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Electric Dreams

Volume 3 Issue #6

26 July 1996

ISSN# 1089 4284


Electric Dreams - on the World Wide Web


-- Send Dreams and Comments on Dreams to:

Bob Krumhansl <>

-- Send Dream Questions and Concerns to

Victoria Quinton <>

--Send Dreaming News and Calendar Events to:

Peggy Coats <>

-- Send Requests for Dream Groups to:

Chris Hicks <>

--Send Articles and Subscription concerns to:

Richard Wilkerson: <>

--For back issues, editors addresses

and other access see



Download a GREAT COVER for Electric Dreams 3(6)! Jesse Reklaw




Welcome to ED 3-6 Richard Wilkerson

Electric Dreams Education Program - Chris Hicks

Electric Dreams Education Quesionnaire

See Dream Section for Bob's Notes

Poem: DREAMER DERRING-DO - By Taylor Esta Kingsley


Special Topic - Kids on Electric Dreams? A collection of

opinions, dreams, interviews and resources.

DREAM GROUP UPDATE - Christopher Hicks

Interview: with Roberta Ossana by Victoria Quinton

Software: The Dream Map : Store & Record Dreams on Mac

By Daniel Cummings

Article: Dream like contact with magic

(Part II of Please (don't) Fix it!! by Eulalia

Review: ASD XIII and Cyberspace By Richard Wilkerson

Interview: with Kephrea by Victoria Quinton

Article: Dangerous Dreams: The Risks of Online Dream Sharing

By Richard Wilkerson

Dream Work Tools - Review of products at ASD XIII

G L O B A L D R E A M I N G N E W S - Peggy Coats
















Index To Dreams & Dream Commentary Sequence for EDv3n6

(Following the Title is the author and the date of the

dream/commentary or submission - in the format of














Commentary on "Old Lady on a Motorcycle" (ED3:V3N5) by Island


Commentary on: "Animal Island" (ED3:V3N5) by Island



Commentary on: "The Roof God and Uncle Joe" (ED3:V3N5)

by Island (960625)

Commentary on: A Snake Hater's Dream (ED3:3_5)

by Island (960529)

Commentary on A Snake Hater s Dream by Fuzz (EDV3N5) by


Commentary on: "The Night of the Biting Zombies " (ED3:3_5)

by Island (960625)

Commentary on: "An Arrow out of Nowhere" (ED3:V3N5)

by Island (96.06.25)


Commentary on: The Gnome of Depressive Death (ED3:3N5)

by Island (96.06.25)



Commentary on Island s "The Avocado/Magnolia War

by Island (960625)

Commentary on Island s Shadowbox by Island (960625)





Vehicles: Giant Rabbits by Marietta suburb-

Dream: Thesis Topic: by JK (960627

by JR)

Commentary on Thesis Topic

by Wise Crone (960629)

Driving Car toward Pepperell on 119

Dream: Tim, the crackhead

by JesseL (960627)

Commentary on Jesse s Tim,

The crackhead by Wise Crone

Rollerskates through the Park

Dream: A Struggle by Penrod (951228)

Flying/Skateboarding through Paris


Dream: Bank Problem by RE (960627

by JR)

Driving like skiing through ice after


Dream: The Free Gift by GD (960627

by JR)

Large spacecraft trip to Jupiter

Dream: Voyage To Jupiter

by MarkL (960720)

On a Star Wars ship in Outer Space

Dream: Star Wars by JesseL (960627)

On a Spaceship

Dream: Aliens, The Good, The Bad,

and the Ugly by Island


Transported to the Moon

Dream Excerpt: "Feeling (Not Drawing

Down) the Moon" by Island (96.06.15)

Inside a Giant White Ball

Dream: The Global Experience

by Nutcracker (960608 -#366)

Walking: Hiking over hillsides by Santa Cruz

Dream: No Trespassing

by DR (960627 by JR)

In field at daytime noticing Alien Craft


Dream: Alien Taste Test

by BR (960627 by JR)



Ghost or Spirit of malevolent

intent/Fear & Escape -

Dream: Demon Attack

by Wren The Valiant (960715)

Commentary on Wren s Demon Attack

by Cliff

Eels and lizards & Shopping and driving-

Dream: The Free Gift

by GD (960627 from JR) (see Journeys)

War and Peace-

Dream: The World Had All Agreed

by LM (960627 by JR)

Alien beetles and gunmen-

Dream: Voyage To Jupiter by MarkL

(960720) (see Journeys)


Tears and loneliness-

Dream: The Crying Angel

by Nutcracker (960608)


In the Workplace, At the General Store-

Dream: Making out in the back room

by JesseL (960627)


Shared lucid dream/precognition ..

Dream: (and reality) by Jason (960





Editor's Notes


Hello all adult Electric Dreams subscribers! What? Yes, it's

our duty to tell you that if you are not an adult, you had

better ask your parents permission to read further. Or maybe

not. This is one of the many issue with children and dreams

that we are examining this month. And as usual with Electric

Dreams events, the examination is not so much an academic

exercise as a grappling with a issue that will change or

define the nature of our interaction.

Besides the comments and essays and interviews that

Victoria Quinton has coordinated for you, we also have

several Questionnaires & mini questionnaires. If you have

interests in the direction of Electric Dreams or have raised

you children in a dream aware environment, please fill these

out and send'm in.

Victoria has also offered us a multitude of interviews &

Mini-chats this month with dream personages, including

Roberta Ossana, Linton Hutchison, Linda Magallon, Kephrea and

Kelly Bulkeley.

This Year's Association for the Study of Dreams con xiii

was an amazing event in the history of dreams and cyberspace.

The expo is still available for viewing at providing you with a history

and index into cyberdreaming in the sciences, the arts and

dream sharing as well as the fabulous explosion of web sites.

Be sure to check out the scattering of related articles in

this issue. For instance, how would you like to beta text

dream journaling and content analysis software? Drop me a


What kinds of future projects have been generated by the

ASD conference? A couple are the Dream Fountian, a way to

weave dreams thoughtout the know universe and the Dream

History project a joint project proposal to build an online

collected story. We are also learning how to use the new

bulletin boards available online and seeking ASD volunteers

for next years conference in Asheville, North Carolina.

One major issue that came up was whether or not dreams are

too dangerous to share in Cyberspace. What's your opinon on

this? See my article Dangerous Dreams.

Despite the dangers, we are continuing with our Dream

Groups and forums for you to discuss freely your dreams and

ideas and opinions on dreams. See Chris article on the

progress of the Dream Groups.

We are also sensitive to the fact that dreams, like any

personal text, can be mis-used and thereby offer a variety of

educational programs and pointers to other seminars, classes

and programs online. If you are interested in the future

developments on ED and Education, see Chris Hicks plans and

join in building an informed community.

Eulalia has sent the 2nd half of her article on dreams and

magic. Note that the Spanish characters for pre-sentence

question marks are boxes in ASCII.

Another offshoot of the ASD conference was that Peggy

Coats was able to network with more dream concerned people

and provide you with a wonderful Global Dreaming News and

Events Calendar for the Fall of 1996. However, we still want

to hear about events in your regional areas. Read your local

papers and check out the bookstores for events in dreaming

and send them in to Peggy.

Also this month we have an offering from the

Cyber=Dream Pioneer, Dan Cummings - a program for macs that

will work with your dreams and images. Check it out - then

tell us what you think! And while on the topic of software,

Cypress has sent us a summary of their project that was on

demonstration at ASD xiii.

Don't forget that we now have WONDERFUL, BEAUTIFUL covers

that you can download and use as screen savers or print as

covers for Electric Dreams. Jesse Reklaw has also provided a

gallery where you can get backissue covers, and if you are

feeling particularly inspired, you can illustrate a backissue

yourself. We have dozens still without covers!

And be sure to check out Jesse R's Weekly Dream Comic on Slow


As a matter of fact, if you feel really creative, how about

putting up your own dream web page? Yes, we will hold this

page for you on the Electric Dreams Web site, contact

Matthew Parry

And finally, our dream editor, Bob Krumhansl has come upon

a whole new system for organizing the dreams sent in to us.

The organization is natural and self-apparent, but Bob also

gives the full story at the beginning of the Dream Section -

be sure to read the additional Editor's notes there and enjoy

the dreams, dreams, dreams.

Hey, how about we send in our FIRST DREAMS for next issue?

It really feels to me like we have moved into a new channel

and I think that a collection of the communities first dreams

would be, well, simply wonderful.

See you all soon in CyberDreamSpace

Richard Wilkerson




Hello to all Electric Dreams subscribers!

A lot of you know me already, but for those who don't I am

Christopher Hicks, Electric Dreams' Education Director. As

part of my role as Education Director I attempt to provide ED

subscribers some assistance in continuing their personal

exploration of the fascinating world of dreams and dreamwork.

Eventually there will be a structured program of suggested

readings, on and off line resources, online dream classes,

reviews of dream related web sites, dream groups, and other

dream related activities. This program will provide a

Dreamwork Map for all, from the curious wanderer to the

experienced dreamworker.

At this time the ED educational program exists in concept

only. Some of the mentioned components, such as dream groups

and lists of dream related web sites, have been around for

some time now. These components, however, are not integrated

as aspects of a comprehensive program yet. To explore what

we do have to offer check out our web site at---

Your help is needed in developing the details of this

program. In completing the following questionnaire and

returning it to me, you will help to identify what needs to

be included in the program. In addition, I will try to

provide individualized assistance (offering suggestions,

resources, notices of upcoming activities, etc.) until the

educational program is up

and running.

I thank you in advance for your help.

--Christopher Hicks



By Taylor Esta Kingsley

copyright 1996


Return to the dark sleep.


Dare to dream the dream.


Leap into other worlds

behind the veil

of your gently closed



Dance the sacred dance.


Remember your knowingness.


Claim your ancient power!


Return to the dark sleep.


Dare to dream the dream.




*For each question please indicate which venue (email,

newsgroups, and/or

World Wide Web) you would prefer. You may choose one, two,

or all of the


1. Are you interested in working with your own and/or

others' dreams?

(via email, newsgroups, and/or WWW)

2. Are you interested in joining a dream sharing group?

(via email,

newsgroups, and/or WWW)

3. Are you interested in learning more about dreams as they

appear in

history? (via email, newsgroups, and/or WWW)

4. Are you interested in a detailed look at how past

cultures dealt with

dreams and dreaming? (via email, newsgroups, and/or WWW)

5. Are you interested in a group reading & discussion of a

dream related

book? (via email, newsgroups and/or WWW)

6. Are you interested in learning more about psychological

theories related

to dreams and dreaming? (via email, newsgroups and/or WWW)

7. Are you interested in learning about various dream

working techniques?

(via email, newsgroups and/or WWW)

8. Are you interested in becoming involved in dream related


(via email, newsgroups and/or WWW)

9. Are you interested in learning about techniques to

improve your dream

recall abilities? (via email, newsgroups and/or WWW)

10. Are you interested in learning more about Lucid

dreaming? (via email,

newsgroups and/or WWW)

11. Are you interested in building your own dream related

web page? (via

email, newsgroups and/or WWW)

12. Would you like to help in some way with the development

and/or running

of some aspect of the education program?

**Note: I welcome all comments, suggestions, and

correspondence whether

covered in the questionnaire or not.





Victoria Quinton

share a dream; exchange a thought

School of Thinking:


Question Airing Forum no 3.

Hello everyone

I am sorry not to have been at the ASD conference, but from

accounts across cyberspace, it seems to have been busy and


This issue one of the focuses is Children and Dreaming. I

have a feeling this thread will take on a life of its own,

incorporating issues of censorship and allowing children

individuality in "responsible" surroundings.

I suspect children have much to teach, or remind us about

courtesy of their "dreams".

Since my daughter is 2 1/4 now, I am especially interested in

this topic.

The "Australian Corner" has hidden itself away for an

indefinite time.

Perhaps that may be because dreams and the imagination itself

transcend borders.

mermaid 8*)

==== Lucid Dream Discussions on IRC =====

Some others and I are starting a Lucid

Dreaming discussion channel on DALnet IRC, #Lucidity, we're

still deciding on the meeting times and I'll be posting them

in the alt.dreams.lucid once we've decided them, they look

like they'll either be 9:00pm EDT or 10:00 EDT. If your

interested I can e-mail you times once we've decided them.


DALnet home page is

============ Lee Holmes Lucid Dreaming Manual

This is a question to all of you who've looked through the

Lucid Dreamer's Manual which I distributed a while ago. Has

anybody had any positive experiences due to it? Has anybody

found a variation of any of the techniques which seem to be

particularly effective? I'd be interested in hearing your

personal lucid dreaming techniques and favorite pastimes as


>Viel Gluck and Happy Dreaming!



Special Dream Airing Forum:

Children, Dreams, and Cyberspace ???


Could Electric Dreams have a children's section or are we and

adult venue? This is the question that we are exploring and

we invite your response.

We have especially been asking those of you who have

raised your kids in dream conscious environments, how you

handle nightmares and other kinds of dream sharing, at what

age it is appropriate to share what kinds of material.


Re: children and dreams. From Linda Lane Magallon to

Victoria Quinton

Although I did dreamwork with my own children (Vic and

Teresa), it wasn't until 1984-5 when they were 11-12 and 7-8

years old, respectively. Thus, they already had fully

developed language skills.

At first, the dreams they were likely to share were of the

nightmare variety. Nightmares were the ones that propelled

them into their parents' bed in the middle of the night...or

early morning. They were more than willing to talk out that

sort of experience. I took the opportunity to try out

whatever flavor of dreamwork I was learning at the time. This

way we domesticated the aliens and tamed the monsters.

Several dreamwork techniques can be effectively applied to

nightmare resolution. I like the work of my colleagues: Bob

Trowbridge ( and Fred Olsen


As I shared my non-titanic dreams, Vic and Teresa eventually

got the idea to talk about dreams that were not troubling.

That's how I learned that we, individually, could have

psychic dreams and, as a family, could experience mutual


Except to resolve the nightmares, no one else in my family

has been interested in doing dream interpretation. Rather,

they share dreams as stories...interesting vignettes from the

night time theater of the mind. Teresa now does this on

almost a daily basis. It's part of her telephone

conversations with her friends to report the dream of the


So when you consider children and dreams, please don't stop

at nightmares! That's just an entry point. There's so much

more. My children have experienced flying, lucid, OBEs,

funny, punny dreams. They weren't limited by mundane

expectations of what a dream shoulda oughta be...or by how

"practical" it should be in terms of serving the needs of

waking life.

Sweet dreams,



A resource: books on Dreams for kids from the Novato Center

for Dreams:


The Novato Center For Dreams Online Site is:


Interview with Kelly Bulkeley

by Victoria Quinton

VQ: At what age do you consider a child ready to talk about


KB: I think children are ready, and eager, to talk about

dreams at a very early age, usually between three and four

years old. The older they get, of course, the more capable

children become of discussing the more detailed, nuanced

dimensions of their dream experiences. But if grown-ups can

make sure to modulate their own comments to match the child's

level of interest and verbal ability, they can have wonderful

conversations about dreams with quite young children.

VQ: Does a child need a certain level of language in order

to discuss dreams?

KB: More important than a child's level of language is the

grown-up's ability to be an empathetic listener. As with any

form of dreamwork, the key is always to stay close to the

dreamer's own experience. With children, this means avoiding

big words and complex sentences, and showing that the

grown-up really understands the feelings the children are

expressing through their dreams.

VQ: What sort of questions could one ask a child about


KB: Some of the questions I've found most productive of

interesting conversations are a) basic questions about the

particular details of the given dream--what did the animal

look like, who were the people, what kind of place was it,

etc.; b) questions about how the dream's images relate to any

other stories, videos, etc. the child is familiar with; c)

questions about different possible endings for the dream; and

d) more generally, questions about where the child thinks

dreams come from. I also think it's very fun and interesting

for grown-ups to share their *own* dreams with children.

Besides showing the children that the grown-ups trust them

enough to share their own dreams, this practice can also give

the grown-ups some surprisingly sharp insights into their


VQ: What resources do you know of to deal with nightmares or

night terrors?

KB: Night terrors are not, strictly speaking, dreams at all;

they are considered disorders of arousal. Most children have

night terrors every once in a while, so there's nothing

parents need do other than comfort the child when the night

terrors occur. (Although if the terrors persist, a doctor

should be consulted.) Regarding nightmares, Ann Sayre

Wiseman's book "Nightmare Help" can be of some use, as can

children's books like "There's a Nightmare in My Closet" by

Mercer Mayer and "Where the Wild Things Are" by Maurice

Sendak. I've found that reading children story books about

dreams can be one of the best ways to help them reflect on

and talk about their own dream experiences. Alan Siegel and

I are currently working on a book, tentatively titled "The

Dream Catcher's Workbook," which we hope will provide parents

and children with the most up-to-date information on how to

understand children's dreams and nightmares.

VQ: Does a child need to be a certain age/ developmental

level to differentiate nightmares from "dreams"?

KB: . Pretty early on, children make their own

distinctions, their own "typologies" of dreams--they'll

discriminate their good dreams from their bad dreams, their

funny dreams, and their weird dreams. In discussing dreams

with children it's very important to let them express *their*

experiences first, before imposing adult theoretical grids

onto their dreams.

Well, there you go! I hope that's the sort of thing you

were looking for. Please let me know if there's anything else

I can do to help you with this. Take care,


Kelly Bulkeley received his Ph.D from the University of

Chicago Divinity school and his M.T.S. from Harvard Divinity

School. He is the author of _the Wilderness of Dreams:

Exploring the Religious meanings of Dreams in Modern Western

Culture, Spiritual Dreaming, a Cross-cultural and Historical

Journey and numerous other articles in _Dreaming _ and other

Journals. His activity in ASD and other dream venues is

extensive, and he is currently teaching at the Graduate

Theological Union in Berkeley, and is the Chair of the ASD

board of Directors.


No to children's section on ED

For the record, I can't see the ezine catering to children

and keeping the openness and frankness that adolescent/adult

dreams demonstrate and deserve. This goes mainly for the

dream content and the dream commentary. Tailoring both to

children would be an impossible task to accomplish while

still preserving the original spirit. As suggested by

Nutcracker, perhaps someone else could take on a project for

a "Children's Edition - Ezine" or perhaps it could be a

separate ED project. There are several books directed

specifically at children and their dreams written at a childs


However, dealing with childrens dreams from an adult

perspective, from a parents perspective, would be very

helpful to all parents of younger children and the theme

should be followed and very much a part of ED. A special

focus issue at least once a year, and a regular

column/section if we find a spokesperson (Victoria?) would be

very appropriate.

As far as the Web Page goes, I think that ultimately we

should identify our Web Site "for adults only" for purposes

of those browsers which filter out sites from the younger set

- just to be on the safe side from the witch-hunters of the

Internet. Jeepers, there are some adults that think our

project is a ticking bomb for vulnerable adults. Perhaps at

some future date a "Kid's Corner" could be developed and

maintained open to anyone. This solution allows the site to

be flagged for those wishing to limit their children viewing,

and would place us on the record as identifying that some

topics discussed are controversial. Many themes (sexuality,

violence, and belief systems) touched by dreams, commentary,

and even some articles could be misinterpreted by narrow

minded adults very easily. I can imagine some off-balance

person stating "I read it in Electric Dreams or the Electric

Dreams Web Page and I thought I'd bring it to reality." Very

wishful thinking, but the danger is potentially there.

Bob K.


The Dangers of A Children's section on ED

Since I already feel that Electric Dreams is dangerous and I

don't like what it does with dreams for adults, I can only

double this for children. We have known for a long time in

the dream field that it is wrong and dangerous to tell other

people what their dreams mean. This practice undermines the

person's ability and inner authority in making decisions for

themselves. Even this so called modified "Ullman" technique

you all use on Electric Dreams does not completely protect

the dreamer from other people's manipulation and wild

projections. Please, not only would I ask you to not

interpret children's dreams nor encourage them to do so in

any way, but I would like to see you stop this practice with

adults as well.

Dream Friend


Hi all,

Here's my .02 worth:

I say keep it adult with maybe articles pertaining to

kids/dreams several times a year (if warranted).

If someone else out there wants to start a kids ezine, let

them do it.



About Children's Dreams:

1. I would really like to read some *actual* children's

dreams as recorded by their parents. If anyone with

children could take the time to do this, I think it would

be vary interesting. (Most of the "children's dreams" i

read are quick paraphrasings. Are children's dreams really

not much more than that?)

2. At ASD 13 I saw a presentation by Denyse Beaudet, Ph. D.

called "The Dream Monster Swallowed Me All Up: a dream

pattern across childhood and adulthood." I found this paper

very informative. Perhaps someone could interview Dr.

Beaudet? Or maybe someone could write a summary of her

paper (alas, I didn't take very good notes, otherwise I'd

volunteer). I have the abstract though, if anyone is




A Survey of a Dream aware family in San Jose

ED Web could have a Children's section providing a rating

like pg-13 is a good idea. We suggest you send a mesage to

parents that we are sensitive to the implications of our

material, such as nightmare inducing dreams or sexually

explicit or violence. Also the message to dreamer to self

regulate their submissions to alert them that this is a

general public board and not just for adults.

The idea of having different age group pages doesn't appeal

to us - just - kids and not for kids.

San Jose, CA 1996



I have a son, Zach. He is eleven months old now. I

cannot help but wonder if he dreams. I have my suspicions

that he does. I have only a father's watchful observances to

base this on--the small movements of his eyes while asleep;

the swinging of his little arms, as if to ward off some

nap-time annoyance. To be honest, my suspicions are rooted

more in a father's intuition than on anything else.

Whether he does dream or not, I know that he *will*

dream! And I anxiously ,await the day when he and I, son and

father, can sit and share the wondrous images of the previous

night's dreams. I recall some of my own childhood dreams,

filled with super heros and cartoon characters. I can also

recall some frightening images as well, from those childhood

dreams. Again, I look forward to the day when I can

sit/stand/kneel/lie with Zach and help him to work through

any frightening Dreamtime experiences!

Of course, the dreams of a child are precious, as are

those of all of us. But with children, it seems to me, the

important difference comes in the approach, or technique

used. Should a parent sit down with their child and use a

technique like the modified Ullman technique used in the

Dream Wheel

dream groups, where the dreamer is asked clarification

questions before the dream is taken as if it were the

commentors'? I don't think so. I tend to agree with

Linton Hutchinson in this area (I admit that I know only a

little of his approach in this area--Thank you Victoria for

bringing this much to my attention). Children like to play

and be active. It only follows that they would enjoy acting

out there dreams and working with them in an active way. A

small child is probably not going to enjoy, nor benefit from

an in-depth discussion of the symbolic appearance of the

Trickster Archetype in there dream. But, they might have fun

playing a game with Mom or Dad, where they get to *be* the


I don't see how we can ignore our children's dreams!

Nor do I think we should try to do so. Some might warn of

the dangers of working with adult dreams in a non-therapeutic

setting. These same persons might feel even more strongly

against working with children's dreams. I do not agree. We

see books for children that help them to learn about their

faces, hands, feet, and the world around them. Although they

can be embarrassing, we do not restrict the discussion of

anatomy and sexuality to a therapeutic setting. If a little

boy or girl starts asking Mom and Dad questions at bath time

they are answered, albeit carefully. So, why should dreams

be any different?

I plan to be very open, supportive and encouraging of

Zach when he begins to speak and share dream images, and

later full dreams! I won't try to use his dreams as

diagnostic analogies to his life. But, I will share his joy

and wonder at a mysterious and surreal realm that comes to

life each night.

I will offer support and assistance to whatever degree he is

interested, just as I would with any other area of his life.

My son has a face (complete with a nose, eyes and mouth). My

son has two arms and two legs.

Just as I will play silly little games to teach him to

identify these and learn what they can do, so too will I play

games with him to help him learn about Dreamtime!!!

--Christopher Hicks


I think Electric Dreams should have a kids corner. When I

was two years old I dreamt I was flying. The dream was so

real that I still remember it vividly.

In fact that dream is my oldest memory .

My dream:

The early morning son has begun to shine in my room. My

adventure into dream land is just about done. I'm standing

in my crib watching myself fly around my room. I didn't want

to land, but I knew that I had to. When I woke I was

standing in my crib in the same position.

My four year old son lost his father this past winter, and he

had a dream

about him.

Blake's dream:

Mommy, I dreamt I saw Daddy he was wearing a long black cape

and a mask. He

wanted to hug me, and I was scared. When he hugged me he

turned to stone

I would also like to share a poem I wrote about dreams.


Dream, dream, tell me so the secrets of my very soul.

Oh dream of magic sleep fill my mind with the answers I seek.

For my heart needs to know the secrets of my very soul.

Dream, dream, of innard light shead your tourch of insight

into my wakeing


Oh set me free my sweet, sweet, dream of mine...

Do you know anything about Carl Jung? He has a lot of ideas

about dreaming and the human pyche. Let me know if you do,

because if you do not I could fill you in. I think dreaming

is an important step in understanding the unconscious mind!

Jennifer Wood


Jennifer - cool idea, I think we should have a focus next

issue on "First Dreams"!



Michael Schredl

Dear Victoria Quinton,

In Electric Dreams Vol. 3 No. 5 you write about children and

nightmares. I recently finished a study which might be

interesting. I enclosed a summary of an article I had

submitted to DREAMING (Journal of ASD). Although I had no

personal or practical experiences with children having

nightmares the scientific viewpoint may be valuable.

Abstract of "Anxiety dreams in school-aged children"

Authors: Michael Schredl, Ruth Pallmer and Alyaa Montasser

Institurion: Central Institute of Mental Health, Mannheim,


Postal address:

Dipl. Psych. M. Schredl, sleep laboratory, Zentralinstitut

fr Seelische

Gesundheit, Postfach 12 21 20, 68072 Mannheim, Germany

The article shortly reviews the literature on nightmare

frequency, nightmare content and possible causes of

childrenÆs nightmares. The empirical study was designed to

test three hypotheses: firstly, anxiety dream frequency as

related to trait anxiety; secondly, the most common theme of

nightmares being äBeing Chasedô. Thirdly, assuming continuity

between dreaming and waking life, it has been hypothesized

that specific dream themes are related to anxiety experienced

in waking-state, e. g. examination dreams as a result of

examination anxiety or realistic threats in dreams a product

of general anxiety. A sample of 624 children (10 - 16 yrs.)

was investigated by means of two questionnaires (a

questionnaire about bad dreams and an anxiety inventory)

whereby all hypotheses were confirmed by the results.

Longitudinal studies would serve as potential valuable tool

to clarify the relationship between waking life and

anxiety-laden dream content. In addition, it seems to be

useful to inform parents, child caretakers, teachers and

children about the simple methods in dealing with nightmares.


Questions to Linton Hutchison from Victoria Quinton

1/ At what age do you consider a child ready to talk about


Since Beck and I share dreams every morning, it made sense to

include Sterling in the process. For a long time Sterling

being younger, didn't really know what dreams were but though

Beck and I were just telling stories to each other. She

wanted to join in so she made up her dreams which were just

bits and pieces of stories or things that had happen to her

that she remembered.

What was important was establishing the pattern and not

necessary her reporting of her dreams. I would start

including your children in this dream process as soon as

possible. I think that Sterling was around 5 or 6 before she

first realized what dreams were.

Another inclusion we used was in conjunction with our dream

group work with other people in the community. The girls

would come to dream group and be the first ones to share a

dream with all the usual fuss and positive regard that

performing in front of a group can bring to a small child.

Then off to bed after the group members would ask a few

questions about their dreams.

2/ Does a child need a certain level of language in

order to discuss dreams?

Children seem to understand the feeling tone of the dream

rather than the symbolic meaning contained in the pictorial

icon represented by the dream. It seemed that a lot of early

dreams contained a one-to-one correspondence between waking

and dreaming realities. Interactions that were worked out in

the dream seemed to be in relationship to animals quite a bit

as well. Using a more playtherapy approach where action and

movement is substituted for words seems to be a more

effective method to working with childrens dreams. Words for

children seem to get in the way when they can act out the

dream, or paint the dream or use figures to get to the

feeling tone of the dream experience.

3/ What sort of questions could one ask a child about


Again I think that I would use more play than questions in a

non-directive approach to having children work (play) with

the dream images they remember. It seems that children would

rather "act" than reflect on an experience that happen during

the night. When eating seems to be a waste of time for most

children, recalling and answering questions about a dream is

going to be a close second to trying to get them in bed or

take a nap. If you incorporate the dream experience into a

game, a painting, a drama or other activity that contains a

little more life than asking questions, the experience will

be rewarding for the child and encourage them to continue to

report dreams in the future.

Asking questions about the creation that the child is

involved in can be beneficial to the child but only as a

secondary function for working with the dream. How do you

feel when you see yourself in your picture? If you could draw

this dream again, what might you create to make you feel


Using more open ended questions How (process) what (persons)

when (time)may allow for a deeper exploration as long as it

doesn't interfere with the process that already is in place.

You might want to stay away from WHY questions - most WHY

questions are asked by parents when the child has done

something wrong and will normally evoke a shutting down of

communication rather than facilitating it.

4/ What resources do you know of to deal with

nightmares or night terrors?

Two books that are great for working with children's dream

Deputizing Children's Dreams by Katherine West and Nightmare

Help by Anne Sayre Wiseman who was at the ASD conference.

Beck and I have been putting material together on Children's

Dreams and should have something out next year.

5/ Does a child need to be a certain age/

developmental level to differentiate nightmares from


The categories that our children have regarding dreams are no

dreams, good dream, and bad dreams. We try to give them the

idea that if they don't remember their dream in the morning

chances are if they look for it, they will find it somewhere

during the day. And sure enough, more times than not, an

event or situation will present itself during the day that

triggers something about their dream. The good dreams are

usually dreams that have a positive feeling associated with

it; they have won a race, helped someone, sang a song etc....

The bad dreams have some type of challenge that is unresolved

that is some buried trauma or unfinished business associated

with it. We usually reenter these dreams and rescript those

dreams using helpers if the dreams too scary or creating ways


self-protection i.e., being invisible, being able to create

millions of armies, becoming bionic etc.... After Sterling

has usually killed, stomped, hit or defeated this enemy, we

work on rescripting, including some type of dialogue or

finding out just what this enemy wanted or perhaps had to

give. When the child starts a dialogue and communicates with

the enemy, a deeper recognition of what's really going on



Linton Hutchinson, Ph.D.

Webster University

Altamonte Springs, Fl


Dream: NO SUN

In an expansive suburban back yard, Theo (my 3 year old son)

and I walk into a doghouse and sit down. It is really very

large, more like a shed, and empty except for a bench. I sit

on the bench, in the corner, and Theo crouches down on the

dirt ground between my feet and legs. Facing the only

doorway, I notice the contrast of the dark, empty, colorless

interior that frames the brightness and many colors of green

that are across the yards. I know I am looking across many

yards. As I am looking out I hear/feel a sound, a whirling,

pulsing sound, like a boomerang, coming up from behind the

doghouse. I have no idea what it is and as it approaches

overhead I freeze in fear. I am in the corner, my arms are

outstretched to the side, my legs are somewhat open, my son's

head is down--he is pre-occupied with something on the

ground. I feel vulnerable in this open position and know that

I must lean forward and cover and protect Theo with my body

but I am terrified and cannot move. Suddenly all light turns

to darkness. We are sitting there in complete blackness and I

know that there is no longer a sun, there is no reflective

light, no possibility of light. I realize that this is what

is meant by "In the beginning there was a darkness that

covered the world."

Commentary by BobK:

If this were my dream, I would feel distanced from my

neighborhood and environment. I am close to my 3 year old son

in a nurturing and protective way, but we are isolated from

the rest of the world. We are in a "doghouse" together (A

bare-bones environment? Is it for misbehaving or did we enter

in the spirit of exploration?). While there, our isolation

becomes complete as darkness encompasses us completely. It's

just him and me, in our own world, on our own. I sense the

end of sunlight, the end of an era - it's terrifying and sad.

How will I adapt to the new darkness? Perhaps someone can

shed some light on this situation! How about YOU? Help!!



There seems to be some trends appearing in all the above


-- Parents would like to have more information about dealing

with dreams and kids.

-- Whatever we do with the Web site, the E-zine should remain

for adults. Just who adults/children are is unclear. If

Linton & Linda M. are correct, the verbal/written textual

nature of the E-zine is not of particular interest to kids


-- Having a place to post children's dreams for adults to

read may be a possibility.

-- Split on the Web, though most don't want to censor the web

site - if anything it would be a special children's corner.



Lost comments and Rating systems

If your comments on this topic were not published, it was an

error on the part of the editor, not a judgement on your

comments. Please resend if they did not show up.

One set of comments I left out were the exchange of ideas

from the last Electric Dreams Staff meeting, where the idea

first came up around the new Web Rating systems that are now

appearing, SafeSurf being the main model.

Also, see

If you get a chance, for the next issue please stop by one or

more of these site and tell us how you would rate:

1. The overall Electric Dreams Homepage on the Web.

2. The Electric Dreams Ezine, this issue.

3. The last DreamWheel or dream group you were in.

Send those ratings to Richard Wilkerson at




This is the first of what will now be a regularly

appearing column in each issue of Electric Dreams. Its

purpose is to update and inform everyone of how the Dream

Wheels are going. This is especially important in this time

of rapid growth and continued development of the Dream Wheel



For those who are not familiar with the Dream Wheel dream

sharing groups here is a short description of what they are

and how they work.

Dreams are submitted. A dream(s) is chosen by random process

and distributed to the entire group. Group members ask

*clarification*questions of the dreamer, who then has an

opportunity to respond. Once all the questions and answers

have been sent group members comment on the dream using a

modified version of the Ullman "If this were my dream..."

technique. The process and techniques used support and

encourage a non-threatening environment that often leads

insights and positive growth for both the dreamers and the



The current email Dream Wheel (Dream Wheel 10) is just

wrapping up as this issue of Electric Dreams is being

distributed. This Dream Wheel has four dreams running. The

number of dreams in a group varies, but is usually between

two and five; occasionally there are more or less than this

average. At just about the midway point of this Dream Wheel

I had to take a few days away from my computer so I turned

the movement of the group over to the group members. Usually

the moderator, myself in this case, sends messages to the

group when it is time to move from one phase to another. The

Dream Wheel kept rolling while its moderator was away! In

fact, throughout the group I have been impressed with the

caring and supportive attitudes and actions of the group

members. Several times a member sent email to the group with

a question about the process, or a misplaced email containing

important questions or answers. Always, within a day that

same person would send out a "thank you" to all the group

members who responded! And, I am pleased to say, that the

group is just as caring and supportive in working with the

dreams. There is a palpable sense of this group's

cohesiveness. Dream Wheel 10 is not just a bunch of people

emailing each other about dreams. It is a group of people

that share an interest in dreams and a belief that working

with dreams can bring about positive growth and a better

understanding of one's self. I have sensed this sort of

thing in past groups and it seems to be growing stronger with

each new Dream Wheel!


The Dream Wheels on the World Wide Web are a very new thing.

In fact, the July Dream Wheel is only the third group run in

this venue. Currently we are only running Dream Wheels at

Beck and Linton Hutchinson's Dream Link Web site (many thanks

to the Hutchinson's for allowing us to use their site). The

July Dream Link Dream Wheel is nearing the point where it

will enter the Comment Phase. Like the email Dream Wheel

groups, this group uses the modified Ullman "If this were my

dream..." technique. The process of how the dreams,

questions, answers, and commentaries are communicated to the

group is different. The dreamers and participants in these

new WWW Dream Wheels have been very understanding as changes

have been made in the instructions. The same

non-threatening, supportive environment has carried over onto

the Web with us. The dreamer, who provided the dream for the

current Dream Wheel has commented on how much insight can be

gained just from answering the questions of the other

participants--not to mention reading the commentaries!

Check out the July Dream Wheel on Dream Link at:

click on Dream Wheel from the main page for instructions on

how to find the group!


There are many exciting things coming in the future of the

Dream Wheel groups! In addition to the email and WWW groups,

there will be other new venues, such as newsgroups and

bulletin boards, and even live chat groups coming soon!!! We

are also planning to start some smaller, un-moderated groups

very soon.


If you want to join, or want more information on any of the

Dream Wheels simply email me, Chris Hicks, at:

Here's an example of how easy it is:

"Hi Chris I would like more info on the email Dream Wheels!"

or WWW Dream Wheels, or un-moderated Dream Wheels.

This is an exciting time of growth and development for the

Dream Wheel groups. Everyone is welcome in our groups

whether you choose to be an active member or "lurk" for a

while to see how the group works. Come and join us!!!

--Christopher Hicks

Education Director


Oh yes, I almost forgot--Dreams! We always need dreams to

use for our groups. This is especially true now as both the

email and the Web groups are nearing completion. If you have

a dream(s) that you would like to submit send them to me at:

Please include a short title for each dream and let me know

what pen name you would like to use.



Interview with Roberta Ossana

by Victoria Quinton


VQ: Who is the intended audience for Dream Network?

RO: When I first took responsibility for the publication,

it was my impression that many of readers were lay and

professional dreamworkers and/or people already committed

to valuing their dreams. Given there had been a fair

amount of time for networking/information sharing among the

'core' readers, we felt -- since we all dream every night

-- that it was time to prepare the publication to meet the

general public. We have since that time published a

combination of scholarly, well referenced articles as well

as experiential/heart sharing articles written by dreamers

like you and I. Response we have received, continually,

since attempting to span that distance has been very

enthusiastic: something for all dreamers!

We are selling quite well at the bookstores we reach through

our distributors, which indicates a receptive lay

readership; many of the 'core' readers are still

contributing/with us and there is always excitement in the

letters of new readers who, through word of mouth or 'on the

newsstand' have found us. One of our goals is to raise

individual and cultural appreciation for the value of dreams

and -- since we do all dream

-- it would seem a simple and direct answer to your question

is a 'general audience.'

VQ: Was there a dream you had that inspired you to

join Dream Network?

RO: Yes. It was a precognitive dream that had me in the

summer of 1975. It was like a full length extravaganza...

full color, light and sound.

An incredible experience! I had no idea what had just

happened... but intuitively knew that it was significant,

important. It was the first dream I ever recorded... and I

did so with most dreams that followed. This enhanced my

dreaming life considerably! I began asking questions,

searching out whatever I could get my hands on related to

dreams. Several years after that summer of '75 dream, the

mayor of our town, Port Townsend, WA., put a notice in the

local paper asking if there was anyone out there who would

be interested in coordinating an event for the 35th

anniversary of the signing of the United Nations Charter.

There were other reasons, which I won't go into

here, which compelled me to call together a group of

colleagues for the purpose of brainstorming ideas about

what we might do for this occasion in our village. The

ideas that were springing forth from everyone's creative

minds brought to mind vivid images from the dream. I

mentioned this to the

group and in less than a split second, on man said, "Well,

we've got to do it then!" So, we each took a piece of the

work away from that meeting and pulled together a full day

and into the evening event. I can only say that the event

itself, the experience, was walking the intersection where

dream reality meets with everyday experience. It was like

walking through the dream, step by step. Virtually nothing

was missing. There was a moment of silence which everyone

gathered was asked to observe to contemplate/pray for world

peace. In that moment of silence, my destiny was sealed. I

knew this is the path I would pursue.

VQ: What would be your initial advice to those

starting out with their own "dream work."

RO: In a way, I was forced to adopt the term, dream work...

as it was well established by the time I became

publisher/editor of the Dream Network Journal. I would

rather answer the question

"...... initial advice to those starting to awaken to the

value and importance of their dreams." Also, I would prefer

to suggest, rather than advise.

May I? I would suggest it takes time. It is a subtle art.

Not a quick-fix remedy for whatever ails or troubles one. I

would encourage that individual to record and contemplate on

their remembered dreams. To begin sharing their dreams

with someone they trust.... whether there is an attempt to

understand the meaning of the dream or not. If nothing more

than for enjoying the sheer genius and beauty of the

imagery and story. Certainly, setting aside time especially

for dreamsharing, such as

in a dream group, is beneficial and would be encouraged. I

would suggest that they begin to give dreams a respected

place in their life. Read good books on the subject. Begin

familiarizing themselves with the subtleties of symbol and


Realize that any given dream may yield its purpose and/or

meaning in layers, over time. Sometimes it takes years before

the full depth of meaning surfaces. I would say it becomes a

way of life, the symbolic life dancing and interfacing with

synchronicities... and that from this dance new paths are

revealed, new ways of viewing our lives and paths. I would

caution them to be prepared for a sometimes perilous,

painful and often joyous journey. Our culture is not rooted

in truth. Our dreams are. These are some of the things

I've learned that I would want to share.

Now, of course, if this person were to have approached me

in line at the post office or grocery store, which often

happens,. I would say perhaps only one of these things.... or

suggest the Dream Network and/o r a good book!

VQ: Have you learned more about "dreams" from books or

word of mouth?

RO: I've learned more about dreams from dreams.... than I

have from books or word or mouth.

Website: http:\\

Voice Mail (801) 461-9003/Subscriptions 800-861-3732

PO Box 1026

Moab, UT 84532

"Encouraging individual & cultural appreciation for

the value of dreams and mythology."


The Dream Map

Store & Record Dreams on Mac

Daniel Cummings



The Dream Map is a database to help you record and store your

dreams. Dreams can be typed into the database along with the

date and the title of the dream. However, there is a big

difference between the Dream Map and an ordinary text only

database. The Dream Map uses a hybrid text and graphical data

entry method to assist the dreamer in understanding the

dream. The Dream Map consists of five "filters" or "layers"

through which you can categorize, expand and explore the

dream content. These layers put dream content analysis

methods into a graphical, interactive form. The dreamer

explores the Spaces in the dream, the Characters in the

dream, the

Artifacts in the dream, the Moods in the dream, and the

Insights or messages from the dream. The combination of

graphical layers and icon placements allows you to record and

see interesting aspects of one dream or emerging patterns in

many dreams.

This version of the program is a single user version. The

next version will be networked, allowing many dreamers to see

their dreams arranged on the map alongside others on the net.

The present system allows for 28 dreams to be recorded at a


Dream Map does not *interpret* dreams, it serves as a helpful

tool to *explore* dreams.

The application works with a Power Macintosh or a 68k

Macintosh and needs about 4

Megs of free ram to run.

Details and a demo version for downloading can be found at

the dreamMap webpage.

Here you will also find a link to other computed dream

projects happening at the dreamMosaic.


Daniel Cummings


Unlocking the Secrets of Your Dreams

by Jayne Gackenbach




Unlocking the Secrets of Your Dreams is a noncredit

introductory course that is delivered on the World Wide Web.

The course consists of five lessons which teach you to

interpret and work with your own dreams, both alone and in an

electronic group session. Each lesson is accompanied by an

assignment where you will put what you have learned into

practice, and answer a questionnaire about your dream

experiences. You will receive feedback on the completed

assignment the following week. Throughout the course you will

have access to a student bulletin board where you can share

your ideas and impressions about dreams with others enrolled

in the class as well as an active dialogue with the

author/instructor, Jayne Gackenbach.

Here are some comments from students who have taken the

course: I think this must be an Herculean effort on your

part, and it is appreciated. I am finding it interesting and

challenging. As with the rest of your feedback, I find it

FASCINATING and am already imagining ways to adjust my


work from it's influence. Everthing looks great! Very nice

graphics - touches that part of dreaming that is marvelous

and wonderful. I find your comments and students' feedback

help me to understand better. Once a path of communication is

established, who knows where it can lead and that's

exciting, if a little scary...


Lesson 1 - Introduction to Dreaming

The first lesson presents some basic information about the

importance of dreams, the physiology of sleep and dreaming,

and techniques for enhancing the recall of dreams.

Lesson 2 - What Do Most People Dream About?

Have you ever wondered if other people dream about the same

things as you? This lesson will look at the content of

typical dreams.

Lesson 3 - Dream Work Tools and Techniques

Lesson 3 discusses the language of dreams, and explores

techniques for examining and understanding their meaning.

Lesson 4 - Dream Connectedness

Are dreams just a personal experience or do they have a

broader context? This lesson explores the way our dreams

connect to the world around us, and the effect that culture

has on our attitudes toward them.

[Image]Lesson 5 - Selected Topics

This lesson covers a variety of topics related to dreaming

including nightmares, children's dreams, psychic dreams, and

the effects of health on dreams.

About the Course Author/Instructor

Jayne Gackenbach is highly respected in the field of dream

research. She holds a Ph.D. in general experimental

psychology from Virginia Commonwealth University and is a

past-president of the Association for the Study of Dreams.

She currently manages ASD's web site

( She has been the keynote

speaker at many conferences, lectured at the Smithsonian

Institute, and was invited to present her work on lucid

dreams to the Dalai Lama in India.

She is the editor/author of five books, including "Conscious

Mind, Sleeping Brain: Perspectives on Lucid Dreaming" with

Stephen LaBerge, and more than seventy articles which have

been appeared in both scholarly journals such as "The Journal

of Mind and Behavior" and popular national magazines

including "Psychology Today" and "OMNI". In addition, she has

appeared on Donahue, Shirley, Man Alive, and other television

programs in the U.S. and Canada.

Most recently she has been working with a Cree dream shaman

to study the dreaming practices and attitudes of Native

people. Dr. Gackenbach teaches at Grant MacEwan Community


Dr. Gackenbach draws on her work on higher states of

consciousness/lucid dreaming and her understanding of Central

Alberta Cree dream practices to illustrate many of the

concepts in the course.

Lesson one will be available on-line Mid-

August. You will have

one week to complete each lesson and submit the assignment

before you are given access to the next lesson and

assignment. Enrollment is limited so please register soon.

The course runs for six weeks (one lesson/assignment takes

two weeks) beginning the middle of August, 1996. This $129

value is being offered at a low introductory price of $39

(US currency) $49 (Canadian currency) . JB.

To Register:

Internet Dream Course:


Dream like contact with magic

by Eulalia


Part I : Please Fix It is in ED(3)5

A Spanish version of this article is available


From Barcelona... Part II.


Entering into the transpersonal stage means to extend our

conscience border beyond the skin. Everybody has the

experience of some oneiric premonition in a way. Who didnÆt

know a ôdeja vuö situation? Many people can tell stories

about these subjects. Space and time barriers are lighter in

dreams. Once I dreamt I was watching on TV a new about an

earthquake in the Aegean Sea. Two days after I forgot the

dream already. I read in a newspaper that actually the

earthquake in the Aegean Sea happened but two hours later

than my dream. There are magic characters in dreams also. I

have been visited for three flying ladies for many years. Of

course, you can think I am crazy (may be), but I know them

and they use to teach me, counsel me, enjoy with me and sing

all together. The only thing is that they can be people or

birds but it doesnÆt matter to me such a insignificant

detail. Are they fruit of my subconscious? Are they angels?

Are they outcome of my neural chemistry?... They are. It is

enough for me

Dream like spiritual initiation

The great question always has been: Who I am? This is the

ancient meaning of the Zen word Koan.

All the mystic schools taught and teach about the true I. To

discover ourselves like spring and creators of oneiric

universe (specially in lucid dreams) could be the first step

towards a superior comprehension of reality. In Zen there

are koans about enlightened dreams and it is recommended to

continue with attention in the practice inside the sleep.

Stephen Laberge explains the way Tibetan Buddhism and Sufism

work with dreams. Minoic Civilization in the Mediterranean

Sea, 4000 years ago, had a very interesting ceremony named

ôIncubation of dreamsö based in a beautiful legend of the

Egyptian Goddess Isis. Everywhere, everytime man and woman

related dreams with death and spirituality.

Sometimes in my dreams the Ineffable takes shape and appears

like the Sea.

I want to finish this little article with a sentence of

Al-Halla, the great poet and mistic sufi: "Go to tell my

friends that I shipped towards the Great Sea and my boat is

breaking upö



ASD XIII and Cyberspace

By Richard Wilkerson


The Association for the Study of Dreams conference XIII in

Berkeley California was the largest ASD conference ever and

people were turned away at about 500 participants. Another

novelty of the conference was that for the first time ASD

made plans and funded a special computer and dreaming

exhibit, featuring not only program demonstrations by

individual developers, but the collective & individual

projects concerning dreams on the Net.

For four days the Communal Dreaming Room was a networker's

paradise. Not only did we have 2 IBM PC and a MAC for

everyone to play with, but a half dozen other computers and

laptops that folks brought in to display and exhibit their

wares and communities.

At other times and places I will be reviewing the

individual programs and projects, here I just wanted to give

a summary and pass on the general feeling of excitement I

felt that comes with the opening to a new horizon.

In the mornings we had presentations , panels & classes.

Those on the net may feel that this is now all part of a

daily routine, but there are still many who haven't a clue as

to what is going on. The gap is lessening between pioneers

and the general public, but not as much as I had expected and

there is still a great deal of work & education to be done at

the front gate. One of the things I have learned is that just

because we are all in a general cooperative spirit doesn't

mean we are all in the same community. I originally felt that

the Web would be a place where distributed resources would

allow for a collective holding of shared material freeing the

individual to pursue his or her own unique identity. In other

words, we would each hold on our site a piece of the

collective info, but focus on what makes us unique. Electric

Dreams is like this, and I thought the rest of Cyberspace

would be too. Not so. Individuals need and want cyber real-

estate. I don't want to judge this, just recognize that while

each person may share some distributed info & we also seem to

need a place we can call our own. To address this, I am

suggesting a collective project - That we get all interested

parties together and *share* a web spot where we create the

History of Dreams and Dreaming Site. This would be a site

that was co-owned and would grow from interest more than

planning and dictates. Those who are interested would

contribute. If you are interested in this project, drop me a


Another oversight on my part on planning this ASD event

was that I somehow didn't realize until too late that this

was really the first International Meeting of Cyber-Dream

Pioneers, and never called an official meeting. Perhaps,

like cyberspace itself, its best to just let events happen.

It was wonderful to see so many of the people I had only

known online face-to-face. But I would also like to thank the

many, many folks who helped put this event together. I have

built an acknowledgement page especially for you that will go

down in the history of cyberspace and dreaming. (See the ASD

XIII confernence site for the Acknowledgement page)

For those of you who like to experiment with new

programs, there were several products being demonstrated, at

various stages of development, and they were all interested

in having beta testers. Bjo Ashwill has a wonderful content

analysis program that will be available. John Gallagher &

David Hochman are developing a national dream registry and

will eventually be able to develop dream weather reports for

researchers. There were several dream journaling and

interpretive assistance programs, including the work of Sarah

Richards, Timothy Tate and Cypress Inc - see reviews below.

If you are interested in being a beta tester, drop me a line

an I will send you name along.

Another way to summarize the events. Please feel free to

still visit the Conference XIII Education and Index Page.

This site will remain up for another month and has wonderful

summaries of & links to online dream resources in dreams and

art, dreams and research, dreams and dreamwork and the many

other online dream inventions, venues and weboramas.

Next year the ASD Conference will be in Asheville, NC and

I won't be able to attend - so if someone is feeling

adventurous - Robert Gongloff could use some volunteers to

put together a computer expo for that meeting.. It is at a

college, so there should be some facilities already there.

What I want to know is, when will we have the first

International Cyber Dreaming Conference?

-Richard Wilkerson


Interview with Kephrea

by Victoria Quinton

May 1996


VQ Hi Khephera

How did you come to be called Khephera?

Kh It came about very recently, actually. Since my

becoming Wiccan, I had been using the name Aaron Jason (which

should have been my real first and middle names), but it has

since become my real name, as it were. Sooner or later I'll

be changing my name legally to Aaron Jason Leitch.

So, I suppose that left a need for a Magickal Name.

Something to be used only for Ritual purposes, and Priestly

actions (such as most of my correspondence on the Nets).

About half a year ago, I purchased a silver Scarab Ring,

inset with Lapis Lazuli (my ultimate favorite stone). I

hadn't had it on for more than ten minutes when the Name came

to me (from on High I would have to say).

Khephera, or Kepera, Xepera, etc, is the Name of the Egyptian

God Re in His aspect of Creator. Khephera takes the form of

the Scarab. The Ancient Egyptian saw the Scarab hatch it's

eggs in dung, and therefore saw the Scarab as a Being who

could bring life from death and waste. Also, as the Scarab

rolled the dung into little spheres and rolled them it it's

nest, the Egyptian saw the Sun God rolling the sphere of the

Sun across the sky. For someone like me, it's surprising to

have a Sun-God's Name (I'm no big fan of the Sun itself).

However, it adds a good amount of balance to my otherwise

Dark attributes. Khephera literally translates as

"Creation", "Dawning", "Formation", etc. In Hebrew it would

be called "Yetzirah", such as in the Sepher Yetzirah (Book of

Dawning), and as in the Third Qabalistic World: the Astral

World of Yetzirah.

VQ How would you describe your technique(s) of dream


Kh I've never accomplished any real technique of dream

working, per se. I involve myself mainly with Astral Trips

(Visionary workings). I will create an image of the Force I

wish to explore, and then project through that symbol to "the

other side".

As for something more along the lines of dreams, there are a

couple of things. First off, I have a good knack at dream

interpretation. Most likely, my empathic abilities help out

there (though I can't say I'm sure). My intuition isn't

shabby at all, and Divination is one of my strong

I'm sure that's where it comes from.

Finally, I have had some experiences with dream states as

well. Most of them have happened not while "asleep", but

rather while I was nested in that twilight-place between

dreaming and waking. ;) It is there that I can best

perceive Spirits (I call them Astral Nasties).

Oh, and I also have to add a couple of full-dream

experiences. Many times a Wizard might be attacked while

asleep. Not so much by other Wizards...but by the Astral

Nasties who are attracted by the Energy raised by the Wizard

day to day. More than once I have had dreams where I knew I

was about to fight "something". These dreams invariably

involve my gearing up for a fight, and being quite excited at

the prospect. :) The fight rarely happens once the entity

sees that I am not afraid, and MORE than able to handle it.

Only once have I been actually attacked in a dream- I was

burned on the hand, and the burn showed up on my hand.

However, it was easily dispatched once I realized I was being

attacked. I suppose I could describe most of these

encounters in detail later on....

VQ What would be the first question you would ask

about a dream?

Kh It would have to be: What did you dream? :):):) From

there I would try and interpret it. I would also ask

questions about what was going on in the waking life of the


VQ Would you ask different question(s) about

visualisations/ daydreams?

Kh As per the above, no. But, it is a different situation.

Unless the dream was a lucid one, then the day-dream is more

under the control of the consciousness than a dream.

VQ Would the questions be directed at the dreamer or

the animals/others who may appear in any visualisation?

To the dreamer. Though I believe in the separateness of such

Beings, I also understand that they are ultimately a part of


VQ Do you think that the person whose dream it is would need

knowledge of "The Ancients" to be helped by you?

Kh Not at all. Unless I can see that a God has manifested to

someone, that is For instance, one lady told me she kept

having dreams about a water-bird of some sort (like an Ibis).

I suggested that this could be Thoth (Egyptian God of Wisdom,

Writing, and Inspiration). She replied that she had, for

some reason, been inspired to do a lot of writing recently.

In fact, a lot of Thoth-ian things had been happening to her

as of late- even though she had not previously known anything

about Thoth.

Other than that, each dream is only what it means to the


VQ Do you know much about lucid dreaming?

Kh I know about it, but I don't do it often. Of course,

anytime you Astral Travel that is lucid dreaming. But, as

for going to sleep, and controlling your, I don't

accomplish that much.

VQ Has your "style" been influenced more by book

learning or word of mouth?

Kh Hard to say. Everything I know has come from books, word

of mouth, and (dare I say) Divine Reception...kind of

mish-mash of all of it. I suppose Books have been the

largest part of it though...

VQ Would you consider yourself to be a shaman?

Kh That's an interesting question. I am a Wiccan Priest,

and Wicca is definitely a kind of Shamanism. However, the

word "shaman" evokes a specific image in my mind. Someone

who knows the land, and can live off of it, much better than

myself. I suppose I could be called a kind of urban shaman

of sorts <SHRUG>. I can heal, I travel the inner-plains of

consciousness (astral realms), I can affect the weather and

other sorts of magicks, I am extremely empathic, and I am

currently studying herbology.

However, at this point I don't feel connected enough to the

Land Itself to really feel much like a shaman. I'm working

on it, though. ;)

VQ I was just looking over our interview and thinking that

people may ask "what does Wiccan mean"?

If they were to ask, how would you answer that one?

Kh: Definitely no simple answer....;)

But, I would probably say that it is a Relgion based on

either Dual-Theism or at least a view of a Single Divine

Source which operates as two Deities. These Deities are

simply the God and Goddess. Their Names vary depending on

what pantheon you follow.

It was created in the late 40's by a Mr. Gerald Gardner. It

incorporates aspects of various mystical traditions, with a

large amount of WitchCraft.

VQ Where would be a good starting point for people to

find out about Ceremonial Magicians?

Kh: For someone just curious, I couldn't say. Except for

getting into one of the Magick Echoes and asking some of us.

For learning how to do Ceremonial Magick, I always recommend

Don Kraig's "Modern Magick". Modern Magick: Eleven Lessons

in the High Magickal Arts Donald Michael Kraig 1988 (Eighth

Printing, 1993) Llewellyn Publications

ISBN 0-87542-324-8

He teaches you the basics, Golden Dawn style (Qabalistic

Based Magick). From there you can go into any kind of

Ceremonial Magick you wish: Wiccan, Egyptian, Babylonian,



VQ Where to find Ceremonial Magicians to talk to if

people were interested....

Kh Ah! One of the better places is the Fido echo called

"Magick". Also, just about anywhere on the PODS Network.

Especially "Book of Shadows".

VQ I had spoken to Khephera about my "Amulet" dream; the

amulet had a lapis lazuli centre.:... I still don't have any

lapis lazuli, but I do have a zodiac pendant with a blue

glass centre that appealed to me.

Kh Must be the blue, then. :) Color of the Night Sky?

VQ Well more a royal blue.. actually blue in a flame came

to me through some dream working.

Kh That's always a good way of seeing it. Back when I

started (and it stays with me to this day), I was taught to

project images in "gas-jet" blue. Blue is also one of the

better meditation colors.

VQ Anything to do with the Ancient (if eternal things can

age) Gods?

Kh Of course. ;) Most of my Astral Work and Visions are

centered on encounters with Gods and Angels and Spirits.

VQ How did you come to learn Egyptian?

Kh: If you mean the language, I don't really "know" Egyptian.

I know enough for Ritual, and most of that was quoted from

the Book of the Dead. Other things- like the Magickal Motto

I sign all my posts with, are actually just straight

transliterations. Meaning I took a phrase in English, and

just looked up each word and gave the Egyptian. That's

really a horrible way to do things, as it doesn't allow for

the actual Egyptian language's grammar and syntax. So, I

don't do it often. If you mean Egyptian Magick, I came by

it kind of indirectly. For the most part, I have simply

taken Egyptian Symbolism and pasted it on top of Qabalistic

concepts. Well, not so I have also put a lot of

study into Egyptian Symbolism and Mythology so as to make

sure the cross-over into the

Qabalah was as "correct" as possible. Not to mention that

the Qabalah has some of it's deepest roots in Egypt anyway,

so it's not such a huge jump from one to the other. Most of

what I know about Egyptian symbolism, Mythos, and Magick

comes from the various wonderful works by E. A. Wallis Budge.

The rest is from Experience with the Egyptian Deities


Kh Ar ReX Em SeXem Eref Neter Au-a

VQ What does this mean? :)

Kh It's Egyptian for: "If knowledge is power, then a god am

I" It's my Magickal Motto...inscribed on my tools and

talismans, etc. It sums up the way I feel about the

universe...that knowledge is everything- and that the more

knowledge we possess, the more god-like we become. As Bill

Murray said in "Groundhog's Day": "Maybe God isn't really

omnipotent. Maybe He's just been around so long He knows


On the other hand, it also adds a bit of Discordianism into

my work. I got this phrase from none other than Jim Carey

(whom I idolize) as the Riddler in "Batman: Forever".

Knowing that my Magickal Motto came from such a source

(rather than Divine Reception or from some Ancient Writing or

Tradition) keeps everything in perspective, if you know what

I mean. :)

The translation into Egyptian was my idea. I could have made

it Latin, but I just didn't want to be like every other

Golden-Dawn style Wizard. I gotta be me! :)

Lastly, there is just one thing I stumbled on after I started

using the Motto. The Egyptian word for Power: "SeXem" is

also their word for "Higher Self". That is...the Egyptian

called his "Higher Self" his "Power". And, as we know, the

Higher Self is the most God-like aspect of ourselves. Thus,

the phrase canbe interpreted:

"If Knowledge = The True Self, then I am like unto a God."

Which basically is an affirmation that you are like a God

anyway...and the way to recognize that power is to recognize

the Higher Self. And how do you do that? By gaining

Knowledge. The Golden Dawn calls this: Knowledge and

Conversation of the Holy Guardian Angel. (translated: Direct

Communication with the Higher Self).

Blessed Be, may Yahweh and His Asherah guide and keep thee,

Ar ReX Em SeXem Eref Neter Au-a



interview conducted by Victoria Quinton during May 1996.

Be sure to send in email if you want Khephera to tell us more

about Astral



Dangerous Dreams - The risks of online dream sharing

By Richard Wilkerson


I was confronted at the ASD XIII conference with the notion

that dreams are too dangerous to be shared on the net. The

general idea was that there is something about dreams which

makes us so vulnerable, so helpless, that in the wrong hands

serious psychological damage may occur.

I started to dismiss this as the speculation of those not

familiar with online dream sharing. I receive a lot of e-mail

from psychologists & others who don't like the _idea_ of

dream sharing online - but haven't actually tried it

themselves. Generally these concerns dissipate upon a trial

experience. A example of this is the account by Jeremy

Taylor which he made public in DreamNetwork Journal 15(1) as

well as Electric Dreams 3(3). I'll also have more to say

later about why this occurs and how dream sharing on the Net

might draw on the experience of face-to-face group sharing

experience, yet in the final analysis constitutes a

fundamentally different environment and ecology.

But wait a minute. One of the self assigned tasks in my

life is to bring our culture into a relationship with

dreaming that moves in a different direction than, for

example, telling our children upon awakening, "Oh forget it,

it was just a dream". Simply dismissing the arguments about

the potency of dreams would be counter-productive.

Now to be fair, the main arguments made were about the

assumption of authority, the potential damage of telling

other people what their dreams mean rather than letting them

come to find this meaning with their own inner resources.

Dangerous material and dangerous uses of the material are

not the same, but do come together, just as with the issue of

gun control and substance abuse.

But be it danger of the dream material itself or the uses

of the material, there are some implicit assumptions I would

like to explore.

A question. Would an interpretation of a short story by

O'Henry draw the same concern, and if not, why? If I were

to tell O'Henry what I thought his story means, wouldn't he

simply take it or leave it like all other literary

criticisms? Even if O'Henry was personally offended by my

interpretation, would the story itself be seen as dangerous?

Probably not, and those who see the dream text as dangerous

would most likely say that we are not assuming to be

authorities over the life of O'Henry and tell him how to lead

it according to the story he wrote. Part of the danger lies

in the dream material itself, I'm told, but the other lies in

the approach to the dream material.

But there are also similarities and similar risks of exposure

in putting out any text, be it a dream story or a short


I take a risk when I put my creation out to be judged and

critiqued and analyzed in the public sphere. If we were

talking about a short story, the risk might have something to

do with my self-image and self-esteem. Was this story as good

as my last story, do people hate my writing style, maybe I

really am a bad writer. Part of this has to do with the

responsibility felt by the writer, the aspirations and hopes

of what public acceptance might entail, and the risks

associated with self-revelation, what I might be letting

people know about myself, my identity. This identity and

self-esteem that might be fragile and suffer humiliation,

embarrassment, chastisement, abandonment, isolation and

scapegoating if the public hated or criticized my work.

Given all of these risks, we still continue to write and put

our writings out publicly to be interpreted, even though we

know that our intentions will often be misunderstood. As a

matter of fact, it is now part of the Post-modern aesthetic

to release the text once it is written. That is to say, that

we no longer demand that the meaning of the text be the one

the author intended. Each reader may find his or her own

relationship with the text and it will be as valid as any

other. Whether the subjective interpretation is relevant to

the culture at the time or not is another matter.

Its been my feeling for sometime that dream texts are

somewhat similar. Certainly the technique of taking the dream

"as if it were your own" moves in this direction. In this

technique we approach a dream as if it were our story, not

the dreamers, and then talk about the ways it is relevant to

us, how the imagery moves us, how we give it meaning and how

it returns to us its significance. The author of the dream is

decentered. Each person in the participating group *has* the

dream. This de-centralization of the ego is furthered in

the work of James Hillman, a archetypalist who would like to

see the dream as having *nothing* to do with the dreamer.

That the dream gains it power from just that fact, that it is

centered around archetypal rather than individual forces.

Are dream texts riskier and more dangerous than say, a short

story we write? I think the answer lies in the direction of

"For those who have ears, sound can be painful". But let me

unpack this quote by looking a century long fantasy that our

culture has purchased.

During the last days of the 19th Century, Freud was putting

the final touches on his favorite book _The Interpretation of

Dreams_. This book was written in the middle of a cultural

horizon that was participating in the idea that with just a

little more knowledge and reason, the whole universe could be

rationally understood. Freud's ideas on the role of the

irrational not only shocked his Victorian Peers, but

eventually swayed them to acceptance. But it was a special

kind of acceptance. This was pre-chaos theory days. The

irrational was accepted, but only as the province of

psychology. The Natural World was still safe and would

eventually be fully understood by the rational mind.

And so dreams became aligned with the irrational and, this is

my point, aligned with psychology. (There is also a hidden

ethic in Christianity about the natural and the irrational

being the same, but that's another topic).

What Hillman and other are saying is that psyche is larger

than psychology - and so too are dreams. Yes, there are

innumerable debts and long traditions and a whole host of

clinical practices that involve dreams, but they are not only

the province of psychology.

Since 1953 and the first REM experiments, the scientific

community has know this. Even around Freud's time there were

a host of natural scientists observing and studying dreams

outside their clinical uses. Many famous writers have drawn

upon dreams not for psychological insight, but for

inspiration in writing. Artists have always know the value of

dreams for inspiration. The Surrealist took dreams beyond the

psychological and aesthetic into the political, showing how

dreams can be used to move us past repressive habits into the

marvelous. Lucid dreamers and extraordinary dreamers, group

dreamers and dream flyers enjoy dreams for the sake of the

experience itself.

None of this is meant as evidence that the dream is or isn't

dangerous. It is a statement saying that the dream is not

owned by psychology and psychologists, nor by clinicians or

the board of behavioral sciences.

I haven't yet been able to understand the arguments that

dreams in and of themselves are simply too psychologically

toxic, too revealing, to apt to cause major psychological

damage in and of themselves. The damage theory seems to come

more from how we approach dreams, what people think and feel

they are doing when they share them with a qualified or

unqualified individual or group.

I will guess that those who are concerned about the danger of

the dream are more concerned about people coming to share

dreams and expecting some kind of psychotherapeutic effect or

environment. The explanation of the danger here will vary

according to the psychological perspective. From the

perspective of the innocent dreamer, the problem is that they

have *already* given over the function of the creation of

meaning and value to a supposed authority. In a sense, we

are all kind of in this position with dreams as we feel any

need to interpret them at all. I don't feel the need to

interpret my going to work in the morning (well, most

mornings) but there is a call I have imposed upon myself with


Is this more dangerous than simply going along with the

rest of my culture and society and saying, "Well, it was just

dream" and forgetting it? I suppose it is - in that my path

now includes the dream text and my explorations of it. Going

through it, with it, are then more dangerous than if I had

just left well enough alone.

But it hardly justifies the position that dreams and opinions

about dream should not be shared. Even if we grant that

dreams hold some potential for danger, just what is the

actual frequency that we can expect, let's say a borderline,

to go off the edge from discussion of the meaning of his or

her dream? It seems to me that if the frequency of such

incidence is equal to or less than, say, that of a discussion

of other parts of one's life, that we are really making the

environment way too restrictive and safe for any particular

adult population.

There are a few life practices I am not yet willing to hand

over to the *exclusive* use of the psychotherapeutic

encounter. One is self exploration, another is the

investigation of the meaning and value of life, and another

is the significance of events in my life, including dreaming.

What about the discussion of the meaning and value of your

dreams? Do I have to choose a category to make relevant

remarks about them? Do I have to say, "Now I'm being

spiritual" "Now I'm being psychological", "Now I'm being

artistic", "now I'm being humorous?". Granted, the

dreamworker has been cross categorical and a problem for a

long time. Every major religion began with the core folks

being into dreams - and every major religion eventually

banned dream interpretation. Why? The current thought on this

is that dreams tend to question and play with things, and one

of the things they play with & question are structures of

repressive authority. I guess the Orthodoxy would say that

since there can be no authority on dreams, no one should be

allowed to make meaning of them. The Christian church has

historically make exceptions for saints.

But I'm moving a little off the track. Let me shift from

the exploration of how dangerous dreams and dream

interpretation may be in general to the venue specific

ecologies of Cyberspace dream sharing.

The Ecology of Cyberspace.

I feel it is pretty clear to those both online and offline

that if we were to hold a dream group face-to-face and only

allow people to write notes on a bulletin board, it would be

a very different group than one where voice and body

movements were allowed. Now imagine that everyone in the

group had a mask on and the message board was in a room that

only one person at a time could enter, at any time during a

two week period.

As John Herbert has noted in an unpublished study on the

difference between online and offline groups, one of the main

differences is the reflective quality of the Online groups

and the emotionally pitched quality of the face-to-face

groups. This emotional pitch picks up a bit in real time

chat, but never quite reaches the face-to-face pressure.

This is not a judgement of one being superior over the other,

just a note that it is much more likely for emotional

instability to play a factor in face-to-face encounters.

(However, Herbert did note that online groups were rated

higher in self rating scores of insight gained). The point

here is that in cyberspace there is a time factor, a infusion

of reflective imagination over reactions. There is time to

consider other people's reactions as well.

Another built in factor is the new mix of social and

individual space, we are anonymous and alone in a public


Fred Olsen, during the ASD XIII DreamWork in Cyberspace

Panel told the story of a man who during dreamwork session in

a chat room reported that he touched something and began to

cry. It was a area of his emotional life he had tried to

contact in groups before but felt inhibited. By being both

alone in his room, and also being online with a group, he was

able to access a realm previous unavailable to him.

The other side of this social anonymity is the continual

peer review. Yes, we can say mean things and "get away" with

it because no one knows who we are, but that doesn't mean

that 5 people won't immediately step in and point out how

cruel or inappropriate the remark was. For good or bad, there

is always a kind of self-monitoring that occurs online, part

of the piece in progress idea.

With Dream interpretation on public channels, this means

that someone may interpret your dream in a way that is

extremely undermining of everything you value. But it also

means that a lot of other people will be there to say that is

just exactly what is happening, and model approaches you may

have never guessed at or would have never experienced.

Along with this is the ethic of freedom of speech. Yes, we

have to allow Neo-Nazi's and other fanatics their say, but

this is the price of freedom and most of us still think it is

worth it. In a culture where we practice telling our children

that "it was just a dream" I prefer to have lots of wild

interpretations flying around than repression. This means

that to participate in our society, the adult has to been

able to handle free speech. To begin saying that there are

adult citizens who can't, is a serious theoretical and

political statement.

So, is dream sharing more like rock climbing, psychotherapy

or literary criticism? Are there approaches to the dream and

context of dream sharing that are not safe for most people

and need to be mediated beyond the natural mechanisms of the

Net? My judgement, that it *is* safe, is still un-proven

but gaining experiential evidence. I talked to other

dreamworkers at the ASD XIII conference who have been

exploring dreamworking online, including John Herbert,

Jeremey Taylor, Jayne Gackenbach and Electric Dreams

community dreamworkers and have yet to find *one* single case

of an unhappy camper. Again, there are many who find the

process useless, and don't like the _idea_ of dreamsharing -

but not one bad experience has been reported in now what is

about the 3rd public year and several pre-public years of

online dream sharing. If other adult activities that are

deemed dangerous can boast these statistics, I think they

would be hardly be called dangerous.

Still, I want to stay open to the potential dangers and

encourage those who do feel dream sharing is dangerous online

to help us see this, and ways we might avoid harming one

another with our often frank and honest assessments of one

another's dream stories. As a matter of fact, I we now have

a wide variety of venues in which to discuss this. The first

is the Electric Dreams E-zine itself. While we hold some

editorial discression and power, we are generally open to

publishing just about anything that is related to dreams.

Electric Dreams also has a Bulletin Board that can be used

for this issue and we encourage "Watch Dog Lurkers" on any or

all of our dream groups. And now ASD, the Association for

the Study of Dreams, is also reviewing this issue and has a

public bulletin board to post relevant topics in this area.

I would also like to suggest the original alt.dreams as a

forum for discussion as well.

Let's say that dream are potentially wonderful, and save the

dangerous warnings for a culture that hides away and

represses dream discussions.


DREAM WORK TOOLS - Review of products at ASD XIII

Dream Disc-tionary, created by Cypress Specialty

Software, brings the power of the PC to dream studies.

Designed for use on a PC with Windows, Dream Disc-tionary

features a symbols dictionary, dream journal, diary entry,

quick lookup and add word functions.

The basic dictionary contains over 2000 symbols. You can

customize the dictionary by adding symbols and definition of

personal significance.

Dreams stored in the journal can be searched for

recurring symbols. A report will be displayed indicating

the dates and dream titles in which a selected symbol


Other reports include: Quick Analysis, Dream/Diary

summary, Symbols Definitions, Related Symbols definitions

and Reference List. Reports can be viewed on screen or


Even if you are new to dream work, this program can

introduce you to dream analysis with demos, sample cases, a

program manual and online help files. Also included is a

suggested reading list.

If you have Internet access, you can see an online demo

by visiting the CSSI web site at

In the sample demo you can lookup symbol definitions in the

basic dictionary.

The Dream Disc-tionary sells for $49.95. For more

information contact Cypress Specialty Software, Inc.

By phone at: (714) 952-8328

By e-mail:

By U.S. mail: CSSI

P.O. Box 2514

Cypress, CA 90630-1214



July 26, 1996


GD News is a distributed news and events project sponsored by

Electric Dreams, DreamGate and The Novato Center for Dreams.

Please send all material to the Dream News and Calendar

Events editor, Peggy Coats


==== I N D E X ====



















The Researchers from the ASD XIII conference are interested

in getting help on testing out their new programs and

programs that are in development and will be ready later this

year. These programs include content analysis programs for

your dream texts, statistical programs for symbols, national

dream registries and other dream analysis & journaling

programs. If you are interested in participating, send your

name and snail address to Richard Wilkerson,

and I will put you on the list for product distribution.


PEGASUS DREAMING, a new Dream Poetry Journal edited by

Patricia Kelly, is seeking submissions of poetry inspired by

dreams. This is a good place for those who are interested to

get published, and a great place for those who are not to

enjoy the wonderful expressiveness of the dream psyche. The

maximum length is 30 words, and a donation of $5 is requested

if you would like to run a dream-related ad. For more

information, contact The Shield

Institute, 450 7th Avenue, Suite 1804, New York, NY, 718)



Get your dreams published in dozens of publications and Net


I've had an idea for awhile that I wanted to try out with

dream texts. (with humor) Back in the old days, we used to

go to one therapist, maybe for 10 or 20 years , and the idea

of the theraputic container was established. To become rid of

our neurosis we had to learn to stick with one intimate other

who mediated all our psychological material.

Times have changed (no value judgement - just facts).

Insurance companies won't pay for that approach anymore and

short term counselling articles & concerns fill the journals.

But in the grassroots dreamland the idea of singleness

and loyalty still lingers. Those who post a dream on

alt.dreams are unlikely to post on alt.jung. Those who post

with Electric Dreams are unlikely to post on DreamLink or in

a dream group.

I have an idea. Remember the practice of Rush Week? It was

at the beginning of the freshman college year and one would

get to visit for a day *all* of the frat and sorority houses.

So why not a Rush Program for Dreams?

We could even have "cycles" where a dream is passed around

and comments are harvested and collected and later printed as


I'd like to start slow, just a few dreams, careful to get

permissions, ect. The Rush Dreams would be cycled through a

variety of venues that publish dreams both online and


Project Name: "The Dream Fountain", as we will be cycling

and re-cycling dreams through wonderful spouts of conceptual

sculptures, venues and cyber-ecologies, lifting the dreams up

and allowing them to funnel back down into the origninal


Dreamers: you can plug in at any one of several points in the

Fountain, for now send you dreams to Electric Dreams with a

MARK that indicates permission to cross-post: (F) or

Fountain, or [DF] for Dream Fountain permission granted.

Dream Tenders and Posters: (Oneirofonts) If you are

interested in being a key player in this, and offering a

venue that you would be willing to post or publish others

dreams once or twice a month, drop me a line. Be clear about

your parameters (one dream a month, posting on alt.dreams and

then copying and sending results once a month, publishing in

a local newsletter...and so on)

contact Richard Wilkerson,



If you have wished for an opportunity to explore your

personal soul work in the company of people who have retained

a living connection to "primitive imagination" you might be

interested in a tour being led by David Tacey Director of the

Center for Archetypal Studies at La Trobe University,

Melbourne Australia.

Participants will accompany David to the Red Center of

Australia where they will live among the Pitjantjatjara

people and learn from a people who operate in many different

levels of reality, as we do, but at levels that are different

from ours. The "deep listening" and "dreaming" that is

possible in this environment may confront the participants

with an unusually clear experience of Soul.

The group leaves Los Angeles Sept 25 and returns Oct 6, l996.

After a 3 day orientation period in Sydney, the group will

fly to Alice Springs.

Accomodations will include hotels and 4 nights camping under

the stars in a comfortable swag which is a bedroll mattress,

pillow and sleeping bag all encased in a waterproof canvas.

Group is limited to 15 persons. For info Email

<> or

call 541-899-8843


Bob Trowbridge has recently published a new book entitled

"The Hidden Meaning of Illness: Disease as a Symbol &

Metaphor" from A.R.E. Press.

Working from the premise that dreams are meaningful, and, if

life is meaningful, we can work on our life experiences just

as we work on our dreams, Bob presents a philosophical

framework and practical tools for dealing with illnesses as

dreams, using illness as a physical metaphor which can lead

to greater healing. The ISBN number for the book is


If unavailable in your bookstore, copies can be ordered

directly from the author: Bob Trowbridge, 1050 Crestview

Drive #29, Mountain View, CA 94040.

Questions? Call directly at 415) 961.9109.


Arnold Mindell is a noted Jungian analyst, who developed

process-oriented psychology, or Dreambody Work; a powerful

way of working holistically which integrates body, mind and

spirit. Process or Dreambody work deepens many therapeutic

modalities such as body work, communication and system

theories, dreamwork, physics and spirituality.

Virginia Dennehy, Ph.D., a licensed psychologist, will be

offering a workshop on process work meeting once monthly,

August through December, in Oakland, California, at the

Skyline Community Church, 12540 Skyline Blvd. Participants

are asked to commit to the series, and the cost is $75 per


For more information, contact Virginia Dennehy, 539 Lincoln,

Palo Alto, CA, 94301. Telephone: 415) 326-6115.


The Creative Harmonics Institute in Mount Shasta, California,

will be presenting a three-day wilderness retreat August

15-18 with Shanja Kirstann. the retreat will feature

innovative dreamwork techniques, expressive approaches to

dreamwork (including drawing, dancing, singing, drama and

enactment of dream ritual) and methods to attune to the

visionary and dreamtime realms such as meditation, toning,

drumming and poetry.

Shanja Kirstann is a seasoned leader of Vision Quests, a

former teacher at JFK Graduate School of Consciousness, and a

student of Jean Houston and Marian Woodman.

The retreat includes three vegetarian meals daily, bathrooms,

and 40 acres of wilderness with trails, river, cedar grove

and labyrinth. Fee is $295.

For more information, contact Creative Harmonics Institute,

P.O. Box 940, Mt. Shasta, Ca 96067, or contact Shanja

Kirstann at 415) 256-1312, e-mail



Walt Stover is in the process of publishing a book through


(Association for Research and Enlightenment) on precognitive

dreams, and needs additional dream material. For more

information, contact him directly in Marietta, Georgia at

707) 565.6215.

For those of you who are precognitive dreamers, chek out the

Central Premonitions Registry at -- a place to register

precognitive dreams.

=================== DREAMS & SECRETS PROJECT

Want to participate in an interesting exhibit featuring

dreams and secrets?

Peter Rosvik, of Vasa, Finland, is creating an exhibit to be

shown in 1997 and needs your help. The idea is that anyone

who desires to participate will send an envelope containing a

small text about dreams that never came true, or dreams about

the future, along with a small object that is meaningful,

symbolic, or of secret value known only to the sender. You

can make your own envelope, or enhance a purchased one in any

way you choose.

Just mark the envelope with the title of the project: DREAMS

AND SECRETS and send to:

Peter Rosvik

Hovrattsesplanaden 3 B 2

FIN-65100 Vasa, Finland

Mark your name and address on the back of the envelope so

Peter can thank you for your participation. Please note that

the envelopes will remain sealed, so the contents are secure.

For more information on the project, contact Peter at

<>, or telephone +358 (9)61 3122067.



Hervey de Saint-Denys, who died in 1892, was most famous for

his work with lucid dreaming, but was also a well-known dream

researcher in the 19th century. Oniros has recently printed

his complete works, drawn from primary research, in two

volumes. Although the material is in French, Oniros is

looking for individuals who may be interested in translating

into English.

The set sells for $60. For more information, contact ONIROS

at BP 30, 93451, Ile St. Denis, Cedex, France, telephone



Pierre Grimes is a philosopher who founded the Noetic

Society, Inc., for the Study and Exploration of Platonic and

Neoplatonic Thought. Author of "A New Paradigm for

Understanding Human Problems: The Pathologos and its

Validation", he has adapted the Socratic art of philosophical

midwifery to a new class of human problems.

His Fall 1995 lecture series on dreams is now available on

video tape. The five tapes include "Philosophical Midwifery &

Dreams: the Doorway into Metaphysics", "Dreams in Sequence",

"The Anatomy of Dreams: Divisions, Sequences, Conflicts,

Symbols, Logos and their application", "Exploring Dreams:

Symbols, the Logos and Meditation" and "The Imminent Wisdom

of the Dream Master".

For more information, contact GCA/DMA, 5132 Bolsa Avenue,

#101, Huntington Beach, CA 92649. Telephone 7140 890-7055

============== FREUD & JUNG, TWO NEW BOOKS

Sometimes it seems as though Freud and Jung will be forever

paired in our minds, and even in the world of publishing!

Two new books, separately, but recently out on the two

leaders in modern psychology:

Farrell, J. (1996). *Freud's paranoid quest: Psychoanalysis

and modern suspicion*. N.Y.: NYU Press, US$34.95. Argues

that Freud's personal paranoia interacted with modern trends

to produce psychoanaysis' intellectual structure.

Gallant, C. (1996). *Tabooed Jung: Marginality as power.* NY:

NYU Press. Argues that Jung has been marginalized by

mainstream psychoanalysis; that this marginalization has

itself helped to shape both traditions.


Pacifica Graduate Institute in Santa Barbara, California is

presenting a series of seminars for 1996 with Dr. Stephen

Aizenstat, whose work has centered on 'tending the living

image' particularly in the context of dreamwork. Dr.

Aizenstat is the founding President of Pacifica Graduate

Institute, and a clinical psychologist.

"Learning the Craft of Dreamwork", September 6-8, 1996, will

be an

introductory three-day seminar demonstrating a variety of

methods of dream interpretation, and exploring common dream

themes, nightmares, archetypal imagery and recurring dreams.

Topics include: The Personal Unconscius, The Collective

Unconscious, The World Unconscious and a special presentaton

on Animals in dreams.

"Therapeutic Applications of Dreamwork", September 9-13, 1996

is an advanced course exploring the multidimensional psyche

and integrative dreamwork.

Topics include: The Multidimensional Psyche, Dreamwork and

Depth Psychology, Tending the Living Image, the Healing Power

of Dreams and special workshop on mask making.

For more information, contact Pacific Graduate Institute, 249

Lambert Road, Carpinteria, CA 93013. Phone 805) 969.3626, Fax

805) 565.1932.


Dreams in the World's Family, a retreat co-sponsored by the

Association for the Study of Dreams and the Yosodhara Ashram

Society will take place September 6-8, 1996. The retreat will

focus on bringing a cross-cultural perspective to dream work

by drawing together different cultural approaches to dreams.

Workshops and academic presentations will be offered


the weekend, and the evenings will be filled with stories,

songs and dreamtime ceremonies. For more information, contact

the ASD, P.O. Box 1600,

Vienna, VA 22183. Phone 703) 242.0062, or check the web site



Electric Dreams offers participatory Dream Wheels via email

on a regular basis for any interested dreamworkers. Now we

have a new home on the World Wide Web as well. If you'd like

to participate in the Dream Wheels, check out our link on

Linton Hutchinson's Dream Link Web Site at and click on "Dream

Wheel" to get instructions. Or, contact our Education

Director, Chris Hicks at <>

======================= SOMNIAL TIMES SEEKS DREAMS

Somnial Times is the dream newsletter of the DREAMERS Special

Interest Group of American Mensa. It is a delightful

publication that will get your dreams in print. To send your

dreams, e-mail Gloria Reiser





Although this site was create for the past conference,

don't miss our on the chance to see the exhibits on dreams

and cyberspace in research, art, and dream sharing. Also, the

best annotated index to dream related sites can be found at

this Expo!

============= DREAM HARROWING

Giving Lucid Dreaming a little competition, this magical

site will put you in touch with a special journey!


============= MYTHOLOGY WEB SITE

The Encyclopedia Mythica" is available on the web for those

interested in mythology, folklore, and mysticism. It includes

mythologies related to Chinese, Greek, Native American,

Persian, and other cultures. To access the encyclopedia:


Carolyn Plette's new site offers practical info about dream

work , and a Windows-based software product that provides a

workspace for doing dream analysis and other reflective

activities. It takes a educational approach to dream work,

and encourages participation with others via email:


Check out a new graphical web site about Lucid Dreaming,

where you can find several tips and tricks on how to do it in

a graphical environemnt. The site uses frames so only

netscape 2.0/explorer 3.0 users can see it.

============= MAKING MANDALAS

Here's a site devoted to creating and using mandalas for

spiritual growth.

Jung and many others have used mandalas to connect with inner

symbols and express them in the outer world. These healing

circles are also a great way to do dreamwork!

============= NUTCRACKER SUITE

To enjoy the dreaming mind and links of a very prolific

dreamer, tune into The Nutcracker Suite. Also included are

many tips and techniques for journaling and keeping track of

your dreams:




Aug 01 to Palo Alto, California, USA

Aug 05 Consciousness: Dreaming & Waking

Contact: The Lucidity Institute,


or email <>

Aug 01 to DreamGate E-mail Classes on Dreaming

Dec 01 Via E-mail. contact Richard

Aug 09 to Soquel, California, USA

Aug 11 Dreamtime, Tranining With Jeremy Taylor

Contact (408) 462-8383

Aug 10 to Oakland, California, USA

Dec 07 Working with the Dreaming Body

Contact: Virginia Dennehy, 415) 326-6115

Aug 15 to Mt. Shasta, California, USA

Aug 18 Dream Medicine Wilderness Retreat

Contact: Shanja Kirstan at 415)256-1312,


Mid Aug Unlocking the Secrets of your Dreams

mid Oct Dreaming Classes on the Net. contact

Internet Dream Course:

Aug 18 San Francisco Bay Area, California, USA

Bay Area Dream Workers Group Picnic,

2pm-6pm Contact Jim Emergy at

510) 526-5510. Email:


Aug 24 San Francisco, California, USA

Dreaming, Drumming and Lucidity with

Fariba Bogzaran

Contact: 415) 663.1206

Sep 02 to Dreaming in Bali.

Sep 16

Sep 06 to Santa Barbara, California, USA

Sep 08 Seminar: Learning the Craft of Dreamwork

Pacifica Graduate Institute, 805) 969.3626

Sep 09 to Santa Barbara, California, USA

Sep 13 Seminar; Therapeutic Applications of

Dreamwork - Pacifica Graduate

Institute, 805) 969.3626

Sep 13 to San Anselmo, California, USA

Sep 15 Seeing Dreams in a New Light

Contact (415) 258- 0402


Oct 06 Edge of the Sacred Tour with David Tracy

For info Email or

call 541-899-8843


For Compuserv subscribers, very Monday, at 10:00 am EST,

Donna Campos hosts

"Dream Studio" in the New Age Forum. Here's the schedule for


Monday, Aug. 5: Precognitive Dreams with Alex Palermo

Monday, Aug. 12: Dreams of Spiders and Snakes

Monday, Aug. 19: Soul Traveler with Albert Taylor

Monday, Aug. 26: Group Dream Healing Project

=============== Lucid Dreaming On MSN


Hosts: Paranormal Chat 7-9 PM PDT Thrusdays

MSN go to Word: ALIEN CHAT

Lucid Dreamer's Handouts-







Hi! Welcome to the Dreams Section of ELECTRIC DREAMS. In

this section , we publish dreams submitted by the readers.

We also publish commentary provided by readers and members of

an involved group in our community called the ED-CORE. The

ED-CORE receives copies of the dreams before they make the

next edition of ED, and that s why some of the dreams

appearing for the first time already have commentary. These

commentaries are not meant to provide professional or medical

assistance, but rather to expand the horizons of the dreams

themselves through viewpoints of others. It is up to the

dreamer to draw conclusions as to what directions make sense

and what actions to take as a result of knowing shared

viewpoints. What may be significant for one person, may be

meaningless for another. By sharing a dream, as participant

or observer, as sharer or commentator, we are all enriched

with a sharper focus on some part of our human condition.

Enjoy this months journey! - BK



Traditionally, dreams have been presented pretty much in a

chronological order in ED. The published sequence roughly

mirrored the sequence in which they were received. Upon the

suggestion of some readers who would prefer a more structured

format, I have made an attempt to categorize the dreams. I

am also tagging the dreams with some keywords to help

readers zero in on those dream topics which are of most

interest to them, without having to read the whole section

cover to cover. The results were quite unexpected. I

thought it would be very difficult and so it is, but the

dreams submitted since our last issue do fall in some natural

basic categories. Let me know what you think of this

grouping. The grouping will be a project-in-process as it

evolves over time. There are so many dream classification

systems that just trying to cover the title of all possible

categories would expand ED by many pages. What are your

suggestions for Dream Categories? Let me know at

Bobk829887@AOL.COM. - BK


As always thanks to the generous dreamers for sharing their

gems and to the dream commentators for sharing their

insight. Special thanks this month to Island for her

extensive contributions, and to Jesse Reklaw our ED Artistic

Director who provided a set of dreams submitted to him for

illustrations (with the authors permission).



-from JESSE:

Subj: electric dream submissions

Date: 96-06-27 14:49:31 EDT

From: (Jesse Reklaw)



I'm enclosing a number of dreams by different people that I

will be illustrating in a future issue of Concave Up, the

comic book of dreams that I illustrate.

I have acquired permission from all these people to post

their dreams here for possible commentary. I hope to

illustrate the dreams with these comments in mind, and I may

also print some text of the commentary in the back of the

comic (with the commentator's permission). Of course I will

mention the terrific dream-sharing resource Electric Dreams,

as well as credit those who contributed thoughts on the


Could you please encourage people to include the name by

which they would like to be credited for commentary, state if

they would like to have their commentary printed in the comic

book, and please Cc: all Emailed


I hope Electric Dreams subscribers will find this to be an

interesting project, and I hope the dreams themselves are

entertaining and stimulating. Thank you!

Jesse Reklaw



To & from ISLAND:


Thanks for all your contributions. In the last minute rush of

editing for the EDV3N5 issue, I edited out your very personal

and touching response on the Avocado Tree wrap up since I

wasn't sure if you meant is as a Dreamwheel Wrap up only, or

you were willing to share it with the whole ED community -as

it was part of the shared Dreamwheel from EDV3N4. I wanted to

ask you before sending it out, and there was no time left to

wait for a response. If it's ok with you I'll include it in

EDV3N6. Again many thanks for sharing your Dream Wisdom and a

specially profound example of the impact and many roots of



Dear Bob,

Thanks so much for your E-Mail. I wondered why it had been

edited out. Let me explain to you, however, my confusion. The

Avocado Tree dream was not a part of the DreamWheel scenario

or wrapup. Perhaps I didn't write with clarity. So let me

rework what I wrote so there is no confusion. Let me also add

that I am sensitive to the fact that there are those who feel

Electric Dreams is too long. I assume that is one of the

reasons why Nutcracker's dreams no longer appear. Though I do

not agree with the developing policy of cutting back because

I enjoy the fact that it's all there and available and can

exercise choice in whether I choose to read or not, print or

not, you may feel perfectly free to withhold from Electric

Dreams any of my submissions because space is tight, and I

tend to write at length. Plus I noted the E-mail that I sent

to you contained a number of comments, and two dreams: I

would certainly regret submitting to the extent that there is

a perceivable imbalance. In other words, I far prefer reading

what others have written than reading what I myself have

written because I learn more. And yet on the chance that I

might have something to offer, I submit it. Just so that you

understand where I'm coming from and to make your task a

little easier.

You may place in ED3:6 the following, if you feel this is an

improvement upon what I submitted before -- please note,

however, that in rewriting it, more has happened and I have

(unfortunately) added to its length. There is a comment I

received by E-Mail that also missed ED3:5. I have included

her comment in the body of what follows.

Now -- I will make your task a little more difficult. At the

end of the Avocado Tree dream and comments, I am including

the wrap up of the Dream Wheel scenario (because I am not

sure which you were referring to in your E-Mail to me). That

also did not appear in ED3:5. But the same statement I made

earlier applies: If it's too long, inappropriate, causes an

imbalance in ED3:6, etc., then don't put it in. The text

below is 3800 words.






== Commentary on "Old Lady on a Motorcycle" (ED3:V3N5) by

Island (96.06.25)

The Dream:

I am watching as a disembodied observer. I see an old lady on

a motorcycle. She refuses to put hub caps on her back wheels.

She wants the spokes exposed. She wears leather and is feisty

and independent. However, she decides she wants a job. She

offers to be a delivery person for messages. She is hired but

as she takes the leather message pouch and lays it on the

back wheel, the employer insists she cover the spokes with a

hub cap. It annoys her a bit but she complies because she

thinks the job will be fun and she can see the sense of it.

After all, it would not be safe to let the bag get caught up

in the spokes when she s driving. So she takes the pouch with

the papers inside to her destination. When she gets there,

there are forms to fill out and she has lots of difficulty

getting this done (96.05.05)


If this were my dream, I would wonder if it has anything to

do with a wise old woman's difficulty in getting through to

"Fast Wheels"? When I put a "cap" on something, then it's

effectively putting a lid on it. Exposed spokes on a wheel

remind me of the potential astrological demarcations of

houses: by extension, I would think of possible stages/planes

of experience -- greatly simplified: 1) identity; 2) values;

3) communication; 4) heart; 5) creativity; 6) work; 7)

relationship; 8) intimacy; 9) the higher mind & places/people

at a distance; 10) career and/or the way the world sees me;

11) friends & groups: future hopes; 12) confinement, endings,

etc. An old lady wearing leather would emphasize, for me,

paradoxically her youth (because wearing leather) and age

(weathered by experience). What's in her bag? Nothing but

messages? Communications are in the bag and could get caught

up (trapped) in swiftly turning wheel of life. Forms to fill

out suggest yet another way to transmit information.

Whose/what messages are being delivered? Have I looked into

the bag yet to read anything written thus far?

== Commentary on: "Animal Island" (ED3:V3N5) by Island


The Dream:

There are two islands, close to each other, separated by no

more than about half a mile of ocean. I live on one of them,

in the only old farm house standing on it. The other island

only contains stables and is populated exclusively by cattle,

some sheep, some cows, one horse, all of them friendly,

especially the horse. I have to row over in a kind of small

barge to get food, hey and grass and cabbage, to all the

animals, as there is nothing growing on their island. My

first passage in the barge is not difficult, but when I

arrive I discover with unpleasant surprise that it is empty,

I have forgotten to put any of the food into it. I hastily

return and set out for a second crossing. This time the

passage to the neighboring island is more difficult, as I

have lost the oars and have to propel the little barge by my

naked hands. This works fairly well, but a little too slow I

feel, thinking of the waiting hungry animals. When I arrive,

my boat again is empty. I am very disturbed about that and

step out to comfort the cattle by telling them that I will

return for a third time shortly. The horse approaches me

friendly but a little reproachfully, leaning its head against

my shoulder and I stroke it gently. My third return to the

animal island somehow is even more difficult and slow. And

again, upon arrival, I find that the barge is totally empty.

This is completely incomprehensible to me, but I have no time

to be puzzled and disturbed. For this time the animal island

has come to hostile life. It is not the suffering animals,

who become hostile. Their island is suddenly populated by

medieval soldiers, rogues, wild and primitive men, with

weapons, mainly sticks and raw clubs, out to take revenge for

my failing deliveries, definitely with an intention to kill

me. I manage somehow to escape to my own island with my farm

house. But there they catch up with me, are upon me, almost

get me. Then I detect a hole in one of the old clay walls of

the house and swiftly disappear into it, hiding in the hollow

wall. For a moment I experience great relief, as my escape

has remained unnoticed by the wild men, and I hear them

noisily run past the wall in pursuit of me. But then what

seems to have been my rescue from destruction turns into

sheer horror: The inside of the hollow wall, where it is

pitch- dark, seems indeed to consist of a sticky, pitchy

matter, slimy and somehow slowly moving. It turns out to be

the inside of a carnivorous plant which is slowly sucking me

in. I gradually sink down deeper into the narrowing,

clutching hole, certain that I will be devoured and dissolved

by the acid juices beginning to ooze out from it.


If this were my dream, one of the first questions I would ask

myself is if someone, especially myself, is receiving the

proper nourishment? The desire and intention seems to be to

nourish (feed) domestic animals. I would feel that the

transformation from docility to hostility is quite natural

considering that desires and intentions are frustrated,

albeit somewhat terrifying, but then I would remember that

dreams sometimes exaggerate or magnify to drive a message

home. Though I try to hide/run from/avoid/ignore the

situation, I am literally eaten alive, or consumed by the

situation ultimately. I would wonder if the dream might also

point to an internal conflict regarding the nurturing of

myself by myself, my nurturing of others, and/ or my being

nurtured by others. So I would then ask questions of myself:

how do I really feel about the process/act of nurturing? Then

one thing I might do is write a great deal about what

nurturing/being nurtured means to me.


== Commentary on: "The Roof God and Uncle Joe" (ED3:V3N5)

by Island (960625)

The Dream:

I am at the hospital where I work. A God (Demi-God?) and a

woman have a great flying battle across the roof of the

building. Along the line that they travel the roof is tore up

pretty bad. It is raining and subsequently there are leaks

all over in the hospital. I am walking along inside the

building and run into a maintenance worker I know. He asks

about the leaks and I tell him I know nothing even though I

know exactly what happened. He says something, I think, about

a female administrator at the hospital. Now I am at my

parents' old house in Toledo, OH. It seems there is some sort

of family gathering going on. I am seeing people I haven't

seen in years. I am shaking hands and greeting people when I

hear someone say the Uncle Joe is here or is coming here

soon. I ask around because I do not see him anywhere.

Someone, not a family member, takes me outside. I am told to

wait by a car that is parked in the backyard. As I wait I

look up and see the Northern lights. They are very bright and

vivid. I think to myself that they should continue for some

time since the magnetic storm that is causing them must be

very bright. I go back to the car. I am getting sick of

waiting. I get into the passenger seat and start calling out

for Uncle Joe. I sense that he is somewhere in the car, but

is not answering for some reason. I look at the dashboard and

wonder if he is under there somewhere. I think that I either

hear his voice or the voice of the person who brought me out

to the car, but I cannot recall what this voice is saying.


If this were my dream, I would be intrigued by my confusion

as to whether the God on the roof was a God, or half-God. Am

I being reductionist or am I alluding to a half-God/half-man?

Battling with a woman, who might be a female administrator? I

would wonder just who this female administrator is to me and

whether or not I value her... there seems to be an imbalance

somewhere because the deck seems to be stacked against the

woman. As a woman, I wouldn't want to battle either a God, or

demi-God, even though I might hold my own, and put up a great

fight. Because the fight takes place on the roof, I would

wonder if this battle is solely in my mind? I would wonder

why I do not answer the maintenance man's questions about the

leaks. Does he mean to repair the leaks? The magnetic storm

of the next sequence seems to echo the battle on the roof :

perhaps on a higher, different plane. The Northern Lights

will continue to shine for some time. What associations do

the Northern Lights have for me? Could there be a fear of any

kind that something which exists on a higher plane -- the

light(s) -- might be extinguished? Does it require a magnetic

storm for the light(s) to continue? These are some questions

I might ask myself. Just how essential is talking to Uncle

Joe, or opening myself up to what Uncle Joe may symbolize --

perhaps in this instance, an unconventional belief that

involves a metaphysical reality -- to me, it at all? If this

were my dream, to honor it, if at all possible, I would

probably try and reconnect with Uncle Joe. I would share my

dream with him, open myself up to any conversation, and see

if anything Uncle Joe has to say strikes a chord within me,

sparks, stimulates, or otherwise heightens my awareness and

expands my horizons.

== Commentary on: Snake Hater's Dream (ED3:3_5) by Island

(960529) **

The Recurring Dream:

... I am holding a rather large rattlesnake by the neck with

a firm grip of my right hand. I know the colors of the snake

and I can see the colors of my bed spread. What I find odd is

that I am not scared of the snake what-so-ever, that is,

because I am sitting on its tail (its rattles). As I hold the

shake close to its head I remind myself not to get up because

the sound of the rattles would frighten me. Although I don't

want to, I know I have to get up and dispose of the snake

outside...this means I have to get off its rattles and can no

longer sit on them. In my dream, every time I get up to take

it outside, it begins to slip down into the middle of my fist

and bites me on the outside of my hand between my index

finger and thumb. And every time my hand begins to foam and

froth uncontrollably and the snake pokes its teeth in harder

and harder till it turns to a golden powder and spreads on

the floor around my feet. At this point the wound is gone

except for 2 puncture holes where the snake bit me....

The Dream:

The dreamer, a 17-year-old male deathly afraid of snakes,

states that he finds himself sitting on a bed at one of two

homes. If this were my dream, I would ask myself, what are

the colors in the snake? The bedspread? Do they harmonize or

clash? What really is the neck of a snake? I have a hard time

envisioning it. Is it the section just below the mouth and

fangs? Where does the neck begin and end? Is the neck the

snake's center of expression, or is it the tail, where the

rattlers are? The sound of the rattles brings fear. Why? What

else rattles like that? Is the fear of the sound of rattling

that which stops the me from putting the snake outside? When

I think I can no longer sit on it (snake's energy), am I also

saying I am repressing that energy? A closed fist could

suggest anger, or power, but the bite puts the me out of

control. Bite/teeth/repeated action...transforms the snake

into a golden powder circling my feet... numinous. At this

point the wound is gone, though the scar (two puncture holes)

are visible. Could this dream possibly have anything to do

with an internal conflict regarding sexuality?

== Commentary on The Snake Haters Dream by BobC

A Freudian interpretation of the snake symbol is that it is a

phallic symbol, and because of your age, it may be a relevant

association. You are struggling to control your sexual

emotions and behavior relating to them. You do not want to

move away from the bed because the sound of the rattles would

draw attention to your struggle. You realize you have to get

up to "dispose of the snake outside" because ultimately

almost all human beings have to express their sexuality

outside of themselves with another. The snake bites you

because the passage to sexual maturity forever changes people

(ergo, the bite marks are left behind). But the struggle is

left behind also, because at the end of passage to adulthood

sexuality is "golden." It enriches our lives in many ways;

physical pleasure, children, emotional as well as physical

intimacy with another, and as a means of non-verbal

communication. If you disagree with the above interpretation,

then it is wrong. Only the dreamer knows.

Bob C.

'What we do in dreams we also do when we are awake: we invent

and fabricate

the person with whom we associate - and immediately forget we

have done so.'


== Commentary on The Snake Hater s Dream by Fuzz from SkyeT

Comments: What occurs first to me is the idea that it seems

to be the **sound** of the snake that is more frightening to

you. I wonder if this sound reminds you of something else

and you are using the snake rattle as a screen memory for

this other sound.

Also, the idea of the snake evaporating into golden dust

suggests perhaps that this is a very old idea -- one that no

longer has physical substance, but is currently marked only

by the idea of residual puncture wounds. The golden color

suggests that the result of the interaction with the snake

was positive, spiritual even.

Although this idea -- whatever this snake experience

represents -- is frightening to you, it may be a fear of

something very powerfully mystical, rather than a fear of

something that is truly dangerous.

Skye T

"...It has been speculated that of all groups scientists

and engineers might be the most devastated by the discovery

of relatively superior creatures, since these professions

are most clearly associated with the mastery of nature,

rather than with the understanding and expression of man.

Brookings Institute for NASA, 4/18/61

== Commentary on: "The Night of the Biting Zombies "

(ED3:3_5) by Island (960625)

<I was at an amusement park with my parents and my sister. My

sister (nine years old) split off to the child care part. We

were having fun at the time but then we heard a message on

the loudspeaker.

> If this were my dream, these are some of the thoughts

that would arise: Some message is trying to get through loud

and clear: Something I consider "fun" is not really fun at

all... what this amusement leads to is an attempt to kill,

rekill, and kill yet again, with the aid of adults (or adult


<It said that there was a zombie attack on the park (In my

dream when you get bit by a zombie you turn into one).

Certain drugs produce a zombie-like state; I think of heroin,

injected with a needle. I wonder if the dream has anything to

do with recreational drugs? Since I do not use drugs

recreationally, I begin to wonder if I am tapping into what

Jung called the collective unconscious? I try and think of

what springs to mind when I think of a zombie... Walking

dead; someone without a soul; a bloodless corpse; someone

without conscience; amorality...

<Suddenly everybody was scared and panicky.>

Again, if I were using drugs, getting a "rush," then coming

down from a high, or weaning myself off, I would feel scared

and panicky. If I were in the land of zombies and all my

associations that state, I would certainly feel scared and


<I rushed over to the child care part to get my sister. When

I arrived, all the children were zombies and were wandering

around with blood all over them. Then I saw my sister. She

was a zombie too. I was greatly angered and sad by all this.

I knew I had to re-kill the children so they wouldn't kill

anybody else. I snapped everyone's neck slowly while crying

for all the children. I slowly turned the little heads until

I heard a "CRACK". I saw a car with keys in it so I drove it

away until I saw a group of adults. They were creating a trap

for the zombies. I helped them finish and I lured(sp?) them

in. We caught them and killed them one by one.>

Something to do with childhood, children, or my inner child,

whether past, present, future -- or collectively -- is

profoundly affecting me. Or something to do with anything

that drains the lifeforce (perhaps the childlike state of

being: innocence, spontaneity, etc.) from me and/or others.

Perhaps childlike (immature, unformed, or uninformed)

behavior is responsible for my present predicament. I am so

torn, so conflicted, that I weep for what I must do to bring

resolution. If it were my dream, I would wish to be very

clear about what it is that has placed me in such a poignant,

yet gripping double bind. The thing that intrigues me the

most is that whatever it is is so powerful to my mind that

not even death, the great finality, holds sway, for I have

had to kill, rekill, and kill again with the help of adults

(or adult like behavior), which is, to my mind, paradoxical.

Perhaps it would help me if I softened my language a bit, and

whispered to myself, "I must call, recall, and call (out)

again" until the Universe responds, which It always does,


== Commentary on: "An Arrow out of Nowhere" (ED3:V3N5) by

Island (96.06.25)

The Dream:

I'm standing alone on the steps of a building. An arrow out

of nowhere pierces my neck (my throat). I'm bleeding and fall

to the ground. I need help. A friend appears. I tell him I

must get to a hospital. He tells me he doesn't have his car,

but he will help. He gets me to my feet, but I never let go

of my throat. We find ourselves at a busy bus terminal. Yes,

of course I think, the bus will take me to the hospital. But

as we approach each bus, we miss it by seconds and it drives

away. We run for many, but we just keep missing them.

Finally, in exhaustion, my friend says - we will walk, but I

will get you there, As we start to walk, I collapse.


If this were my dream, an arrow piercing the throat suggests,

to me, very targeted, focused -- right on -- expression,

which can sometimes boomerang on me if I express to people

unprepared for, or otherwise not amenable to, what I might

want to say. Have I been struck by divinity, or the Divine

Self within me? Have I disowned Divinity or Divine Self? I

fall to the ground or am otherwise brought low. Do I confuse

my state of awe with illness because bleeding? Or is this a

sign that the life force (blood) streams from me at the

throat? an indication that I must muster courage to self-

express? I recognize I needs help, or aid, so a helper comes.

I believe I must get to a hospital (or obtain a more

hospitable response, or even hospitality). My helper tells

him, "I don't have a car, but I will help you." Is my helper

suggesting, "let's not choose the way of the collective." For

the car (because most people drive through life or to

otherwise get around), the bus "terminal" and the hospital

(also can be a place where life itself ends) suggest a

collective, rather than the individual, response. My friend

gets me to my feet: I am grounded; capable of walking on my

own recognizance. But "we find ourselves" -- seemingly

without having chosen such a direction -- at a busy bus

terminal. Did I and my friend drift in this direction? Does

the bus symbolize group thinking and direction where,

perhaps, there is safety in numbers? Is the hospital an

indicator for me, in this dream, where I have failed to

integrate well with the collective, and do I clutch my throat

-- my own ability to myself as an individual -- despite all?

Perhaps the helper is truly helping in this instance because

over and over I miss the bus, even though it exhausts me to

the point of collapse. The question I have for the dreamer,

when he says, <Yes, of course I think, the bus will take me

to the hospital,> do you really need the bus, and is it the

hospital you really want to go to? Perhaps the dreamer might

think again. Are there places other than bus

terminals/hospitals to walk/drive to that bring about



== Commentary on: The Gnome of Depressive Death (ED3:3_5) by

Island (96.06.25)*

The Dream:

There had been an accident, a simultaneously obvious and

secret accident that had effected the entire world by turning

the entire place into a dusty farmland. The harsh stillness

that followed the man-made catastrophe reminds me of media

portrayals of the world after nuclear holocaust. The United

States politically identified itself and its boundaries as

Australia and New Zealand. (I don't know exactly what those

words of the last sentence mean; they were "given

information" as I became aware of the dream while I was

sleeping. In the dream, lived in a shack with the family that

I was born to. Down wind from where we lived, about a half

mile away, was our barn, which housed horses and cows, each

animal in an isolated stall. CUT TO CHANGE OF BEING I am my

(in real life non-existent) sister and I have just gotten out

of jail. Her friend, Annie, has come to pick her up and to

take her to a small restaurant so that she can learn to cook.

I (through my sister's eyes) notice that the restaurant is

empty; it is dawn, and Annie asks them to show me how to make

jam. This is a Mexican food restaurant, and the girl who

works there and her father tell us to follow them. They take

me outside of their quaint little restaurant, where there is

the gynecological clinic for desert whores I visited in

another dream. Leaning against the wall of the clinic, there

is a bicycle. They take the bicycle and we all get in a car

and ride to lush, morning farmlands. At the top of a hill,

they tell me to ride down the paved hill and they will go

ahead and video tape my ride down. Although they act as

though this is a rite of passage, Understand that I am being

punished and humiliated. In everyone else's mind, after all

of this is done, I will understand how to make jam. To these

people, jam and spirituality and money are directly related

to one another. I push myself from the top of the hill and

quickly reach a speed that excites the life in me but scares

me nearly to fainting. But I know that I don't faint. After

all, this is only a dream, I think to myself. I look ahead

and think of the man and his daughter and think of Annie,

waiting at the car, realize that there are no breaks on this

bike. I am worried that this may not be a dream at all. It

may be real, and I may collide with the pavement. I think to

myself, there will be an up-slanted slope sometime. I just

have to keep riding until then. After many hills and curves,

I reach the upwards-slanted slope that allows me to stop. I

am sweaty, bright red, and numb. CUT TO CHANGE OF BEING (back

to myself) I hear that my sister and her brother (same sister

as in previous scene, brother I haven't seen before) have

gotten out of boarding school. They have herpes, and it has

gone to their brains. They are depressed, mentally

handicapped people who need constant care. The parents are

too much in shock to care for my brother and sister and for

the farm and keep the animals and children locked up for a

while. I realize eventually that my siblings are not being

properly cared for and open the door to their room. My

chubby, mute brother goes and sits down somewhere. My sister

says that she has something to do. She looks very depressed

and is moving slowly. CUT TO CHANGE OF BEING (I'm my sister

again) I walk through the sand and itchy grass to the barn

and climb up the ladder to where there is feed for the

animals. The weather is changing every moment from rainy to

painfully lacking humidity, and the animals seem as though

they are dying. I feel sorry For them. I feed the cows a

poison that won't kill their bodies but will cause their

consciousness to shift out of their bodies. I give the horses

sedatives. I throw grain down into the stalls. A little gnome

comes by and slashes the cows' wide white throats and hangs

them by their necks and suffocates the horses to death. As

the gnome is running around doing these things, I eat mass

quantities of the horse sedative. I see an evil glint in my

eye and feel an evil haze around me before my body fails and

I lay down. CUT TO CHANGE OF BEING (back to myself) I am

doing some carpentry work when I have a strange feeling that

my sister is in the barn, where she has been told not to go.

I am afraid that she has killed the cows. She senses

depression and has killed depressed people and animals in the

past. I run out to the barn. I am running as fast as I can,

but I seem to be going in slow motion. I get to the barn and

see the dead cows. Entropy hangs in the air. I go upstairs

and see my pale sister lying on the rotting wood floor. She

is not dead. I carry her body to the shack where I live. I

did not notice that she was dead until I attempted to give

her some sort of first aid shot and felt how rubbery her

flesh was. I went to look for my brother and the rest of the

family. I saw my dog dead on the floor. I knew that the

parents were in their luxurious, tropical-motif, tacky room.

I knew that they were dead lying straight in their bed. My

brother was dead as well. I wake up.

If this were my dream, this is how I would work with it:

(Catastrophic) Accident brings on holocaust where all turns

to dust.

(Family dynamic): I & family live in shack; each domestic

animal in separate stall)

(Life task/aim): I am taught to make jam in Mexico: first am

driven to lush farmlands

(Video tape) Visual record of life's journey

(Nature/Quality of journey): rite of passage is equivalent to

punishment & humiliation

(lessons to be learned): how to make jam. Dreamer

differentiates between material/spiritual:

teachers relate them.

(State of dreamer AS IMAGINARY SISTER) wide awake, in

control, dreams lucidly as he/she experiences life which

looms (downhill, curves) larger than the dreamer. Even

speculates about the consequences of no brakes (completely

open to experience), and imagines a positive outcome (will

inevitably brake when the hill ascends)

(State of dreamer AS OBSERVER) Dreamer as dreamer believes

sister and brother are brain damaged and improperly cared for

so opens the locked door. Sister and brother are slowly

coming around.

(EVENTS beyond dreamer's control) Erratic, extreme weather

changes (mood swings? Shifts in temperament? Wet to dry?) To

bring under control, dreamer's pity results in separating

spirit from matter through poisoning the cows, and sedating

the horses. The gnome, however, an extremist, hangs the cows

and suffocates the horses.

(State of dreamer AS OBSERVER) Sister cannot bear depression;

everything around dreamer

dies: parents, sister, brother, cows, dog...while the dreamer

is in the process of repairing/building/restoring (doing

carpentry work) & giving first aid (healing)...

If this were my dream, I would also work with the phrase:

-- a luxurious, tropical-motif, tacky room --

juxtaposed with the phrase,

-- dead lying straight in their bed.--

and ask myself if my values are compatible with others. In

this situation, must I disown my values to survive, must I

compromise more than I care to?



== Dream: The Avocado/Magnolia War by Island [83.01.22--

not a misprint]

Dreamed Harvey is outside, showing me the trees he has

planted. He planted two avocado plants -- one on the outside

of a squared in, raised area for other plants, and the other

inside the raised area. I see tiny avocados shooting out and

am impressed. He then shows me a magnolia tree that he has

planted. This tree, however, is sitting next to the avocado

plant. It is much too close.. I am alarmed. I stare at it for

some time and imagine its big, thick roots in the years ahead

strangle and take over the roots of the more sensitive,

avocado plant. But I cannot tell him of his error I see J__

at the top of high stairs entering a house, almost as if in

thin air.

Comment by Island:

Believe it or not, I dreamed this dream more than 13 years

ago where it has sat, unexamined, all that time, among a sea

of some 4,000 other dreams. On April 20th, 1996, J__, Ha__'s

wife, has her first layover in New York City since 1982,

which was the last time we saw each other: 14 years ago. She

was never a close close friend because our friendship was

short lived as my first marriage interrupted a continuation

of that friendship nearly 30 years ago. However, we have

managed to see each other perhaps as many as four or five

times in that 30 year span. So we had much to learn about

each other during this visit, though I had been kept posted

on J__ through a mutual friend sporadically through the


J__ tells me that, in 1990, she, Ha__, and their only son,

Hu__, now age 11, moved into a house in Fort Lauderdale which

they purchased last year. There is a huge avocado tree in her

back yard that spans both hers and her neighbor's yard. It

even has a tree house built inside it. The problem with the

avocado tree is it doesn't bear fruit: just tiny, hard

avocados. Hu__ has been wanting to grow avocados so he can

sell them and even used his money to pay ten dollars for each

spike needed. J__ is very proud of her son's ingenuity and

industry, and it is easy to see that she loves him a great

deal. She has chosen, for example, to educate him herself:

therefore, he has never seen the inside of a public or

private school. As she brings me up to date on the avocado

tree, with no questions from my end whatsoever, I have an

eerie feeling. I suddenly remember a dream I had many years

ago about Ha__ outside a house and greenery of some kind. I

suggest to her we try and locate it on the computer.

After J__ and I read the dream on the computer, I wondered

about the magnolia tree. J__ had not mentioned one. She then

tells me that there are two Norwood pines with the avocado

tree in the back yard; and a large gardenia bush growing for

forty years to about 9 feet high in the front. Gardenia

bushes don't usually live that long and, to her, it looks

like a tree because it's as tall as a house. I've always felt

like gardenias are a magnolia's sibling in look and smell.

She remarks as well the next morning that, to her, gardenias

are very close to magnolia blossoms in appearance and smell.

I noted that J__ wanted not to notice the strange set of

coincidences: something about my showing her the dream was

off-putting to her, or so I imagined. She seemed to want to

minimize, or not make much of it. So we didn't discuss it.

The next morning, she then goes on to add that she wasn't

even meant to have this trip or meeting with me. What

happened was that her son, Hu__, had never seen New York

City. So as a stewardess, she arranged for herself, Ha__ &

Hu__ to fly for a weekend to NYC. When they arrived at the

Ft. Lauderdale airport to take off Friday afternoon, there

was only one seat available. So she decided on the spur of

the moment to take the trip by herself. She remarked that,

had it not worked out that way, we would have never gotten

together (and thus I would have never heard her tell me of

Hu__ desire to grow avocados and thus returned to the dream).

After her departure, I waited to hear from her nearly six

weeks, before moving out of New York City. She was to have

sent me Ha__'s E-Mail address because she and I had

concretized plans of traveling in the future. Yet I have not

heard from her since.

Some personal observations: until April 20th, 1996, I had

always believed avocados to be plants, not trees. Note how I

edit myself when I record the dream: I first write, <trees he

has planted.> I then edit myself, <He planted two avocado

plants>. That is because I had always assumed avocados grew

in groves of some kind, and never in yards.

The question I asked myself then was: why would I have had a

dream 13 years ago whose details would be recounted to me and

bear such similarity to what I was hearing in waking reality

that I would remember the dream's existence among an ocean of

dreams? These events are so ordinary: growing avocados in a

yard, one in a squared in raised area (J__'s treehouse?), J__

disappearing in thin air (as if boarding an airplane ready to

take off)...

In this past month, I have moved to a new area near Pasadena.

The first and only couple we have met are now renting a

house. This weekend, they proudly show us the avocado tree

which grows in their backyard: the only problem is the

avocados are small, and hard. The tree can no longer bear

edible avocado fruits. In the front yard grows a huge

magnolia tree. The couple laugh about a lone mockingbird who

perches in the branches of the tree nightly and sings a

multitude of tunes that makes sleeping difficult...

I recall J__ crying as she recounts to me how she was treated

by her Daddy when she was no more than five. The conversation

was especially poignant because J__ became that five year old

as she remembered those painful memories. Her father told her

repeatedly how ugly she was and shunned her, to the extent

that whenever a family photograph was taken, she would do

anything to edge up next to him, just to be able to be near

him without reprisals. And even then, he would push her away.

She developed such a fear of and hatred for her father that

she desperately did not want a son to be born. And yet, when

he arrived, such an unbelievable bonding took place that she

still has a hard time fathoming how it is possible. Instead

of resolving her relationship with her father, however, she

is even more estranged from him, largely because of his own

actions toward her. Very sad...

I recall the new couple: A__ who talks of the alienation from

her mother that she experienced until most recently, when her

mother was diagnosed with cancer. And the tears that her talk

elicited at the dinner table, because my own painful

experience was being recalled: my mother, too, rarely spoke

unless enraged about something or another, and even those

diatribes made no sense. We both revealed that our mothers

were schizophrenic at one point. It was only in the last

seven or more years that my mother began to relate without so

much of the anger, and disassociation from reality, as she

had in earlier years: yet just before she was diagnosed with

cancer. I could not help but be so grateful for the time I

had with my mother to really get to know her, just as the

woman sitting opposite me. I couldn't help but marvel at the

fact that she never recorded her dreams, or spoke of them,

except briefly a few years before she died. During her period

of opening up, she had also begun to record her dreams as

well. I have often wondered if that one act contributed to

her transformation in personality.

I recall the huge magnolia tree that grew in our front yard,

when I was a child of three. I loved that tree passionately.

I used to climb to the top of it because it had great,

sprawling limbs, and gorgeous blossoms that exuded the most

wonderful odor. The leaves were so slick, so bright dark

green. Their backsides were furry brown, and I could scrape

the fur off. One time when I was very small, I remember

tearing one of its leaves apart, just to understand how that

leaf could be. When I saw I couldn't put it together again, I

vowed then never to tear anything up just to understand it.

I recalled, though I've never forgotten, or repressed, the

event, one day I climbed to the top of the magnolia tree.

Daddy came home. He called from the window, "Are you up in

that tree?" --"No," I said, "I'm not up in the tree" because

I knew he would disapprove. I got the switching of my life

with a limb I had to get myself from a bush... because I had

lied to him. Though I understood my need to be corrected, I

never quite understood why so severe a method? Yet I am so

thankful now that through the years, he has mellowed and

become such a kinder, more humane and generous man as he

relates to me, and that we have had the opportunity to repair

together much of the earlier damage. These are my private

associations, but I am too close to the dream to grasp the

meaning, or the warning, behind: <I am alarmed. I stare at it

(magnolia tree) for some time and imagine its big, thick

roots in the years ahead strangle and take over the roots of

the more sensitive, avocado plant.> The dream is numinous for

me now, largely because those past roots have grown

underground and appear in the present...

I received the following comment from mb on April 22nd (who

did not have the benefit of my comments and associations


There seems to me nothing so strange about that dream. As I

experience from my own dreams, time or space does not exist

in dreams. I can just as well have glimpses of the future as

I have glimpses of the past. It would have helped if you had

posted the dream as it was, without your own commentaries on

it (I have taken the suggestion to heart and revised my

posting--Island). Since the dream only *uses* precognitive

elements in order to create its imagery and meaning, the real

meaning of the dream, I believe, is not concerned with the

future as such, but with the meaning of it for the right here

and now.

[Here the dream is repeated without my original comments]

As you see, I have taken out your interruptions of the dream.

Looking at it this way, it may very well symbolize your

concern with the marital relationship, yours or someone

elses, in which two people who have different "fruits", i.e.

interests and needs, are too close may intertwine smother

each other. The big, thick roots are obviously a concern

here. Does one of you have *roots* in one place, roots which

may threaten the happiness and productivity of the other?

Since this dream took place many years ago, maybe what the

concern symbolized in this dream existed at that time, but

now no longer. Let us know what your reflections are.


My reflections are, first of all, thank you very much for

your very interesting and perceptive insights. Though time or

space doesn't exist in dreams, and although my experience of

dreaming confirms your own, that we can have glimpses of both

the future and the past in dreams, my deep surprise was the

event itself (J__'s unexpected arrival and her sharing with

me what is presently going on her life) recalled similar

events taking place in a dream of 13 years ago: not

extraordinary events, but mundane, day to day living events.

That was a great indicator to me that I really needed to take

a look at the warning embedded in the dream which I believed

to have significance in the now. But what? J__'s visit was

April 20th. My mother had already died March 20th; we were

already aware that we were moving to the West Coast. The

dream is telling me something important I do not know, but

need to know, but what? Considering the fact that my husband

is a native New Yorker, your insight, <Does one of you have

*roots* in one place, roots which may threaten the happiness

and productivity of the other?> is especially astute. I don't

think he was all that happy about relocating, but everything

seems to be OK.

I feel that the dream may point more to alienation between

child and parent because of the conversations that took place

among people, not just J__ and H__, who have avocados and

gardenias growing in their yard, but A__ and her husband who

we have just met who also have avocados and magnolias growing

in their yard. Also Ha__ in the dream actually translates to

Hu__, his son, in reality, who is attempting presently to

revitalize a tree past its prime. Too, alienation between

child and parent, I feel, usually transfers to alienation

between husbands and wives, siblings, friends. Because the

magnolia roots (not edible) strangles the avocado (edible), I

feel that the dream may also suggest a conflict between

nurturing on a physical level and nurturing the soul (the

beauty and smell of the magnolia flower). Oddly, in reality,

I probably place more importance on the latter, not the

former, believing that, without nurturing the soul, the

physical body will be unable to be nurtured, no matter what

one eats, as it were. Yet the dream may also be offering me

assurance that all unfolds at the right place and at the

right time. Sometimes I am overwhelmed when I get a tiny

glimpse of the intricate, yet perfect, dance the Universe

dances, no matter what I think or perceive or believe might

be happening. Maybe I myself am too rooted in the past, worry

too much about what has already happened, its effects,

influences, so that I do not allow myself to truly experience

the Now. I just haven't been able to reach the Aha! Of the

dream. Back in 1990, I had a similar experience with a dream

which seemed so numinous to me at the time, and I knew it

contained a great insight, but I just couldn't seemed to

grasp I went around for several days, asking myself

repeatedly, "What could it possibly mean?" Then my brother

was actually murdered. Only then did the dream become

transparent. I suppose that experience primed me to brace

myself when I experience something similar, and this dream is

similarly numinous for me. Maybe one of these days the dream

will be transparent. Until then, I can truly appreciate the

insights that come, the perspectives, such as yours, that are

offered, and say as well, "Where is he who knows? From the

great deep to the great deep he goes" (Alfred Lord Tennyson,

Idylls of the King).


== A Final Comment on "ShadowBox" by Island

Events themselves seemed to bring closure to the dream, "The

Shadow Box", dreamed February 2nd, then brought to the

attention of a DreamWheel where comments were reproduced in

Electric Dreams 3:4.

February 2, 1996, when I dreamed the dream, my mother, though

ill for seven years with cancer, was alive and responding

well to treatment. My husband, a part of extensive layoffs

with the aerospace industry, remained unemployed a year and a

half later with no job on the horizon. He at that time had

just departed for California to visit his brother, discussing

the possibility of a business partnership. By chance, he

attended a conference where a man was posting job listings on

a bulletin board. This man, a former New Yorker, remembered

my husband from years ago. From this chance meeting, Rob went

on a rare job interview, a week or so after my dream.

It is now June 10th, four months and a week following the

dream. The events that have taken place since the dream are:

1) My mother died March 20th from multiple myeloma (cancer of

the plasma). Monica's father died of lung cancer just a few

years ago. I did not for some reason immediately associate

the fact that Monica is the only close friend I have whose

parent died following a diagnosis of cancer. If I had, I

might have been more prepared when my own mother died. As it

happened, she died just hours before I had boarded Amtrak to

see her.

2) By March 27th, Rob learned that we would be relocating to

Pasadena, CA, because he was hired by Jet Propulsion Labs,

the leader in robotics outer space exploration. At that time

he had lived nearly a half a century in New York City; I had

lived in the same apartment in New York City for two decades.

In retrospect, I see now that the dream foreshadows some

connection with planetary observation (e.g., the planets in

the shadowbox).

3) By April 13th, he was called unexpectedly to leave NYC to

attend a conference in San Antonio, TX (the place alluded to

in one of my comments), his first visit to that town and

state. Monica presently lives in Texas, where the dream

seemed to unfold. The conference was held on The New

Mellenium Program, whose "fundamental objective is to begin

to establish a virtual human presence in space, enabling

people to explore the near-Earth environment, the far edges

of the solar system, and space beyond." (Interestingly, I

have always likened dreaming and interest in dreams to inner

space exploration... what is outside, e.g., the universe, is

mirrored within... as vast as the universe is vast, so too

are our dreaming selves...)

4) On May 31st, Rob's grandmother, whom he was very close to

and had been primarily responsible for her care for several

years died as well.

5) By June 7th, we had both relocated to Pasadena.

6) On June 8th, I attended an open house (primarily outdoors)

sponsored by JPL where a movie (a shadowbox?) I watched

showed the planets one by one coming into view, from inner to

outer (excepting Pluto, which remains unexplored by

robotics), a striking parallel to the dream. To repeat again

someone's question and my response: <What else can you see

[inside the shadowbox] with one quick glimpse, or two? I

would like to say planets slowly, elegantly assuming their

positions, each in turn, against a backdrop of an infinity of


Speaking of an infinity of stars, during the open house

session, a man explained how scientists arrived at the figure

of perhaps one hundred billion galaxies comprising the known

universe. If I don't become as a seven-year-old child in the

face of that awesome, unfathomable reality, there's no hope

for me!

The three months following the dream could be characterized

as a period of both great loss and great transition; with a

thorough review of our lifetimes as we both sifted through

everything we possessed (our storehouse of memories) to ready

for the move across country. Then once moved, feeling very

much like a child and going through renewal...

I remind myself, Is not a dream truly a revelation?





** "Thesis Topic" by JK

Living in a suburb uncomfortably close to Marietta, where

everyone has those terrible giant rabbits to ride on--they

give me the creeps, and they've been linked with cancer. I

see Burt on TV saying he doesn't see anything wrong with

them. I get over that way somehow on foot, to visit family

friends--they don't keep rabbits, but aren't scared of them

like I am. I stop at an acquaintance's house to borrow her

shower, find no-one home, and shower anyway. Her parents

arrive as I am leaving--I introduce myself, but they clearly

are suspicious of me. They ask how I am to get home with no

rabbit. Fortunately, they live on a cliff, and I see out

their back door one of the commuter-sized

pedal-gliders passing. I leap for an empty cubicle--close

call. But there are

more dangerous ways to travel, so I don't fret. At home, I

find that I have an edifice that I must have ordered from a

poster, or perhaps it's alive. It is several stories tall,

and is a convoluted hollow tube with two phallic ends near

the ground, painted lurid red. I am apparently throwing a

penis-party. But on

venturing in, one finds one has to ride through the whole

thing. A large group, with me, gets stuck near the top for

quite a while. It's crowded, people complain. When we

finally shoot down the tubes to the bottom, I vow to paint

it purple and close it to the public. Perhaps it is the topic

of a thesis.

== Commentary by Wise Crone on Thesis Topic

This dream seems to me all about fertility and birth control.

The dreamer is afraid of getting pregnant or of getting

someone pregnant. The rabbits, the hollow tubes, the penis-

party all seem to imply that the dreamer is concerned with

fertility and how not to become pregnant.

** Tim, the crackhead by JesseL (960627)

I see Tim form out of nothingness. He's driving a pick up

smoking some crack and somehow holding a bottle of liquid

cocaine. Somehow, he finally convinces me to take the liquid

cocaine sending me into a euphoria of ecstasy but in sight,

it seems as if cars are just going through us, we're flying,

and other such things. Then it occurs to me, it would be

much safer if I drove because I wasn't as messed up. When I

told him, under the bridge heading toward Pepperell on 119,

he saw that I was right so he pulled over to the side so we

could trade seats.

== Notes by Dreamer:

Notes: A little over a year ago, Tim and I were into drugs,

mainly just marijuana. Over the last year or so, through

many life changing experiences and thought processes, I've

become straight edge. He's still into drugs. A common

friend of ours told me that Tim wanted to try crack once to

just see what it was like. I'm 18 and Tim is 17. We've

grown apart in such a way that he's been telling common

friends of ours that he doesn't like me as a person, anymore.

He liked the me who liked drugs more than he liked the

straight edge me. He's a very close friend that I want to

get back to the same level we once were. Also, I'm very

concerned about his drug and sex habits.

== Commentary by Wise Crone on Tim, the crackhead by JesseL

This dream seems to tell the dreamer that he must take the

driver seat in the relationship, rather than be influenced by

the friend who uses crack.

** Dream: 'A Struggle' by Penfold - 28th December 1995

I was going down a hill on rollerskates, and I skated through

what seemed to be a park, and I went into a house. Inside

the house the tables were stacked along the walls. No-one

seemed to be around, until suddenly a lot of Asian people

surrounded me. They asked me what I was doing here and I

said looking for my dad. Almost immediately my dad appeared,

I said something that I couldn't remember. I went out of the

room and into another where a party seemed to be going on.

I saw an argument between Angel and Gary, and they both

stormed out, for some reason, I decided to try and get Angel

for myself. I tried to pull open the door but I encountered

some difficulty as Gary is pulling the other side. After a

short struggle, he lets go and comes inside, and I go outside

with Angel.

Note: Angel and Gary are characters in a children's tv

program in the UK, called Byker Grove. In the show they are

soon to be married.

** Dream: The Global Experience by Nutcracker (960608)

I am standing inside a giant white ball. There is nothing in

the ball; just me. The inside of the ball is textured;

possibly with subliminal messages. As I stand motionless in

the center of the ball, it revolves around me

counterclockwise. (6/8/96) #366

** Dream: Star Wars 96-06-27 03 by JesseL (960627)

Next thing I know (continued from a previous dream),

I'm on some Star Wars ship. For some reason, I take an

escape hatch or something onto a ship we were somehow

attached to. On a side note, the princess was kidnaped by

our enemies. She looked like Miranda J but with red hair.

Running around their ship, I find her, grab her, then run

back onto our ship after running through their ship a bit.

Once back on our ship again, we're in this card playing

lounge or something. We hang out a bit as she tells me how

thankful she is then her father shows up. Everyone

congratulates me then they leave. There are many encounters

with the princess, that I can't remember, where I try to

communicate with her but she ignores me. I can remember,

after that, being in the king's throne room when I hear some

noise behind me. Turning around, I see her in this weird

black get up sing with some guy.

== Notes by Dreamer

Notes: My current girlfriend is Miranda M but I had a thing

for this Miranda J girl beforehand. J's hair is white blonde

while M's hair is strawberry blonde. I'm deeply in love with

Mrs. M but yet I still feel an attraction toward Mrs. J.

** "Bank Problem" by RE (960627 by JR)

I was flying through Paris and had left myself just enough

time between planes to settle a certain bank account


As I approached De Gaulle, however, I was no longer flying,

but rather skateboarding very fast down a wide, deserted

street. When I skated into De Gaulle, it was no longer an

airport but rather a zoo.

I lost the skateboard & walked through the zoo. Animals

started coming up to me & trying to grab food out of my

hands & out of my backpack. At first it was all fun & games.

I knew I wasn't supposed to, but I was feeding the animals &

began to play with a koala, swinging him around in circles by

his paws.

But then the animals started to scratch & grab for the food.

Somehow a baby tiny gorilla got caught in my backpack,

scratching away all the while. I tried to pull him out

gently, with a little help from the parent tiny gorilla, but

when we finally got the baby out, his leg was hurt. The

parent tiny gorilla scolded me for playing with the animals

& giving them food. I knew he/she was right & I felt very


So I got back on my skateboard & hurried to a nearby phone

(pointed out to me by the parent tiny gorilla). I called 911

but they informed me that they did not handle animal

emergencies. I called around to get the zoo emergency #, but

no one could help me. Feeling very guilty about the plight of

the tiny gorillas, I got back on my skateboard & hurried to

take care of my bank problem.

** "The Free Gift" by GD (960627 by JR)

i was out shopping for hair gel b/c i was in some sort of

play and had to be able to get my hair out of my face--sorta

sticking up straight from my head, but it couldn't look

stiff--it had to look natural. and i went to this hair gel

store thing. it was huge-- all white inside with this big

circular counter where the registers were. and the sales

person told me they had just the thing and brought me this

big bottle of yellowish liquid. i told him i'd take it and

he said they were running a special and everyone who bought

something got a free gift. so he took me to the back part of

the store where there was this tank like thing--all metal and

circular with knobs and gadgets coming off it. it was also

like 10ft off the ground. and he climbed a ladder and dunked

a dixie cup in and came back down with it and handed it to

me. in it was about 3 in of water and these eel things.

they were only a couple of cms each and had ugly faces and

sharp teeth. and i didn't know what to do with this, but i

took it. then i went to the register to pay and he put my

"gel' into like 4 paper bags and i kept telling him that i

didn't need a bag and then he got all upset and stormed off.

another sales person came to help but told me i was getting

the wrong thing. she then dragged me all over the store

looking for the right thing which we never found. but for my

trouble i was entitled to another special gift. since i

already had these evil eels (which i still wasn't sure what

to do with) i tried to decline, but she insisted. she left me

at the register and came back a couple of secs later with

this lizard. i'm not sure how i knew it was a lizard, but i

did--it was totally smooth and kinda shiny white with black

spots (holstein cow like spots) and it was shaped like, and

she was carrying it like it was a koala bear--same face and

body and feet shape except it wasn't fuzzy and it had a long

sharp tail. it was also pretty big. i remember thinking that

it was way bigger than max (my cat). and how were they going

to get along? she put this lizard in what looked like a

cross between max's little cat carrier and a mouse/gerbil

cage--clear plastic, little water bottle etc. and it was

pretty scrunched. and she handed me that and the original

bottle of yellow liquid. and i was trying to juggle that and

the eels. but i was thinking that maybe i could deal with

the eels by feeding them to the lizard...but i got into my

car and was somehow holding all this stuff on my lap. and it

was really snowy and icy out and driving was more like skiing

than driving--going back and forth across the road to slow

myself down. and then i was going down this steep hill and

at the bottom was this search party and so to slow myself

down so i wouldn't hit them, i turned the car sideways. and

i stopped at the bottom and there was this cop buried up to

her shoulders in snow and ice and she was searching. somehow

I'd gotten the impression that some child was stuck in the

snow. and i asked the cop wasn't she cold and she said no,

it was all part of her job or duty or whatever. and then

this little girl, who was eating a candy bar--a charleston

chew, i think, one of the long ones--came over and told the

cop to look to the left. apparently she had lost her doll.

and so i started to drive home and i still hadn't figured

out what to do with the eels or the lizard.

** Voyage to Jupiter by MarkL (960720)

Some men had been sent to Jupiter from Earth in a large

spacecraft. We lost contact with them. I was sent somehow

to the planet where they had been going. I saw the huge

planet as I was travelling through space, the planet was

Jupiter. My next memory is that I opened my eyes and I was

lying on the surface of the planet. I looked at my

surroundings. The surface of the planet was mainly flat but

rocky with some large rocky outcrops with caves in them. The

ground was quite soft in the non rocky places such as where I

was lying. There were lots of plants all over the place, I

had never seen any like them before. They were alien in

appearance and strangely colored. Even the atmosphere was odd

as it had a yellow colouration, a kind of sulphur mist. It

was very quiet there and there was no wind at all, best

described as spooky. There was an alien creature there, it

was like a small beetle and I knew somehow that it could kill

me. It came towards me but I couldn't move properly and just

couldn't get up. As I hit the ground I noticed that the

alien went to where the sound was coming from so I realized

that it moved using sound as a guide. I kept hitting the

ground away from me with my hand until I eventually got up.

There were two men on the planet, one was in a cave where

there spacecraft had ended up somehow, it was partly embedded

in the bedrock. He helped me prepare for rescue to Earth as

I was also stranded now. The other man came along but he had

a gun and stopped us from working (he'd gone mad I think.)

The man helping me grabbed the man with gun and they

struggled. I leapt at the man with the gun and joined in the

struggle. The good man was pushed out of the way so it was

just me and the gunman struggling. The gun twisted to point

as the gunman and I struggled to pull the trigger but I just

couldn't. We fell sideways and I fired several shots with the

gun. The bullets hit the gunman in the chest and he fell to

the ground dead. Me and the good man now knew that we were

safe and waited to be rescued. I woke up at this point I


_______________ Mark L "We are such stuff

as dreams are made of..."

- The Tempest

** Dream: Aliens, The Good, The Bad, and the Ugly by Island


Dreamed while sick and taking an afternoon nap: I'm in a

huge space ship already launched into space with others. The

ship is dark and antiquated, or I cannot see much of the

ship. I have become involved with a man who is to be launched

into outer space, and I'm to press the button at countdown.

There is a great flurry of activity: I have not been prepped

at all. There are many assumptions, and I'm trying at the

very last moment to clarify all details so the launching will

be a success. I find the button I push: it's a round button

on the inside of the right arm of the seat, much like the

button on an airplane that lowers the seat. Further, I'm to

be able to hear the astronaut, and I look for the hearing

device that attaches itself by a thin cord to my left ear,

just sitting inside it. The countdown comes: I'm not too

satisfied that everything is in order and I keep trying to

communicate this to others, but at last it comes anyway.

Funny, but I don't hear, "Blast off" -- which is when I'm to

push the button, there is so much of a hubbub, so I say, "Is

this it? Blast off?" -- and push the button anyway. To my

surprise, it takes all the effort and energy I can muster to

push the button. It's as if the button is as heavy as the

vessel to be launched. So I use a fistlike motion and my

entire body pushing against it, and the vessel is launched

successfully. I sense, more than see visibly, the lift off.

And I strain to hear communication from the astronaut, which

is not forthcoming. Later I am told he volunteered for this

mission because he was dying, and he would not return to the

main ship. I tried to imagine what it must be like for him to

be floating in space, alone, and knowing he would never be

with humans again, then dying. I believed him heroic. A call

comes through on a phone. I answer, and a voice coming from a

distance very far away asks, "Who are you and what do you

want?" I ask, "To whom am I speaking?" -- but get no reply.

But suddenly I realize I am speaking with another being not

human. I say, "We are from the planet Earth, and we mean no

harm." I added the latter because the voice, though strained,

sounded challenging and on guard. Nothing more came, and the

caller hung up. In a great rush, I went to one of my

companions, a female, and told her what had happened. If I

had only recorded the conversation. There was even a built in

recorder where I sat, but I didn't know it. So I had her to

explain the instruments so should such a call come through

again, I could at least record it. I said to her, excitedly,

"Do you know what this means? This has answered the age old

question once and for all. There is intelligent life on other

planets." At the same time I wonder, "how did this life know

how to speak to me in my language? I also wondered where this

life was housed, since all exploration had not turned up

signs of life anywhere among the planets explored. It was

very interesting to me that the call came soon after the

launching of my friend who would not return. It was as if my

friend had been spotted somehow. Then strange things began to

happen: one woman on the ship was confronted by an alien and

cannibalized. But no one saw it. I intuited the event somehow

as it happened, and the alien was dressed like a human, but

behind her mask was the alien. Gruesome, delighting in the

cannibalization. Much later events, after the ship had

returned to earth. Some of the children aboard the vessel

disappeared one by one. There was a scene in a bathroom where

two children were about to enter, and only one made it, but

peering through the keyhole, she saw an alien abduct her

friend. Terrified, she tried to latch the door, but was not

tall enough. Plus the latch was broken. I was there, and

tried to latch it for her. When that didn't work, I held the

door closed by force. There was another scene where a family

went for a drive one night, leaving a child behind in the

neighborhood, and she, too, would disappear unusually. It was

as if anyone aboard the spaceship I had first dreamed of

would disappear in time, beginning with the children first.

Somehow I knew I would disappear as well, but as this was

something I had no control over, I did not react to that


** Dream Excerpt: "Feeling (Not Drawing Down) the Moon" by

Island (96.06.15)

Jane has a great idea of honoring an astronaut who appeared

in a Scientific American article as much as a decade ago. He

may have actually done a solo stint, and not much was made of

it, when he should have received accolades. So she thumbs

through the article spread out on a huge bed, I believe, and

notices there are a chart of symbols without referents. So my

task will be to call Scientific American and see if we can

obtain the referents before we give the speech. Jane keeps

glossing over the details, which I need, and I become quite

rattled in the process. Though I keep mentioning my needs, I

am ignored, until I reach the boiling point, and scream,

"You're the fucking boss!" -- taking both her and her mother

by surprise. It's as if Jane undermines every effort I make

to salvage a number here, a name there, until all I have is

the name of the lead writer. Then I am on site of Scientific

American with the one detail Jane allows me to have: the

writer's name. Fortunately, she is well known, having written

many articles through the years. I am well received, and the

lady assures me she will be able to provide the chart of

referents within two weeks, though I need it sooner. There

are several levels to the place, and Bill Moyers was with his

crew, setting up equipment for a broadcast. He winks and

smiles at me with familiarity. I'm embarrassed and continue

to make my descent on curving rail stairs. Then there is some

quick flash at some point in the dream where I am on the

surface of the moon, when this lone astronaut landed years

ago. I am spreading my fingers through the moon's -- if it is

indeed the moon and not a planet's -- surface as if the

surface is composed of sand on a beach -- and am struck with

its whiteness, actually almost luminescence, and in stark

contrast to the black universe surrounding this curving white

sea because I also see the roundness of the moon. It fills me

with delirium, as if something very pure sifts through my

hands and fingers, although it is curiously composed of very

tiny black dots that are beaded throughout like inroads.

** "No Trespassing" by DR (960627 by JR)

Kathy, Rachel, and I decided to go camping. We began hiking

over dry grassy hillsides. For most of our hike, we walked

adjacent to a fence which separated public land from private

land. Although we were doing fine hiking along public

trails, we noticed how much nicer the private land looked.

We hopped the fence (which was covered with "No Trespassing"

signs) and decided to try our luck on private property.

After awhile, we decided to stop for the night. We set up

camp under this big fir tree, under which we lit a fire.

Rachel informed us that, when pine cones are heated above 300

degrees, they taste like marshmallows. She was right.

After what seemed like less than 30 minutes, it was morning.

As the sun rose above the trees, we heard rustling in the

distance. Then we heard voices. Even though none of us

could quite make out what the voices were saying, we knew

that it must be the owners of the land.

"You two better go check it out," I said. "I'll stay here

and guard our stuff."

I knew full well that Kathy and Rachel would get caught. If

the owners spot Kathy and Rachel first, I reasoned, maybe

they would forget about me and I could run away. It was a

devious plan.

Kathy and Rachel walked about a quarter mile away from the

tree. The owners soon spotted them, and immediately placed

them under citizen's arrest for the crime of trespassing.

Meanwhile, I hid behind the fir tree. Kathy and Rachel were

soon whisked away in one of those "land-rover" jeeps. After

everyone left the scene, I ran back over the public-private

fence, and headed into downtown Santa Cruz to find a burrito.

** "Alien Taste Test" by BR (960627 by JR)

I dreamed that I was walking through a field at daytime, with

a friend. As I kept walking, I noticed there was an alien

craft near me. It was saucer-shaped, but something was

terribly wrong. The top of the spacecraft had been removed,

and only the bottom portion of the craft remained. Piled

throughout the craft there were hundreds of flattened "greys"

alien carcasses. Their skin somehow turned transparent and

yellow. I picked up an alien and bit into its rubbery arm. IT




** Demon Attack by Wren The Valiant 96-07-15

I'm watching two men (one is Cheech...I was watching

Nash Bridges before going to sleep...) fighting

hallucinations which slowly become more real and exert more

influence over them, which I identify as being based on

villains from primitive hardwired(direct mind-link as

Cyberpunk) virtual reality games from their youth. At one

point, a hallucination exerts physical control over objects,

and is no longer a hallucination, but something which

terrifies them even more, and throws something at them.

This whole time I have been disembodied, but after this

occurrence, I experience a false awakening, in which I find

myself in my bedroom, but I am not entirely separated from

the previous dream, as a intuitively realize that the

disembodied presence which had been chasing the two men is

now approaching me. I experience the first stirrings of fear

within the dream something which has not happened to me in

over 5 years! I perceive this disembodied presence as

being a ghost or spirit of malevolent intent, and believing

that I am awake(I haven't identified this as a false

awakening yet), I feel afraid and helpless.

Not understanding this fear, but in its thrall, I know

the being has almost reached me. In desperation, I fall back

upon my Christian upbringing and pray "Lord god in heaven,

save me from my fear and keep it from me...", but this only

slightly calms me. I sense even more hostility from the

presence, and it begins to feel "oppressive". I know I must

do something, and address it directly... "Spirit of fear, I

banish you!"

At this point, its rage washes over me, and I realize I

have no authority over it. I realize then that it is a

dream, but for the first time that I can remember, this

realization brings neither waking, nor control of any kind!

I cannot even move... the hostility and oppression have

grown to even greater proportions. Desperately, I try to

awaken, something I have been able to do intuitively from

early childhood. No effect. I try to scream, hoping to wake

myself, or bring someone else to wake me that I can escape.

Even in the dream my vocal chords won't work and there is

only the rushing of air. Finally, as the oppressiveness

reaches a new height, I desperately attempt to move my waking

muscles, and finally after an effort of will the like of

which I have never needed to exert in a dream, I manage to

move one shoulder blade slightly, but having succeeded in

affecting my waking body, I am now thrust full into control

of it, and I wake up for real, still feeling the hatred of

the dream, which soon fades.

PS. I have not have a nightmare since I was seven years old

which I have not recognized almost immediately as a

dream, dispelled, and continued to sleep peacefully.(That's

nine years for me.)

-Wren the


== Commentary on Wren s Demon Attack by Cliff

That was a very intense dream. What it sounds like you

explained was closer to an out of body experience connected

to the dream. What people don't realize is that the dream

state is a very active reality. We can project our feelings

into this environment and they can take a pretty powerful

form. I would ask myself, "what am I feeling today that I

haven't felt since I was younger". Is there something going

on in your life presently. Think about it. You are

projecting it into your dream state.

If you find yourself in that kind of a dream again, remind

yourself that you are in control of the situation you

encounter. Instead of being fearful of the "demon" in your

dream, ask the being in your dream what he/she represents.

They may just tell you and then leave.

The dream state is a very powerful reality which we don't

take as seriously as we should. We usually see our dreams as

meaningless mumble jumble. But because we have been taught

to believe this way, our interpretation of our dreams turn

into a collage of mumble jumble. When we start realizing

that our dream state is as real as our awake physical state,

then we will learn to manipulate within it. There is a lot

to learn from our dreams. So think about it. What has

caused you to have a dream like this after so long, and if

you have something like it again, ask what it represents to

you and do not fear it.

Good luck

** "The World Had All Agreed" by LM (960627 by JR)

I'm up at the university (UVic if ya care) and there's an

elaborate war game going on. There are dozens of teams.

I've been put on a team with a group of other women, which I

think is cool. We're talking about how we should wrap our

arms in duct tape so that we can tell who's on our team. It

occurs to me that this might make us somewhat suspicious.

I'm unhappy with this situation because I don't really like

war games-- they make me feel very tense + jumpy. Not


Then I have this great idea-- we won't be a warring team--

we'll be peace activists. So we make these peace protest

signs and walk out into the middle of the war game, and are

promptly all shot.

I go back to the "revival tent", where you can get another

life, and all my team get ready and leave, so I go out alone.

I go and stand in front of a group that is about to charge

another team, and they all stop!

Then this older guy jumps at me and tries to deface my sign,

and as we are wrestling we have an argument about alternative

food sources.


** Dream: The Crying Angel by Nutcracker (960712)

As rain falls lightly, I see before me the solemn face of an

angel. It is a face carved in stone. The face tops a column

on the facade of a building, perhaps somewhere in Europe.

Rain drops collect in her eyes like tears. Now I see the

angel as full bodied . She stands solitary in a garden or

park. The grass, green all around her. It is the same face

as the other; eyes closed and head down, almost as though

paying for our sins. Suddenly her eyes open. She puts her

arms out to her sides, palms up and lifts her eyes toward

heaven as if redeemed. Will they take this one from us too,

I wonder? Perhaps all of us here on earth are angels.

Angels without wings - as cold as stone. (7/12/96) #427


-in the workplace

** Making out in the back room by JesseL (960627)

I'm at the General Store where I worked. Gary(a supervisor

for a past job), for some reason, is working there but I

think it has something to do with his broken leg. So,

anyway, the day is slow so I go into the back room to do

something. I find Miranda back there. We talk then end up

making out. One of the girls comes in catching us but she

says that it's all right. I go out anyway to work when Bill

and Dan (other supervisors from the other job) come walking


== Notes by the Dreamer:

Notes: Miranda, my girlfriend, and I have been very physical

lately. She is very comfortable and expressive about this

but it all seems to fast for me and I'm scared that we might

cross a point that wouldn't be good to cross at this time

because of our young age, not being prepared for

consequences, and it would go against my spiritual beliefs

and values. The past job those guys were supervising me on

was at UPS. During work at the General Store, I worked at

Dunkin Donuts.


** Lucid Dream that I shared with my friend (960719)

I oriqinally posted this in alt.dreams but I figured Id

send it over to U after readinq RCWilks posts have a qood


I once was hanqin out with my friend and a couple other

people.. and I remebered EXACTLY the day to the

pinpoint/finest detail. started to tell him that I had a

dream where he told me about this day BEFORE it happened..and

he usually explains thinqs in exctreme detail as I doso U can

actually feel as tho U were there.. BUT he said he also

dreamt it as a realistic dream but not as the story teller...

we started sayin what would happen next (stuff that was

beyond our control)(IE sayin Next I qet up and qo to the

bathroom isn t really makin a prediction)and we were both

callinq them riqht every time..

what I think was the explanation is he saw this day/nite(was

about 16 hours)in a dream and he wanted to tewll me But in

qreat detail and if he told me while we were awake I d qet

bored of hearinq it.So I think he came into my dream to tell

me.. we have tried since(about a year)and haven t been able

to replicate it at all. except we do both have a few dreams

which see into a future(IE items we have in our dreams but

upon awakeninq we don t see them but a few weeks later havin

them..items not bout because we saw them in our dreams but

items that found their way to us)Those dreams are much more


Just thouqht Id share


-Thanks Jason

Hasta La Vista Amigos - BK





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