkers, events and art. Dream-inspired art and incubation materials. Dream-related products and devices.


Money to acquire precious materials available only through purchase. Funding to assure non-profit status.

Materials donated to the Alexandria Project go to the

Dream Library and Archive located at the Novato Center For

Dreams in Novato, California. Both the Project and the Dream Library and Archive have been in existence since 1990. Novato Center For Dreams was founded in 1987. The Dream Library includes an on-site reference library available by appointment and a lending library. The Archive houses on-site rare or fragile materials which receive special care and handling. Once the library holdings reached 1000 titles, momentum and interest from the dreaming community increased dramatically.

How have people become involved in this project so far? Donated used books from their own collections, especially at time of moving and spring cleaning. Offered complimentary autographied copies of their works. Sent copies of past and current flyers or brochures. Given complimentary dream products. Donated subscriptions to a dream periodical or a set of back issues. Scouted for unaquired titles in their own area or while traveling. Contributed a piece of dream art for wall display. Recommended materials for inclusion in collection. Posted project requests and placed Center on their mailing list. Visited the Center and took advantage of the opportunity to informally document themselves and their work via photograph, audio and video tape. Duplicated slides for the slide registry. Separated their dream books etc from other books and sent a list of dream materials owned to the Center. Volunteered time at the Center; do data entry. Sorted out dream materials for donation at a later date. Made bequests and included the Dream Library and Archive during estate planning.

How can I donate?

Send materials to Jill Gregory, Director of the Dream

Library & Archive, Novato Center For Dreams,PO BOX / (415) 897-7955 or Linda Lane Magallón,

1083 Harvest Meadow Court, San José, CA 95126 / (408) 266- 5397. For donations by electronic means, e-mail Richard Wilkerson at <rwilkerson@igc.apc.org>

To volunteer for the project, please contact Jill Gregory. Available for volunteers are further information on this project, a wish list of materials desired and a current list of holdings. Join us in collecting and preserving our dream gifts and wisdom for all of us ... now and for the future!



GLOBAL DREAMING NEWS -Special _Electric Dreams_ edition











ASD 12 in New York

The reports that have been coming in about the conference indicate that, as usual, it was a great success and provided a delighful asarray of events, seminars, projects and talks that covered the full spectrum of dreaming.

If you want to share your experience of the conference, send your reviews into the editor of IIDCC Global Dream News.

ASD 13 in Oakland, California

The next ASD International Conference will be July 9-14 , 1996. Deadline for Submissions for the conference is December 15, 1995.

(source: ASD Newsletter, 12(2), Spring)

Also, if you are interested in information on how to

join ASD and receive a quarterly journal _Dreaming_ ,

the quarterly newsletter _ASD Newsletter_ and some

cuts on conference rates, just send your request

snail mail to:ASD P.O. Box 1600 Vienna, VA 22183



A Gathering for Exploring Our Dreams Amidst the Charm &

Tranquility of Asklepia Wilderness Retreat near Grants

Pass and Wilderville, OR, USA.

September 17-23, 1995

A Special week-long Event utilizing "Emergent Design"

Sufficient structure(s), speakers, resource persons

will be scheduled; ultimately, we will heal, co-create

and offer support to one another!

Offer to share your special expertise & experience via

facilitating a group; we will have a full week for

dreamsharing & sharing information and visions for the

future of the Field of Dreams.

Approximate Costs:

Deposit of $200 by June 30, Cost $425

Pilgrimage to Aesculapia Wilderness Retreat will be the

responsibility of each participant.

15 work-scholarships available.

For More Information:

1. See DREAM NETWORK JOURNAL 14(1&2), pp. 67-68

2. Write Dream Network for more detailed information

% PO Box 1026, Moab, UT 84532 ph:801.259.5936

(Source: Dream Network Journal vol 14 #1&2)




Michael Adams is completing a book _The Multicultural

Imagination: "Race," Color and the Unconscious_ which

will be published by Routledge in 1996.

The book will include a section on what he is calling

"color-change" dreams (which he presented at the 1993

ASD conference in Santa Fe as "Racial Identity Dreams".

M. Adams is now asking that anyone willing to share

dreams where they have color-change. These dreams need

to be sent with permission to publish as they might be

included in his book.

"I would appreciate receiving from you dreams in which

the dreamer or any other figure in the dream changes

color or 'race.' I would also be grateful for any

associations or interpretations that you would be

willing to share. I would also need to know the 'race'

(or ethnicity), age and sex of the dreamer. Please let

me know if you would like to be acknowledged and

credited by name in the book or if you would prefer to

remain anonymous." Michael Vannoy Adams

Please send all dreams through email



***** ____________ DREAM STUDY ____________ *****

I am looking for women participants who are interested in being a part of a dream study. This research is partial fulfillment for my dissertation reasearch at the California Institute for Integral Studies in San Francisco, Ca.

If you are a woman -

****** over 18

****** & do not currently take medication that affects sleep or dreaming

****** & remember your dreams at least once a week

****** & would be willing to fill out several survey forms

****** & would be willing to record five dreams over a four week period of time

please e-mail me at josefa@lanminds.com with a return e-mail. I will get

back to you and if you are interested, I will mail you the instructions and

forms for the study.

Josefa Molina, MFCC


Josefa Molina

San Francisco, CA


If you would like a subscription to IIDCC Global Dreaming

News or if you want to sumbit news to IIDCC Global

News, send to Richard Wilkerson email address





dream comics and the possibilites of dream comic journals

by stan kulikowski ii



_the sandman_ was neil gaiman's breakthrough into the big time comic publications. now he virtually controls a major chunk of the trade as a subsidiary of DC (one of the big two with Marvel). although i buy maybe $100 in comics every month, i was never much taken with the early _sandman_ series. i would buy one occasionally but never enough to continue the stories until this last one "the kindly ones". i liked the manner in which the main characters interact with the dream characters who have developed a

nice sense of depth. i will probably trace that series backwards now to see when they started getting good. perhaps i just missed the value in the writing earlier-- i will see. the new story "the wake" is on the stands right now, it picks up with the death of the dreamlord, most of his supernatural family coming together with some mortals. meanwhile the new dreamlord is reestablishing the dreaming after its near destruction. if you are interested you can pick them up as trade journals. instead of collecting each issue individually like i do, they put out the entire story under one cover like a graphic novel. i see them fairly often in the comic shops. that is probably how i will

bracktrack that series to see where it got good.

i have some credentials as a comic artist myself-- even been published a couple times in local publications. i have thought about producing some of my more general audience style dreams into panel art, but the amount of work always seems prohibitive. first, i believe we would need to start with a dreamlog as the surest method of capturing the dream, then use that as a script for the panel expressions. i don't think it would be very meaningful unless the cartoon artist was the dreamer to get some visual

authenticity in the image work. most cartoonists i have known produce personal works which they don't publish and some of them naturally contain dream material. the problem i see in doing dream material in panel art as a general continuing form is the great amount of work it takes to capture the visual elements in a coherent sequence.

remember when you first started a dreamlog? there is a language barrier which has to be overcome in getting dream memories into linguistic form for preservation. i think this is some cognitive effect that our normal language production system usually does not originate from the memory where dreams are stored or produced. it seems to take some effort initially to develop the language needed to speak about dreams, even though the final language is just like our everyday language when we have dreamlogging set up as an on going activity. once we develop the linguistic channels out of dreamland into text, we seem to become more fluent in it and it becomes easier. less struggling to get some half-remembered fragment of dream memory into an expressible phrase.

the problem i see in panel art for that process is that cartooning is very slow and labor intensive activity. sure, we have the advantage of going from image to drawing directly, but the effort in composing the drawing is many times greater than the similar effort in framing dream into speech stream. most people who sleep together tell their dreams in the morning. few would get up and draw them. comics are a special combination of words and drawings which tell a story together in a manner which either alone cannot do as well. i am afraid that on trying to layout a dream sequence like a comic, it would take so long that the heart of the dream would be lost... or the cartoonist would spend all day at the drawing table after rolling out of bed. it really seems to me the best sequence will be dream -> dreamlog -> comic with the language element imposing its order before the visual elements get to drawing.

i have thought about putting the 'breaking up is hard' dream (see electric dreams vol. 2 #3) as a panel story, or maybe that first 'brick wall' lucid dream (coming up next issue) (which would be technically very easy since there is only me and a building to draw.) then comes the problem of how to publish. if each panel gets its own .gif file, then we need a slide viewer to keep them in sequence, and the byte size of the total thing gets big fast. if a strip or page is the distributable object, then resolution of the thing on a monitor would be a concern in the art production. comic artists have a necessary feel for the final production media when starting out the first penciling of layout.

oh, there is another comic that just started about dreamwork. it is called _metaphysique_ or something like that. it is about a young college kid whose father is a dream researcher. between classes, he is one of the research subjects who have been trained in lucidity but his father has a lot of restrictions on what they can do when they are out of the lab. particularly they are not associate with other research subjects, but the kid has the hots for this girl from india, so he is sneaking out to see her. also they are beginning to use lucidity for astral projection so they can get into each others' dreams... so far so good. but unfortunately the kids are using their lucid control to turn themselves into superheroes who fly through the air and rescue people from disasters.

they have just established that at least the boy can effect realtime objects while in his dreamtime, but the girl can just watch and talk with him. her hands pass through solid objects while his can or cannot as he wills it. undoubtedly there will be some bashing supervillians with the fists and mystical powerbolts. what a waste. after setting the research basis of lucid dreaming, it seems to be descending into just more costumed x-men with silly names and silly powers.

i would now recommend "the kindly ones" _the sandman_ (for grown ups with eccentric tastes) but not _metaphysique_ (unless you like juvenile conflict resolution).

Editor's note: There is also a comic book devoted to the sharing of dreams called "Roarin' Rick's Rare Bit Friends" which is reviewed by Jeremy Taylor in the last ASD newsletter 12(2) pg. 8. Subscriptions are $24.00 for 6 issues. Checks payable to "King Hell Press" POB 1371, West Townsend, VT 05359-1371

Also, for more _Sandman_ stuff try the web site "A Page of Dreams" URL:





WWWeb site:

DREAMLINK is a new site where dreams & comments on dreams can be entered, information on dreams and dreaming located and guest dreamworkers are featured. The graphics are state of the art, and though parts of the site are still under construction, there is still enough working to make it worth a visit. I figure that any site that is willing to have me as a featured guest must be a really wonderful place. - Richard

URL: http://www.iag.net:80/~hutchib/.dream/


This resource has actually been available for some time, but has reecently been upgraded quite a bit and if you haven't visited for awhile you will be pleasantly surprised. Dreams and comments may now be entered and the index & links to other Web sites with dreaming related material have been expanded and put in an easy to use form.





If you have computer or internet dream projects for the 1996 Association for the Study of Dreams Conference, or are interested in participating either via internet or directly in Oakland at the Claremont Hotel, please contact:

Richard Wilkerson at <rwilkerson@igc.apc.org>





==== Dream "Lemur Dream" by Michael ====

I was in my house (But jungle type growth was coming out of the walls) and seemed to be lost and very hungry. The next thing I remember is a Ring tailed lemur, came along and started to talk to me. Spotting what looked like chicken chicks, the lemur suggested that I catch them and eat them, using a net (like a child's fishing net) I caught one but decided to let it go.

Then the lemur (which now seems like a close friend) begins to die, and says there is no hope unless I can get it into the washing machine. I try to do it but I just seem to keep pulling out endless supplies of washing. The lemur then died making a comforting comment, and I was very upset.

==== Commentary on Michael's "Lemur Dream" by jay ====

if this were my dream...

i feel like the lemur is a part of me telling myself that i am hungry for, or lacking something, represented by the chicks. but i don't want to consume or incorporate the chicks. could chicks be the feminine in myself or female companionship? what things do chicks remind me of?

then i am unable to cleanse myself because of the amounts of (dirty?) laundry i have. or perhaps i am trying to clean up for the external world, this nocturnal wilder part of myself.

i am upset because i didn't take better care of my lemur part of myself.

i like the image of the house turning into a jungle, sort of like the children's book, 'where the wild things are', and the image of this quiet nocturnal furry wide eyed lemur.

as usual, only the dreamer knows for sure.

==== Commentary on Michael's "Lemur Dream" by Richard ====

In my dream I am in the structure where I usually live, though it is more wild.

I have hunger and can't get my bearings. Then the Lemur. Lemur is from the Greek "lamuros" and means hunger or open jaws. The lamiai is also closely associated and is a ghost that at night devours children. But in my dream the hunger manifest more friendly, as a Ring-tailed Lemur, a night creature named after these things, perhaps unfairly? Still, it follows its natural way and suggests how the desire may find its object. Even the hunting tool and the object is suggested. But this isn't what I want, and the Lemur begins to die. If I could just wash out the **** maybe I could bring it back to life. It is, after all, my friend. But the machine for washing things is filled with dirty laundry. How did it accumulate so much dirty laundry? The Lemur dies, whispering a comment to me that despite its comfort give me no solace.

I begin to wonder what would happen if I went back and followed the suggestions of the Lemur less literally. What if the Lemur is my hunger for that which I can barely say, and the hunger itself is giving me clues to move towards the object of my desire? In this dream, for me, that might be the tool, the child's net. Hmmm, just like Jesus, telling people that they can't get what they want unless they become like children. Nice metaphor, a child's net. And what about the object of my desire? Here there is a split in me between what the Lemur wants and what I want. The lemur sees the chicks, but I want...what? In trying to find this lost desire, it begins to fade and die. My fantasy of cleaning up the desire doesn't work, and the Lemur is lost. Can't I have what I want and have the Lemur cleaned at the same time?

In alchemy, washing was a process towards the transmutation of baser materials into finer substances. Its as if I want this too, but the load seems to full right now. Whatever "machine" in me it is that cleans up the animal nature or resuscitates it,.. well, its too busy - as if I need to access something *faster* to keep that animal alive. But there are heroic fantasies and I can't control the fading of the lemur. Perhaps it is just dissolving back into the solution and will return again. Maybe it knows this and that's why it could give words of comfort. Next time that hunger returns, I want to be able to access my real desire faster and go prepared, hunting again with my Lemur friend.

Nice dream. Great story. Thanks for sharing this with us. Richard

==== Commentary on "Lemur Dream" by Shadow ====

If this were my dream:

My house, the familiar (but with natural, wild, primal growth all around). I am lost and hungry, seeking and searching for something...

From the wilderness comes my animal guide, a small creature that has large eyes (he can see what I cannot). He is more in touch with our origins and primal needs and desires. He shows me a destination and provides me with a means to get there, but I cannot consume innocence (become innocent again).

The Lemur offers an alternative. He, being more basic (unconscious) can reach back into the realm of innocence. In fact, he must, or a part of me will be lost. I must use the washing machine to cleanse him. Ah, but first there is so much in the washing machine that must be removed. I wonder if I have already washed it? No time to check. I must get my guide, my Lemur into the machine NOW! I remove the endless supplies of washing. Why didn't I take care of this before? Ugh, the Lemur dies while I am still working to free the space I need in the washing machine! I am upset. Why did I leave so much to be washed for so long? Did all that really need to be washed? I'll bet I could have worn some of it again. The Lemur could have lived, being reborn clean and more in touch with our innocence. This is one of many possibilities.


==== Dream: "Conference Debris" by Richard ====

I'm at a dream conference and a couple dozen of us have just finished the first project. It was some kind of spontaneous event. But now the moderator, a well known phenomenological dream clinician, is being a bossy leader. We take a break and I hang out with a lesbian couple. We talk about their relationship and discuss joint projects. Soon there is a call to come back to the main hall and clean up the last project, which has left a couple of feet of broken concrete and dust all over the floor. Again the moderator is bossing us around and I feel he is using his moral authority to bully us all into working on this project. Outside, heavy equipment arrives to load the concrete debris.

==== Commentary on "Conference Debris" by BobC ====

As the dream begins, something spontaneous has occurred; i.e., the first dream project. "It was some kind of spontaneous event. But now the moderator, a well known phenomenological dream clinician, is being a bossy leader." Possibly, what may have occurred through the dream analysis process is that an insight may have broken through the dreamer's defense against it. That is to say, the dreamer's "well known phenomenological dream clinician" may in fact be a symbol of his own dream mind prodding him to do something with the insight. The dreamer may not see the insight as an advancement. He may indeed see it as leaving a mess. "Soon there is a call to come back to the main hall and clean up the last project, which has left a couple of feet of broken concrete and dust all over the floor." Could the broken concrete be symbolic of a crumbled defense mechanism? The vignette with the lesbians may be a clue that the insight may concern the dreamer's relationships with women.

Lesbians substitute intimate relationships with women for intimate relationships with men. In the dream the dreamer is discussing a "joint project" with lesbians. Presumably the joint project concerns dream analysis. In effect, the dreamer can connect with the lesbians on an intellectual basis without having to be concerned about the joint project involving into an intimate relationship. A joint is a connection. It is also a term used in a slang sense to connote a phallus. Possibly the dream conflict concerns the dreamer's need to forge intimate ties with members of the opposite sex, but fearing at the same time that he will become subservient or "bossed" around if he becomes cognizant of that need.

If the dreamer disagrees with the above interpretation, then it is wrong. Only the dreamer knows. Bob C.

==== Commentary on "Conference Debris" by Jay ====

as usual, i take the bossy leader and the lesbian couple to represent parts of myself. seems like i prefer the approach of the couple to that of the leader.

the character of the debris distresses me. this does not appear to be the leftover clutter of a productive project but rather the ruins of a powerful force destroying a sturdy project built of concrete.

i feel like this is a warning dream.

======Commentary on "Conference Debris" by Shadow========

If this were my dream I would see the conference and first project as the spontaneous gifts that dreams offer. As for the moderator and the lesbian couple...Wouldn't it be interesting to sit them down together and discuss their different approaches. Why do I feel comfortable talking with the feminine and not the masculine? The concrete debris would suggest that the first project has broken through. Perhaps this is where the connection with the lesbians was made. Once through cleaning up I should approach the moderator and talk with him. It would be helpful too, if the lesbian couple could be with us. I see a connection being made on one hand, and a rift growing on the other. Its one of many possibilities.


==== Dream: "Second Marriage with Ann" by Jim ====

Some background would be helpful - I have been married to Ann for nearly 26 years and it is my first marriage. I have never been married to anyone else. We have one son

who is 20 years old.


1995 June 19 4:25 am

I was on a college campus, with long avenues and broad grassy lawns without trees and sidewalks. I was on a street with some trees on it. For some reason I needed go get something, so I went to the other side of the street, and went up the street and came back. I don't remember much of what this was about. However, I remember this somewhere in the dream:

I was in a room in a fancy building. I got myself a room or suite. I saw that the US President was in a building about 500 feet away, and that next to me was this woman's room. It was open to the outside. I overheard her talk about things.

When I came back I met Ann and my son at this place on the avenue, in front of a white building. My son and Ann were going to go in the building to do some things. But they were mainly talking. I showed up with running clothes and said I was going to change and run. But Ann and my son delayed me with talk. I got impatient and finally I decided to go on anyway. After that moment it started to pour rain. I wondered how I was going to run now. Ann said it's raining now. I thought to myself. I have run many times in the rain before.

So I waited some and decided to go on in the building. I went by myself but got met by Ann there.

We went to a table to eat a really fancy supper in a restaurant or other fancy place, at which other than waiters the only people there were Ann and I. My son was not there. The place was narrow, surrounded by white curtains that resembled huge napkins. The floor was a normal light pine wood shellacked floor. I started to talk as the waitress gave us good wine, a dry wine. Ann was dressed in a white dress similar to the one she wore to one of those college formals. The waitress congratulated us.

It was because we were about to get married. Or else we just got married and this was the reception. Nobody else was around, not even my son. I thought about our marriage. The waitress asked if this was our first marriage. I replied it was my second marriage, or at least it seemed that way to me. I remembered that I was married before to someone else. Furthermore, now I was in my forties.

Then I wondered. It seemed I had forgotten about that first marriage. And it dawned on me whether I should be doing this with Ann now. Did I divorce my first wife? Was I still married to her? I thought about it and I could not remember exactly who she was, although the woman I dated in 1967 before I met Ann came to my mind right away. I remember having had no divorce decrees with her. I must still be married to her, so I just left her with out breaking up the marriage formally. It made me wonder about my marriage with Ann, whether I was clear to do that.

Jim (jblwers@richmond.infi.net or jblowers@aol.com)

==== Commentary on "Second Marriage with Ann" by BobC ====

As the dream begins the dreamer has placed himself in a learning situation (i.e. the college campus) and crosses over a line (i.e. the street) to get or find something he needs. The dreamer next sees himself not far from a powerful position (i.e. the President) and next to a woman who is "open to the outside." (If this woman is not Ann, then could the symbolism refer to the fact that the dreamer feels his wife is not open to outside stimuli or that at some level he feels she is too self-absorbed)?

The dreamer next meets his wife and son on an avenue in front of a white building. He is clearly ready to change and run, and he feels delayed (impeded and/or stalled?) because of them. (is this feeling true at the emotional level for the dreamer)? As soon as he decides to leave his wife and son, however, it starts to rain. The deamer tells himself he has run in the rain many times before, but this vignette may be symbolic of the dreamer's fear that if he does "act out" he will be in for stormy emotional weather.

The dreamer next enters the white building by himself, and finds his wife Ann without their son. They go to a fancy restaurant with white curtains. Ann is wearing a white dress. The waitress congratulates them on their marriage.

There is no one else around. The dreamer thinks it is his second marriage but he cannot remember his first wife.. The symbolism of white may refer to a wish fantasy. The dreamer wants to start over (inasmuch as brides wear white and christening outfits are white, the color is often associated with new beginnings. A wedding with the same wife but without the baggage of family and/or neighborhood relationships and children could be symbolic of the dreamer's desire for a "new start in life," a desire that is not strange in the perspective of middle age. Possibly the dreamer perceives his wife as

having changed so much over their 26 years of marriage that it does seem to him that she has changed into a different person.

The dreamer, however, is of a double-mind about the degree of change. He can't remember his first wife. Is he still married to her? (The concern may be is he still married to the original Ann, or has she grown? In short, which Ann is really his wife, the woman with the son who delayed the dreamer from changing and running, or the women in the restaurant?

If the dreamer disagrees with the above interpretation, it is wrong. Only the dreamer knows. Bob C.

==== Dream: "Yellow Rose" --by Shadow ====

I am in an ancient, Catholic, castle-like place. There is a hallway with cobblestone floors. Along the walls are several heavy wooden doors that lead to personal chambers. In one of the rooms is a woman named Rose. I don't know exactly what type of facility this is but she is a patient here. I have a piece of yellow chalk in my hand. I crush the chalk and use the chalk dust to draw a line straight down the hallway. Now there are three Big men in dark suits (Power Suits) standing in the hallway with me. They did not see me draw the line. I say to them, "See, Rose did this." To which they respond, "Oh, out little rose did this huh? Now we should let her go?" I know that they have no intention of letting her go and that brings about anger in me. I very much wanted her to be free. I end up mopping up the chalk line while I watch a younger man scheme with the three Power Suits. This evokes even more anger.

==== Commentary on "Yellow Rose" by Marian ====

I find I am getting somewhat frustrated reading and considering dreams without knowing anything about the dreamer, even their sex. But hopefully, using the method, "what this dream means to me" will relate to the dreamer also. If this were my dream I would think of the woman named Rose as a symbol of the feminine, a beautiful flower, a symbol of love. The beautiful feminine is trapped in a male dominated place of great

power. The Big men are wearing power suits and they are in a building that is like a Catholic castle-- very imposing, with a powerful and judgmental believe system that has been around since ancient times.

You draw a yellow line down the center of the hall with chalk. I associate this with the yellow line of a highway, a line that gives direction - which side to drive on, it is or is not safe to pass. You say Rose has drawn the line, assuming that if they think she has made this decisive action they will let her go. They won't. Even a young men is scheming with them. Even young men are a part of this male domination- it is not just the old establishment types. Mopping up- Erasing the line, it didn't work, giving up, feeling angry.

As a woman I would see Rose as representing my feminine self. If the dreamer is male, I would guess it represents his feminine aspect, sensitivity, appreciation of beauty, etc., that is not allowed to be expressed by the male dominated society.

==== Ldream:" New York City-the eternal playground" by Scan ====

I am flying over a large city with many tall buildings. I look down, and I recognize the twin world trade towers. All of a sudden, I say to myself, My God, I am dreaming. I feel ecstatic. I tell myself to keep on dreaming so as to maintain the ecstatic feeling. I look down more carefully. I have a strange feeling that I am over a city in both the future and the ancient past. An idea comes into my head, this is an eternal playground for the gods and goddesses. They will always protect the city. The Goddess of Liberty is here as a guardian. I start to remember something from the ancient past, and

start weeping with joy. At that point, I woke up, still in tears.

==== Dream: "Tidal Wave" by Rob ====

I am on the shore by the ocean and I look out at the water to see it is almost dry...there are a lot of boats sitting there in the mud and the ocean has gone out very far. I look back along the road and see a massive tidal wave heading straight for me. I run down a side street and kick down the door of a house to get in and have some cover. I go into the house and see a person I know . I tell them about the tidal wave and to take cover.

Nothing ends up happening and at some point later I'm on the road talking to a friend of mine. I end up trying to get back home going from balcony to balcony because the water level is very high up. June 25/95

I don't know if I am supposed to say what I think of this dream in this post but I'll just say that I'm prone to swings of behavior, and mood. Also the person I see in the house is not a close friend but I do know he is born on the same day as me ( I don't pay attention to astrology either)

(Editor's note: Rob heard about us on an astrology newsgroup)

==== Commentary on "Tidal Wave" by BobC ====

The dream begins with the dreamer seeing a receding ocean and boats stuck in the mud. This may symbolize that there is a situation in the dreamer's life that has deteriorated or grown worse, and there are no means at hand to get away from the situation. As he looks back the dreamer sees a tidal wave about to engulf him. The tidal wave could be symbolic of something in the dreamer's past that he feels is capable of destroying him if he doesn't do something to escape (his past). The dreamer runs down a side street and kicks in the door of a house to find some kind of cover. The symbolism here may indicate that the dreamer is trying to deal with the situation in a temporary fashion. He does not try to escape the past by moving forward, or to stand up to the past by moving backward; the dreamer moves sideways. In the house the dreamer meets someone who has the same birth date as himself. Possibly this symbolizes that the dreamer finds temporary safety by becoming another "self." Most people adopt roles to suit different situations in their life (spouse, boss, friend, etc.), but it may be significant that the dreamer has to kick the door down to get into this particular house. The role he "entered" to find temporary refuge may be difficult for him to "get into." At the conclusion of the dream the dreamer has to move from balcony to balcony to escape the high water level. This may be a message from the dream mind that the dreamer can cope with whatever the conflict is by "rising above his past," and taking the "high road." It may also be necessary, depending on how far apart the balconies are, to take "leaps of faith." Taking the high road is dangerous because, If the dreamer slips, the past will engulf him.

As always, if the dreamer disagrees with the above interpretation, that it is wrong. Only the dreamer knows. Bob

==== Commentary on "Tidal Wave" by Marton ====

This dream would be typical of me. It happens quite a lot that I am depressed and I feel bad. Whenever I see the ocean being angry it means that I will have hard time in the next days. The ocean is my soul, my energy, of most fundamental kind. I would like to know how to restore my ocean, to fill it up. That would be a question and aim. Dry means lack of energy. But why? You probably feel 'stuck' in your life or in crisis as the ships are sitting.

Dreams seems to point out an effort to reach 'home' ,that is, myself, what I want to be or could be ideally. Who could help me in that? Well, I meet someone who I know. There is a communication going on. I would say it is a good sign. How could I keep that going? What is telling me? How can this be translated into practical deeds?

Is it possible that he cannot help? Because I am jumping from balcony to balcony.. I am still in danger.

House could represent my believes, ;'my castle' where I go back when in trouble. I am changing my believes often to cope with moodyness? Jumping from balcony to balcony would imply that.

What do I think about the world? I think the house is the key to this. What kind of house is this? Parental, or my own..Where did I see such a house. What about balcony? From the house and balcony I should able to find out in what way my current life is unsatisfactory which causes me run away. There is a seemingly uninteresting 'kicking down the door of a house.'

Where did I do that in my life? and why?

Question: How would it change the feelings of your dream if you tried to sail with one of the boats? Or What would I need in my dream to make it good? e.g. what if I had a helicopter or a better ship or an ally or a radio which would tell me on danger in time?

Good Luck..

==== Dreams I. "Trip and Maze" by Viking ====

I was in some kind of building like a hotel with a group of people who I think I may have known, but I am not sure. We were walking along hallways and back corridors, it was very mazelike. Finally we came to a steep staircase in a kind of domed building. I went up the stairs and was in an airport terminal. My mother was there and I met her to say goodbye as she was going on a long trip. I told her to be careful and she said she would be and that she would call me from each place she went to. We kissed goodbye and I went down the stairs. When I got to the bottom, I thought to myself that I hoped I could remember the way back. (the other people had not gone up the stairs with me). I went back through the mazelike corridors and hallways, and came to a tube slide. I went down the slide and out into (I think) the sidewalk. that's all I can remember.

==== Dreams II. "Dick and Dave" by Viking ====

I was at a table in (I think) a restaurant but it was like I was waking up. I thought "wow" I have to tell Dick about this dream. As I sat up at the table I started to say "I have to tell you about this dream I had" but then when I looked across the table David was sitting there! I don't remember if I told him the dream but I remember that we left to meet Dick. When we met Dick, he acted as if he really did not want to see David.

(I met Dick and Dave in 8th grade, in 1968. Dick keeps up with Dave and me, but I haven't talked with Dave in years)

==== Dreams III. "Ski Farm Liability" by Viking ====

My wife Meg and I were in a large farm house looking out the window. It was winter and there was snow on the ground. The house was on a hill and overlooked a small valley (or ravine). On the other side of the valley was the large white barn. Some kids (i think it was son, Zeek) were sledding down the opposite side of the valley. Meg and I decided we wanted to sled too. We went out and along a fence at the head of the valley (I wish I could drawn a picture of the scene) and as we got to the other side we looked back toward the house and saw a man and woman on skis. We commented that it was too bad they came here because we couldn't allow them to ski due to our liability on the property. We finally got to the sled area and as we got there the ski people were at the head of the valley (it was a very small valley) I told the man he could not ski because we of liability and he said he understood. Meg and I looked down the sled hill and saw it was too steep (almost a straight drop) at this point and I remember feeling frightened. We moved down a ways and found an area not so steep and went down. I remember when we were at the steep part wondering how the kids had been able to go down.

==== Commentary on Betsy's 'i am dead dream' by Shadow ====

If this were my dream...

I am with my friends, my support. god (G/g?) says some of us have to die. I am not aware of the process behind this decision, but I do know that I am chosen. Others in our group will be with me. I will not be totally cut off from my support.

We are separated. Those of us who were chosen to die are in a grand place. It is white and pristine. Its architecture speaks of power and tradition. To one side there are huge windows. What do I see out those windows? To the other side I see that the floor drops down. There are pipes of many, ordered, colors protruding from this section. I am reminded of a train station. Where am I going? Some of my friends did not get chosen. Are they now stagnant in their immaturity and youth? Whereas myself and others that were chosen are grieving the death of youth and the bright flame of the

I-am-invincible mind set of adolescence.

god, or perhaps society, is saying it is time to go. No one moves. I take action first. The external expectations have been instilled in my deeply and now serve as motivators to act. The tubes are the routes. I am given the choice of which color (route) I want to take. I know, too, that once I enter the tube I will go to a new place and experience a sleepy feeling and then move back to where I was before. The place will be the same, but I will be different.

Red, green, or blue. I am choosing between the very basic colors. Heat and passion, life and strength, or light and flight. The actual choice is not remembered. The importance is that the choice was made and I avoided stagnation. I have passed to another level.

I have been chosen, travel down, and now I am in a very basic, gray place. It is made of stone (foundation). From this solid place I travel upward. My memory gets foggy when I am traveling either downward, or upward. Only my dream-conscious can see the lower levels and even then the routes are hidden from me.

I am back. Having just touched base with one of my friends (support) I am going home. I notice that there is more time so I go to another friend who is in the hospital. I have grown and now I feel able to be a supporter as well. After visiting with her I leave, but wait--I cannot go on. I pass out and die. What exactly occurred down below? The intellectual knowledge I was given, but that was not the event.

A nurse (my chosen adult-life guiding deity). She informs me and answers my questions as best as she can. This nurse/angel is an internal archetype that can only answer my questions from within myself. I am an angel, pure and unsoiled by adult experiences. I can cure the world of all its ills. I ask if people can hear me or see me. I am concerned with others will react/interact to and with me, and I to and with them.

My guide leaves after giving me a vague answer.

I am with another chosen one. Part of my dynamic, growing support. Shared uncertainty brings some comfort to me. My friend and I go to the nursery to look at the babies. Youth and innocence embodied before us. I think of the myth of birthmarks involving the touch of the divine to youth. One of the babies in the nursery stops breathing. We do not (cannot?) act directly, but instead we knock over a tray to get the attention of one of the nurses. The baby lives.

It occurs to me that I did not say any goodbye's. I decide to go home. Now I am in the den. My mom is the only other person in the house. I call out for her. She can hear me, but cannot see me. I am new, different, grown, transformed into an adult being. There is still a strong connection between us. I reach out and touch her. She cries and morns the death of my youth.

And just now I realize that I am not even here. This angelic incarnation of myself IS my youth. I have gone on to create an adult life for myself with goals and aspirations.

I tell my mom that I came to say goodbye to dad and Chris. I speak of my funeral. It is to be filled with white flowers and ivy (purity and energy). I, my youth, am to be laid out in the casual clothing that I loved so much, my care-free approach and mind set. My mom agrees to do this for me. I am back at the beginning, with the original group of friends (support, old and new). Those of us that were chosen and moved on are invisible to the stagnant ones. They can hear us but we have little or no substance as far as they are concerned. There is a rift here, but not so much that the bonds of friendship are broken. I just know that some of us are at a different place now. Some things change, but there are always constants. This is just one of many possibilities.






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