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Volume 3 Issue #7

21 AUGUST 1996

ISSN# 1089 4284


Electric Dreams - on the World Wide Web


-- Send Dreams and Comments on Dreams to:

Bob Krumhansl <>

-- Send Dream Questions and Concerns to

Victoria Quinton <>

--Send Dreaming News and Calendar Events to:

Peggy Coats <>

-- Send Requests for Dream Groups to:

Chris Hicks <>

--Send Articles and Subscription concerns to:

Richard Wilkerson: <>

--For back issues, editors addresses

and other access see



Download a GREAT COVER for Electric Dreams 3(7)! Jesse


(cover may be delayed a day or two)



Editors Notes

Question Airing Forum

+ Dangerous but Accessable Dream Groups - VQ

Bobk s Website Pick of the Month

Reminder on Nutcracker s Website

Poem: lucrative sublimation in your dreams

- by Daniel Carter

Interview : John Suler on Children's Dreams

by Victoria Quinton

Article: Theories of Dreams - By Scott Hughes

Poem: A Rose for Martina at the '96 ASD Conference

by Charles N. Eudy, MFCT, Ph. D.

Article: Safety in Dreamwork- Dennis Schmidt

Article: Dangerous Liassions - Sky Turell

Article: DREAM WHEEL UPDATE: Safe and Dangerous Dream

Sharing by Christopher Hicks

Article: Conducting Dream Research on the Net:

A Quick Start for Beginners - by Richard Wilkerson


GLOBAL DREAMING NEWS - See GD Index - Peggy Coats

+ Special section on Research





Editor's Notes - Bob K

Dream Index to Issue 3(7)

Previous Issue Dreams

1st Dreams

New Dreams





Editor's Notes - RCW


RCW: Due to the wonderful response to "First Dreams" from

the Net and the ED community, we have an early harvest this

issue! The dream index is separated and put this right in

with the dreams & comments section. Tell us what you


BOBK: As a theme for the dreams section *next issue* of

Electric Dreams: how about SIGNIFICANT DREAMS from the

dreamers perspective? Also, commentaries have dwindled in

recent issues. How about sending in your thoughts on one of

the ED dreams?

RCW: OK, let's go with the significant dreams for next

month. For those of you who are writing articles & doing

interviews, maybe this can be a focus theme as well?

We are continuing to reap the benefits of Chris Hicks

moderating the Dream groups. The ED DreamWheels, as we call

them, continue to be popular and are a real delight. Be

sure to sign up for the next group with Chris. Starts in

about a week!

Also, our connections with Linton & Becky Hutchison at

DreamLink continue and you can find out how to participate

in this dreamsharing adventure by reading Chris' DreamWheel


Speaking of growing and expanding, the Electric Dreams

community is now at about 560 members. We don't advertise

much so as to keep the community - well, community like.

But the word gets out and we welcome all the new dreamers.

If you feel lost or would like some guidance on dreaming

online, look at the beginning or end of this issue for the

staff e-mail addresses in the area of your interest. They

are waiting for you to contact them.

Are you a dream researcher or interested in dream research?

Besides the updates on conferences, classes, web sites and

other dream events, Peggy Coats offers a *new* section in

the Global Dreaming News that will be just for research


And get you researchers off on the right foot, I've

included an article on conducting Dream research online.

Dream Sharing online - Safe or Dangerous? The time seems

ripe to lay it all out. The ASD Board has tabled the issue

of whether or not to link to the Electric Dreams community

and will be considering the issue again this fall. We

continue at Electric Dreams to try and educate those not

familiar with the Net & include as many diverse opinions

and viewpoints as possible. You will get the full spectrum

this issue. Send in your own thoughts on this as we

continue to explore dream sharing ethics and the Net.

Victoria Quinton opens the dream airing column to a variety

of topics, including a request concerning Dreams and CFIDS

and comments on the issues of dreamsharing in cyberspace

and other topics. She also has an interview with one of

Cyberspace's most interesting psychologists, John Suler.

Also, author Scott Hughes offers us some thoughts on dream

theory while Eudy and Carter offer us some very different

takes on dream inspired poetry.

Thanks again to all who sent in 1st dreams - let's dig into

the past this month and find those significant dreams.

- Dreamin' up a Storm,

Richard Wilkerson


Question Airing Forum no 4


Victoria Quinton

changing e-mail address- Please Note:


Hello all

First dreams are coming in to the Bulletin Board and to

other places, some will be in this issue.

Keep them coming!

Dangerous but Accessable Dream Groups - VQ

Well, without the Internet, I would not be able to

participate in Electric dreams, all the way from


I would not be able to exchange wonderful ideas with such

interesting and varied people, nor have the foundation for

ongoing e-mail "interviews".

I have found these interviews take on a "life of their own"

Sure, I start off with a few basic questions, based on the

interviewee's main interest in the dreaming domain, but

then the replies generate further questions, and so it


And to think that a year ago "The Internet" was something

that seemed to crop up on occasional news stories, and was

not yet such an integral part of my daily life.

To my knowledge, there are no local dream sharing groups

and , especially while I have primary care of a toddler,

and am financially dependent on my husband, I would be

unlikely to find alternative outlets for dream-sharing.

There are apparently concerns about approaches to dreams

on line, not only the "interpretation" of them, but also

the sharing of them in any form.

For the moment, I shall assume that those criticising the

Dream Wheels have at least tried them out.

I personally found participating in them stimulating and

invigorating. What may be missed in terms of seeing body

language, facial expression or other non-verbal reactions,

is, in my view, compensated by a reduction in prejudices

based on these factors.

There is a healthy egalitarianism in this approach,

combined with compassion within the group, that would chip

in were "inappropriate" remarks to be sent.

Ironically, since taking on the Electric Dreams role, my

participation in the dream wheels has dropped off; but not

my support for them.

Victoria Quinton


A Response to our Ad on alt.dreams..

"Interpret your own dreams and it would be easier.......

Others may take out meanings that don't exists...."



Jerry Garcia Gone - 1 year later....

"The White Room" dreamed by Karolen

I had a dream about Jerry Garcia on the night that he died.

The dream occurred within an hour of his death. I walked

into a room, and saw Jerry sitting at a table. The room

was all white and misty-like. The table was white. Jerry

looked very happy, healthy and young. He was wearing all

white. There were robed, white, indistinct figures sitting

at the table as well, about four of them. I walked in and

sat down across the table from

Jerry. We started a conversation. We talked for a minute

or two, but I don't remember what we said, only that I

enjoyed talking to him. Then I got up and left the room.

In the morning a friend came to the house and told me Jerry

had died. I was not surprised. I felt a definite sense of

peace and closure, as though everything was complete and

Jerry was in a good place.


Thanks for putting this together.

Sweet dreams!


(Last Year when Garcia died we asked fans about their

dreams. The collection is still available at the

Electric Dreams Web site) RCW


Dreams and CFIDS by NV

My interest in dreams and dream research goes back some

years, but it hasn't been serious until this last year when

I developed ME, or CFIDS as it's termed in the US. As you

may know one of the only pleasant (occasionally unpleasant)

effects of this chronic illness are vivid dreams. I've had

very diverse and very strange dreams for the last 9 months

and I've been recording them for most of the last 5 months.

I can now usually remember a couple each night. When I'm

having a relapse it's one of the few things that makes

things bearable - at least I can escape at night to another

realm where the laws of ME don't apply.

By training I am a biologist and, as a scientist, I've

always been curious about how things work and why - hence

my current interest in dream research. I've come across

some old texts and am keen to learn more. I wonder could

you or someone else in the group recommend a couple of

texts or papers on the latest findings.

I'd also be interested to know if there has been much

research into ME dreams, whether the nature of these dreams

are different (for me they are). Why do ME suffers tend to

have so many vivid dreams? An area to look at perhaps.

Might be interesting to compare the dreams of ME and non-ME

suffers. Incidentally disrupted sleep is common problem in

ME - you tend to sleep 10-14 hours or hardly at all, and

you wake up the next morning feeling awful, no matter how

long you've slept. I wonder if the wetchedness next

morning is because the pattern of REM and non-REM sleep is

altered in some way by the disease (although why would this

produce such vivid and unusual dreams?). If dreams and

sleep patterns are being distrupted then maybe some kind of

dream therapy (teaching people not to dream?) might help


NV - (send replies via


From Sarah: When I was a kid I used to dream in cartoon,

now that I'm older I don't anymore. My friends give me

weird looks when I tell them and they say it sounds so

strange. Has this ever happened to anyone else?

==== end dream airing column ======




Check out John Suler s pages on WORKING (AND PLAYING) WITH




For Nutcracker fans - don t forget to check out

Nutcracker s Web Page at:


lucrative sublimation in your dreams (luck-rate if...)

by Daniel Carter


(Origninally published on the Fiction of Philosophy List



looking at you what is this stuff anyway what makes one ask

onesewlf a question that cut that accent wrinkle in the

fabric that reminds me of your dress under stress of your

body in it this I could not but how shall I resist it's

that composite thing I heard about when it ain't nobody in

particular it kind o' cools itself out as it swerve into

Holly would if you'd just let her


looking at you what is this stuff anyway what makes one ask

onesewlf a question that cut that accent wrinkle in the

fabric of your dress under stress of your body in it this I

could not but how shall I resist it's that composite thing

I heard about when it ain't nobody in particular it kind o'

cools itself out as it swerve into Holly would if you'd

just let her


Interview : John Suler on Children's Dreams

by Victoria Quinton


Victoria Quinton [V]: Would you say you have been

interested in dreams most of your life?

Do you deal with children's dreams at all? I am keen on

creating a "dream

friendly" environment for my daughter who is almost 2 1/2


John Suler [JS]: I think that's a wonderful goal on your

part. I hope you succeed. Unfortunately, there will always

be some people who are hostile towards the whole concept of

dream interpretation (probably people who are anxious about

their own intrapsychic life) - but we can still build a

community with(out) having to convince everyone.

[JS]: I don't work specifically with children's dreams.

But my students do on occasion tell me about their

childhood dreams. From time to time, I also ask my own

children (Asia-9, Kira-5) about their dreams. Funny you

should ask this question, because just yesterday Kira had a

dream about "Coonie" - her beloved stuffed animal (a

racoon) which has been with her since she was

born. Unfortunately, she lost him a few days ago in the

Bahamas where we were taking our family vacation. My wife

and I made desperate attempts to find Coonie, but to no

avail. Of course, Kira was quite upset about this loss and

went into a grieving process. The dream, no doubt, was part

of that mourning.

[JS]: She dreamt she was swimming in a pool with Coonie

nearby, but then realized that she was not swimming in

water, but in a large pool filled with many Coonies.

[JS]: A very simple dream, but so poetic and beautiful,

and packed with meaning despite its simplicity. In

psychoanalytic terms, Coonie is a "transitional object"

that sustains her sense of self, sooths her, and helps move

her along the developmental path. The dream clearly depicts

this. She is surrounded by Coonie, immersed in him, made

buoyant by him. It just so happens that on this Bahamas

vacation she learned to swim, for the first time, in the

deep end of the pool. It was a major developmental

accomplishment for her. And she associates that with

Coonie. There is also

a very spiritual/mystical aspect to the dream. Coonie

(God?) is not a single entity, but a all-surrounding

presence. In the dream, she is immersed in the "oceanic

oneness" that many mystics associate with God.

[V]: Would you say that book learning or "experience" has

had more influence on the way you approach dreams?

[JS]: Like all things, people, including me, learn best

when they combine "book" (intellectual) learning with

experiential learning. If you want to improve your skills

at dream work, read about it, work on your own dreams, and

talk to others about their dreams. If you do one or the

other, you can walk into a dead end. Books provide new

ideas and perspectives you may not have

considered before, but if you don't apply those ideas and

test them out "in the field", those ideas become stale.


John Suler, Ph.D.

Professor of Psychology

Rider University

Lawrenceville, NJ 08648 / /





Theories of Dreams - By Scott Hughes


In the literature of dreams exist countless theories

regarding their meaning. Which theory are you to believe?

Each dreamer must eventually face this question. You cant

believe in every theory as such a view would only lead to

madness. You must personally decide the meaning of dreams,

and their relationship to waking life. Some believe dreams

lack meaning. Others believe they express omens from the

gods. Still others believe they contain messages of

repressed desires. What do you believe?

Each viewpoint on dreams arises from a bed of beliefs.

Beliefs making up a theory, a theory of dreams. Your

beliefs act like a lens focusing all that you see, both

physically and while you experience dream sleep. So decide

on those theories, those ideas you will use when looking

inward. Your dream beliefs reveal which brand of lens you

use when looking inward. They will reveal what kind of tint

you put on your dream time experiences.

I have never found an ultimate theory, an ultimate

explanation for the experience of dreams. I have found a

multiplicity of explanations that seem to work for

different people. Perhaps, we are each meant to have a

different theory of dreams. A unique perspective where we

have taken ideas from different theories to create a lens

that can look inward.

Scott Hughes


A Rose for Martina at the '96 ASD Conference

by Charles N. Eudy, MFCT, Ph. D.


(She had come determined to be enlihgtened, and dreamed of

being sucked up through the top of her head. Frightened,

she woke: "I don't die!" I had cmoe wanting to make peace

between my rational mind and spirit. I dreamed of a lovely

rose and bu8ilt this poem narrative around it.)

Whne I was a child

I found a rose and loved it,

So I took it to a scientist

who gave parts of it to ohter scientists

and said, "Cme back later, kid"

I came back later, and

the scientist said, "here's your rose, kid."

and gave me a box. Then with pride,

"And this is our report."

handing me a thisck stack of papers.

Later, alone, I looked in the box

and did not understand.

I raced through the repost

looking for answers

and maybe some comfort

but found only dead Greek workds

and dead latin words

and what was now

in the box

my one dead rose.

I peeked again its scalpeled, drying petals,

their bruised and blackened spots-

and wished I were blind.

I hear again the distand, santiezed Greek and Latin

replacements for my rose-

and wished I were deaf.

I started to cry, but stopped,

as I caught the scent of the box-

My rose was not dead.

but expanding, leaving its sweek mark

all that is touched in its new journey.

Now, though I am much, much older,

My rose is still with me,

and these new tears are not of sorrow!


Safety in Dreamwork - Dennis Schmidt


(Originally a note to me, some cut- RCW)

I don't like the dream interpretation that goes on in

Electric Dreams. I want to tell

you briefly how I feel about it, and I would like to know

how you feel about it.

I feel that people working with each other's dreams in

groups and partnerships have learned, and some have

articulated, certain requirements for safety in sharing

dreams. Several of us feel that it is not possible to meet

these requirements in group dream work over the Internet.

Sharing dreams person-to-person is dialogue. It is

emotionally engaging. It requires sensitivity to the

dreamer's reactions. Dream workers such as Monte Ullman,

Will Phillips, and Dick McLeester agree that all must agree

that the dreamer has authority over the sharing.

Such sensitivity and such authority are not possible over

the Net. A person commenting on someone else's dream can

not see the reaction, can not know when to stop or change


Interpreting without giving the dreamer the opportunity to

interrupt -- and on the Web the dreamer has no opportunity

to cut short an interpretation -- can expose the dreamer

to serious dangers. I like Will Phillips's descriptions of

them, so I will quote him.

"The first is what I call 'Trojan-Horsing.' This is when

someone uses a dream as the vehicle by which to gain

access to another's psyche, and then assaults

them while their defenses are down. Trojan-Horsing is

often unintentional, and so must be even more closely

guarded against. It may even be motivated by good

intentions, as in misguided attempts to subtly slip in

'good advice' in the guise of dreamwork....

"The second, more serious, hazard might be called 'dream

rape.' This refers to the forced and insistent projection

of meaning onto someone else's dream. ..."

Simply the dreamer's inability to interrupt an

interpretation allows the interpreter to be "insistent,"

beyond the point at which the dreamer would interrupt.

I feel that the optional use of the prefatory clause, "If

it were my dream," and recasting each reference to the

dreamer as "I" instead of "you", offer almost no

protection, introduce some additional risk, and manifest a

dangerous misreading of the intention behind those

practices in work such as Ullman's.

The lack of protection and the additional risk stem from

the same cause: The commentator, feeling that he or she

has offered sufficient protection to the dreamer, may then

feel freer to project onto the dream than they would if

they would keep in mind that they are speaking to someone

else about their dream.

It is possible, and it can be injurious, to project


So are Ullman and Jeremy Taylor wrong in counseling lifting

your commentary from identification with the dreamer by

thinking and saying, "If it were my dream, ..."? No

(although I prefer a phrasing like, "When I imagine myself

in a situation like that, I feel ..." or "When I associate

on your dream, ..."). But it is not a magic incantation

that neutralizes the danger in all following suggestions

given to the dreamer. The intention is to increase

sensitivity in the commentator, to curb the impulse to

project onto the dreamer. I feel it is a dangerous error

to take it as license to analyze and interpret.

Finally, I feel that interpreting someone else's dream

(even when thinking about it as interpreting one's own) is

almost always a bad idea. This is true even if they ask

you to do it, and even if they thank you for it afterward.

I quote Will Phillips again:

"I cannot overemphasize the need to resist the urge to tell

a dreamer what you think their dream means. From

experience, I can say that such projected interpretations

are almost always either partially or completely


Even if your interpretation should happen to be one hundred

percent correct, the dreamer still tends to feel invaded

and 'ripped off'. It is always best to remain in the role

of a guide or helper ... and draw the dream's meaning out

through sensitive questioning. Every human being deserves

to be granted the space for self-discovery."

I believe that opportunity for self-discovery, protected

from suggestions that are usually misleading, is far more

valuable than a harvest of ideas developed in an

environment that can not guide and be guided through

sensitive questions and responses.

I think you know that I am not opposed to technology. I

think, and have thought for years, that we have something

to gain by figuring out appropriate ways to use computers

in support of our dream work. But, as you see, I think

that dream interpretation is not one of them.

I am speaking for myself, and would like to understand how

you see these issues. I know that I am representing, in

general although not in detail, thoughts and concerns

shared by many others. I know that this will become a

public debate soon. I hope you understand that I respect

you as a coworker who sees these issues differently than I

do, and I hope we will both gain by discussing our views.


Dennis Schmidt


Dangerous Liaissons - Skye Turell


(A response to "Dangerous Dreaming" ED 3(6) which I am

printing here as well as the extended re-quotes as it is

related to the above article "Safety in Dreamwork".) RCW

This issue of the appropriateness of online dream sharing

so beautifully focuses what is a head-on clash of old vs.

new paradigms. In fact, the paradigms involved are so

foundational that the much overused term *paradigm* doesn't

even begin to capture the magnitude. At the core, this is

about our fundamental belief systems regarding fear vs.

comfort, safety vs. danger and power vs. disempowerment.

These are **the** issues of the 1990's. We've barely begun

to tentatively approach them. **How** we approach them

will have everything to do with what the 2000's look like.

Whether we allow ourselves to believe that it's *safe* to

approach them (which is what this issue is really all

about), is obviously critical.

Cuts taken from:

>Dangerous Dreams - The risks of online dream sharing

>By Richard Wilkerson (Electric Dreams vol 3 # 6)


>I was confronted at the ASD XIII conference with the


>that dreams are too dangerous to be shared on the net.


>general idea was that there is something about dreams


>makes us so vulnerable, so helpless, that in the wrong


>serious psychological damage may occur.

We are vulnerable when approaching the unknown, the

*other.* We've been taught by the world's major religions

that just beyond the veil lies the realm of Satan, demons,

negativity. If we stay in our narrow little track, we'll

be safe. Oh sure, sometimes Satanic forces impinge on our

safe little track and we can't always be sure whether our

sense of things is our own, or whether it's that negative

"authority" which has led us astray -- therefore we can't

trust our own impulses, our own sense of things. We have

little trust in our own capabilities of discernment.

If you believe yourself to be too 20th century for a belief

in the above, check again. These beliefs are **so**

engrained in our Western society that they influence all

of us.

For the scientifically minded, the ideas are the same, but

they are expressed differently. The *other* is the realm

of the irrational, chaotic random firings of the brain.

We can't even comprehend a theory that grants validity to

dreams, mystical or paranormal experiences. That's for

psychotics. We give them drugs so they no longer are

capable of having any experiences.

For the psychologists in the crowd, it becomes a firmly

engrained belief that dreams are representive of negative

unresolved issues, of neurotic conditions, or worse.

Framing them in the positive doesn't negate the fact that

the key idea here is that dreams, especially ones involving

fear and other *negative* emotional states, are something

to be gotten over. The idea of resolving them becomes

another way of saying to get rid of them, perhaps leaving

some positive residual learning in the wake. Dreams are

still considered to be fictional, manufactured artifacts of

consciousness. They are not granted validity,

experientially. The levels of consciousness and aspects of

dimensional existence involved in dreaming are not granted

equal footing with this *real reality* and the purpose of

dream analysis becomes to shift the dream learning into our

full waking state. (I'd suggest that the real goal here is

to blend the levels of consciousness so that it becomes

more a matter of us taking our waking consciousness

*there,* but that's definitely another conversation.)

For the politically minded, these ideas have expressed

themselves as cold or hot wars. *Enemies* outside the

boundaries. They must be fought in order to keep us safe,

in terms of physical safety, or perhaps more to the point,

in terms of financial security.

Yes, the *other* is dangerous. We've believed that since

The Garden of Eden, since Sodom & Gomorrah, since the Tower

of Babel debacle. If we venture into the other realms,

*get above ourselves,* then God or The Gods get majorly

pissed off. The result is famine, plagues, bolts from

heaven...all sorts of dangerous stuff.

>But wait a minute. One of the self assigned tasks in my


>is to bring our culture into a relationship with dreaming


>moves in a different direction than, for example, telling


>children upon awakening, "Oh forget it, it was just a


>Simply dismissing the arguments about the potency of


>would be counter-productive.

Sure, first we go into total denial -- *it's just a dream*

translates as, it's meaningless, nonexistent really. For

those with a more insight therapy orientation, then it's

still more denial. Sure dreams have meaning, they are

symbolic reflections of the unresolved conflicts of our

lives. But it's messy business learning what all these

symbols mean -- that's best left to those with the

education (social status), definitely not for the average

person on the street. Certainly not something to be

granted the ultimate status -- calling them, or the levels

of consciousness or dimensional locations **real.** Let's

make sure they remain safely in the realm of the

theoretical and intellectual -- something that can be

safely discussed around even the most refined dinner table.

(Explain to me, people, why we all seem to be having

essentially the same dreams, why we meet strangers in

dreams only to meet them again in reality, why people can

*meet* in the dreamstate and both recall the identical

experience? I could go on and on. New belief: We live in

a multidimensional universe, with a multileved

consciousness, we humans are quite capable of penetrating

the veil and having contact with events and individuals we

are told can not be.)

Further, since all this material is reflective of

unresolving issues, it by definition borders on abberant

states of being -- it is **dangerous business**. There's a

fine line between mental health and mental illness, we are

taught. Only those in positions of authority have the

education or the right to make judgements about which is

which. And we have often granted them the legal authority

in such matters. Certainly the average citizen is not

capable of making such determinations, we've been taught,

which is just another way of saying that these things

aren't really real. They are not accessible, or their

meaning is not accessible to just anyone. They are of

another realm altogether.

This leaves us, as a society, in a strange catch-22. Those

who might help us venture outside our safe little track,

who might show us more expansive ways of being, are

automatically negated, debunked, deemed a threat.

Instead, reality will be determined by those with enough

social clout to be granted that authority, those who most

often have the most to gain from maintaining the status

quo. It becomes a very undynamic system and, need I point

out, life doesn't appear to thrive in undynamic systems.

> Now to be fair, the main arguments made were about the

>assumption of authority, the potential damage of telling

>other people what their dreams mean rather than letting


>come to find this meaning with their own inner resources.

Are we so warped that we would automatically assume that

any ol' person who happens to respond to our dream is some

kind of *authority*? Are we so conditioned to accepting

anyone as having more authority than we do, that we will

grant that position to someone who isn't even using their

real name, for pete's sake?

If the answer is yes, then we are in very serious trouble,

my friends. I mean this quite seriously. My personal

opinion is that we grant authority **much** too readily

and, at the same time, the average citizen is quite capable

of absorbing an idea and determining it to be either

useful or pure unmitigated bull. If the answer to this is

*no,* then we'd better come up with a quick alternative to

the democratic system. Since this is actually a readily

accepted statement, we *have* dispensed with the democratic

system. Instead, we allow those in positions of authority

to withhold information that's deemed **too much for us**

or contrary to our **national security** (another wway of

saying the same thing) and many actually support these

attitudes and actions as valid!!! Amazing!

The fact that we are even having this discussion, though,

is cause for a lot of concern. Am I to understand that

some of our key dreamwork people, many of whom are mental

health professionals, have really accepted some status of

authority for themselves? I mean, late at night, all alone

with their thoughts, do they really believe they understand

very much at all about human consciousness? I **know**

that we understand very little (and, for the record, I'm a

reasonably well educated person), I know that *they*

understand very little. That's not a put-down, but simply

a realistic assessment. We all, individually and

collectively, and with total equality, need to go back to

the drawing board. We can not continue to dismiss

extraordinary experiences and that means that we must

develop some understanding and explanation for them. For

our purposes here, I include dreams in the category

*extraordinary experiences* because I believe many of them

to be just that -- completely real experiences which don't

appear to happen every day. This process, by definition,

is one that is not welcomed by those embracing the status


>Its been my feeling for sometime that dream texts are


>similar. Certainly the technique of taking the dream "as

if it

>were your own" moves in this direction. In this technique


>approach a dream as if it were our story, not the


>and then talk about the ways it is relevant to us, how the

>imagery moves us, how we give it meaning and how it

returns to

>us its significance. The author of the dream is


Richard, here I have to disagree. Some may have noticed

that during dream wheels and online message board postings

I do not stick to the Ullman technique. That's because,

while I understand the sentiment behind it's development --

to establish a structure so that group members can't lay

*trips* on each other -- it simply doesn't work. And

worse, I think it adds to the potential problems.

I got my feet wet in the human potential movement back in

the late 60's-early 70's.This was the era of encounter

groups and group therapy in general. There were many

ground rules to prevent people from laying trips. However,

it didn't work. It didn't work in spades, in fact. Those

who wanted to tell someone what they really thought, did

so, simply altering the wording so that it fit the ground

rules technically. No one was fooled, we understood

perfectly what they were trying to communicate. In fact,

the ground rules added insult to injury in the sense that

these communications were dishonest. People could pretend

to agree, approve, or be *helpful* while something else

entirely was going on. I much prefer a straight-ahead

communication. It's honest and I can decide how I wish to

respond and how I want to deal with the information within


This issue really becomes one of form vs. substance. We

have been taught that if the form is acceptable, then

that's all we need be concerned with. It doesn't matter

what our government does, as long as they stick to the

agreed upon structures, then any action undertaken is

"democratic." We have learned the hard way that this is

not always the case. None of that democratic form has

protected us from anything, if anything it has helped to

camoflage some significant wrong-doing.

You can't control what other people do and say. That's the

hard truth, but that's it folks. What we need to learn is

how to use what other people do and say in a positive way.

Even the most difficult interaction can be used in a

positive way. Everyone in this society, by virtue of being

human, has an unalienable right to real truth. They will

know, or can learn, what to do with it. That is not an

easy process necessarily, but it's time that we gave up the

illusion of being able to protect anyone from anything.

Life doesn't happen that way and online dreamwork doesn't

either. Further, if we continually tell people that they

are incapable of hearing the truth, they may believe us!

This is a very *disempowering* social dynamic that is

everywhere around us.

>And so dreams became aligned with the irrational and, this


>my point, aligned with psychology. (There is also a hidden

>ethic in Christianity about the natural and the irrational

>being the same, but that's another topic).

It's not another topic, Richard, it's the psychological

crux of this discussion. But it's more like the

natural/irrational/paranormal/not Church sanctioned equals

Satan. Or, framed a little more in urban culture

terminology: it's ideas from outside the system as we have

understood and defined it which might upset our theoretical

apple cart big time, which might force us to realize, in no

uncertain terms, the ineffectiveness of our current

theoretical understandings of practically everything.

Psychology is part of the mainstream, the status quo, and

absolutely certainly its practitioners are solidly in the

cultural elite (well, especially psychiatrists -- that M.D.

still garners a lot of respect.). That mainstream has

everything to lose.

> None of this is meant as evidence that the dream is or


>dangerous. It is a statement saying that the dream is not

>owned by psychology and psychologists, nor by clinicians


>the board of behavioral sciences.

No, the dream isn't owned by psychology...see my above

statements about the state of the mental health profession.

But the very idea that a dream *might* be dangerous --

that this is even a valid conversation to be having, is

absurd in the extreme. Do we discuss whether having five

fingers is dangerous? Whether breathing is dangerous?

Obviously the human being has the capacity for dreaming.

More than that, without the dream experience there is

significant psychological and physical stress and distress.

We are **supposed** to dream. It's absurd to have the idea

that something that is an inherent facet of our nature can

also be detrimental to our existence. (It's reductionist

Western Civilization that's detrimental to our existence,

but that's definitely another story.)

>I haven't yet been able to understand the arguments that

>dreams in and of themselves are simply too psychologically

>toxic, too revealing, to apt to cause major psychological

>damage in and of themselves. The damage theory seems to


>more from how we approach dreams, what people think and


>they are doing when they share them with a qualified or

>unqualified individual or group.

I will expand a bit here on some of my earlier statements

about the narrow track vs. extraordinary experiences. The

*damage* is potentially real, but it involves the

disintegration of our current scientific and social

understandings and structures. The danger isn't what we

might experience out there in those other realms -- people

have been having extraordinary experiences since recorded

history was first recorded -- the danger is that once we

understand what's *out there* we might come to understand

that our entire framework for what *here* is, what life is,

what the human race is, all of that will come to complete

disintegration and reintegration.

What we fear is that we won't be able to integrate those

new under- standings and we will protect ourselves from

that eventuality at all costs, including our own

self-destruction. Those who have a lot to lose politically

and financially don't believe that they can have real

power, rather than the trappings and illusions of power

they now enjoy. They are grasping at the trappings and

illusions with all their might as they feel them slipping

away. In a sense this means **all** of us. The old

structures and ideas are falling away and we are finding

it very difficult to let go and realize that in the

process we might find real power, rather than the illusion.

>I will guess that those who are concerned about the danger


>the dream are more concerned about people coming to share

>dreams and expecting some kind of psychotherapeutic effect


>environment. The explanation of the danger here will


>according to the psychological perspective. From the

>perspective of the innocent dreamer, the problem is that


>have *already* given over the function of the creation of

>meaning and value to a supposed authority. In a sense, we


>all kind of in this position with dreams as we feel any


>to interpret them at all. I don't feel the need to


>my going to work in the morning (well, most mornings) but

>there is a call I have imposed upon myself with dreams.

>Is this more dangerous than simply going along with the


>of my culture and society and saying, "Well, it was just

>dream" and forgetting it? I suppose it is - in that my


>now includes the dream text and my explorations of it.


>through it, with it, are then more dangerous than if I


>just left well enough alone

I think there is a validity to this idea of

*interpretation.* Yes, dreams are a natural language, a

universal language even, maybe. But it's a language that we

were forced to stop speaking and it has faded with time.

In that sense, we do need to re-learn, to compile new

*dictionaries* and help each other puzzle it out.

The irony will be that once we re-learn how to speak the

dream language I'm certain we'll realize that we were

speaking it all along. That our daily *real* reality is

comprised of the same symbols, that the same sort of

*reality creation* is taking place in both realms. **That**

is not something that we are keen on exploring at all

because that will require acceptance of self-responsibility

at entirely new levels.

>There are a few life practices I am not yet willing to


>over to the *exclusive* use of the psychotherapeutic


Don't hand 'em any, Richard. Don't give your power away to

anyone, anytime. Besides, only when we are each secure in

our ability to determine what's appropriate for ourselves

as individuals and actively create our own lives, only then

can we truly listen to each other. Until that time, we

*must* to some extent be afraid to listen to each other --

so insecure are we in our ability to confront aspects of

ourselves we feel might be too threatening.

>I guess the Orthodoxy would say that since there

>can be no authority on dreams, no one should be allowed to

>make meaning of them. The Christian church has


>make exceptions for saints.

Wrong. Any orthodoxy will want to claim that right for

themselves, and only themselves. That's the nature of

power-seeking. Knowledge is power and no one wants to

share their power.

>The Ecology of Cyberspace.

>As John Herbert has noted in an unpublished study on the

>difference between online and offline groups, one of the


>differences is the reflective quality of the Online groups


>the emotionally pitched quality of the face-to-face


>This emotional pitch picks up a bit in real time chat, but

>never quite reaches the face-to-face pressure.

>This is not a judgement of one being superior over the


>just a note that it is much more likely for emotional

>instability to play a factor in face-to-face encounters.

>(However, Herbert did note that online groups were rated

>higher in self rating scores of insight gained). The point

>here is that in cyberspace there is a time factor, a


>of reflective imagination over reactions. There is time to

>consider other people's reactions as well.

Modern psychiatry/psychology, as well as every other human

institution, is **terrified** of emotions. We believe them

to be the means by which we can be manipulated, or even

destroyed. We're afraid we'll be confronted with knowledge

of ourselves that we won't be able to handle. (Doesn't the

devil entice and seduce? Don't mentally ill people

express unusually high levels of emotional expression?

Don't emotions herald all those personal issues that we'd

really rather not confront?)

>This means that to participate in our society, the adult


> to been able to handle free speech. To begin saying that


>are adult citizens who can't, is a serious theoretical

and political


Racist, elitist, supremicist...and afraid. I find it

ironic that the *human potential movement* is probably the

last bunch, in my experience, to really embrace the

reality of our actualization.

>I talked to other dreamworkers at the ASD XIII conference

who have

>been exploring dreamworking online, including John

Herbert, Jeremey

>Taylor, Jayne Gackenbach and Electric Dreams community


>and have yet to find *one* single case of an unhappy


>Again, there are many who find the process useless, and


>like the _idea_ of dreamsharing - but not one bad


>has been reported in now what is about the 3rd public year


>several pre-public years of online dream sharing. If other

>adult activities that are deemed dangerous can boast these

>statistics, I think they would be hardly be called


Gee, Richard, y'now that's exactly what's happened in the

UFO field. Insiders at the government have said that the

reason they instigated their debunking, discrediting,

coverup procedures during the late 1940's and even more

vigilantly in the 1960's is because they were afraid that

the presence of Ets would set off wholesale panic. In

particular they were afraid that it would lead to the

disintegration of society -- most particularly that people

would stop paying their taxes.

In the years since then there have been repeated broad

daylight sightings by millions of people over Tokyo, Mexico

City and other locations. Y'know what? *No one* seems to

be particularly upset. These are the subject of serious

news programs and newspaper coverage in many parts of the

world (that it isn't covered in the U.S. is an interesting

sociological/political oddity that warrants some serious

study), and the atmosphere seems to be more that of

excitement and curiosity. Mexico City, like most modern

large cities, is probably not highly educated by and

large, and certainly Mexicans are typically very

conservative in their religious beliefs...still, there's no


One wonders if it's the governments of the world that are

on verge of panic and that the *protection* is really more

an attempt to protect their best interests. I don't trust

anyone who tries to *protect* me. They almost certainly

are on an ego-trip or have agendas. I'll protect myself,

thank you very much.

>Let's say that dreams are potentially wonderful, and save


>dangerous warnings for a culture that hides away and


>dream discussions.


Skye Turell (


DREAM WHEEL UPDATE: Safe and Dangerous Dream Sharing

by Christopher Hicks


The Dream Wheel groups are going well this month. Our

eleventh email Dream Wheel, running with three dreams, will

be complete, or near completion by the time of this issue

of Electric Dreams. The new venue of the World Wide Web

continues to be an adventure. The Dream Wheels on the

Dream Link Web site

now have their very own section. With much thanks to Linton

Hutchinson the Dream Wheel groups and instructions can now

be found by clicking on the "Wheel" button from the main

Dream Link page. I would ask patience from everyone when

finding technical problems or instructions that seem to

have been written for a different group. Everything has

not yet caught up with everything! It is all very

exciting. New territory is being covered here. The trail

is so very fresh, in an ancient sort of way.

We are all on a tremendous journey. As with any such

journey fear and danger are present. The importance comes

in how one handles them. Recently the staff of Electric

Dreams was made aware of a letter from someone concerning

the potential dangers of dream groups such as ours. This

letter is not, I believe, written out of malice or spite.

However, it seems to be a sincere expression of very real

perceptions of danger to the dreamer in the environment of

our dream groups.

I believe that our groups provide for the safety of the

dreamer, but I am only one person. As moderator of both

the email and WWW Dream Wheels some might say I am less

than objective. I, therefore, throw this out to the

readers of Electric Dreams.

Do you believe dreamwork is dangerous? Are the Dream

Wheels dangerous? If you haven't participated in one of

our groups yet I invite you to do so. Afterwards let me

know what you think. Let Richard, our chief editor, know.

Post you opinions to the Electric Dreams bulletin board,

the ASD bulletin board, the dream newsgroups, and email

your dream-interested friends. If we don't communicate

openly as a community then what sort of community are we?

Dreamwork is like anything else--not all of us will agree.

Let us work together to further dreamwork and not let

disagreements block us!

As always, if anyone is interested in more information on

any of our Dream Wheel groups simply email me. I will note

here that all are welcome. If you think the Dream Wheels

are dangerous I encourage you to join one and observe

without actively participating. After which I am always

welcome to discussion of the group and/or process.

--Christopher Hicks


Conducting Dream Research on the Net:

A Quick Start for Beginners

August 1996 Notes - Richard Wilkerson


As an editor for Electric Dreams I often receive requests

for research assistance on dream and the Net. This article

is a summary for researchers new to the Net.

In July of 1996 DreamGate (in cooperation with the

Electric Dreams community) built an educational web site

for 13th annual Association for the Study of Dreams

conference in Berkeley and included the available research

that was being conducted online as well as links to venues

for future research.

Though no longer fully supported by ASD, a mirror of this

site at

is still available to researchers and educators seeking to

use the Net and needing a quick place to start. Included at

the site are not only other dream research online, but

other research supports as well, such a the collection of

dream bibliographies by long time researchers, such as

Ernest Hartmann, Milton Kramer, Henry Reed and Harry Fiss,

to mention a few.

Included below is an update and general report on the

venues and networks available to dream researchers online

who may be unfamiliar with these different tools and cyber-


I would like to request that researchers using the research

link site or this article get back to me on new

developments and venues for dream research either by

posting the information to the Electric Dreams Bulletin

Board or e-mailing me

New research requests may be sent to Peggy Coats








-Final notes


At this time, the only online dream magazine that is

distributed via e-mail is _Electric Dreams_. Controversial

among researchers due to its policies of free speech and

encouraging dream interpretation, this E-zine is your best

bet for contacting the largest amount of dream concerned

netizines in the world. Besides the wonderful articles,

poems, dreams and comments, the e-zine also offers the

Global Dreaming News which has a special section for

researchers and is often posted in a variety of Online

sites around the Net and Web. The editors suggest that

researchers establish a relationship with the community

rather than just leaving requests for experimental

subjects. This can be easily done by running a continuing

column about the research, keeping the community up to date

and offering simple educational essays. Contact the

community via the web site

or sending a letter to Richard Wilkerson


Newsgroups are done in bulletin board style posts and

allow for conversations and dialogue to take place in a

somewhat public venue over time. You may post a note today

and a couple days later someone may respond. And yet, the

feeling when reading is of a real written dialogue.

Responses are generally one or two every 48 to 72 hours. If

you don't get a response within this time frame, probably

this is not the place to ask the questions you are asking.

For examples of dream research done on these boards,


for a history of Usenet itself:

Some Dream Friendly Newsgroups

alt.dreams - discussions about dreams and dreaming.

alt.dreams.lucid - about lucid dreaming, issues.

alt.dreams.castaneda Carlos Castaneda & friends

alt.psychology.jung. - Jung and related topics,

alt.consciousness - Has had low participation in 1996

alt.consciousness.mysticism - focus mostly on mediative

alt.consciousness.4th-way - Gurdjieff leftovers

alt.mythology - remind them that Cambell liked dreams

alt.pagan - a really wild bunch

alt.psychology.adlerian -- lately its been dead

alt.psychology.jung - generally open to research, - wide range of interests -

alt.psychology.personality - generally about psych types,

alt.psychology.transpersonal - has been dipping lately

alt.surrealism - sometimes outrageous - always unexpected

talk.religion.newage - a very busy group - wide range Chronic Fatigue Syndrome Moderated) Chronic Fatigue Syndrome Information. Fibromyalgia information. Sleep disorders support group.


Quickly taking the place of Usenet Newsgroups are more

privately run bulletin boards. These boards may be even

more specific and focused than the Usenet groups. Electric

Dreams, The Association for the Study of Dreams and the

Sleep disorder related boards. There is no collected links

page I've found at this time for Web Boards, but most can

be found from the ASD-13 Research Page

Electric Dreams BB:

Association for the Study of Dreams (ASD) BB:


Unlike offline mail lists, online mail lists are useful

and center around thousands of topics. Each one requires

that you send an e-mail with instructions on joining, and

the instructions for joining are a little different for

each. But if you send a polite request, you will get back

some kind of helpful info on joining. They also require a

little lurking or just waiting to see what is and isn't

appropriate to ask. Some are intimate discussions of inner

personal life between people who have know one another for

years, while others are wide open to anyone and full of

continual heated debates on everything from bob dole's age

to whether or not Nietzsche was a Nazi.

For more on the use of mail lists, you can drop by a mirror

site I created out of an article on mail lists for the ASD

newsletter, which include Yahoo directories for Mail Lists

as well as special search machines devoted to them.

Here is an example of a mail list used in dream research

and how to join.


Subscribing, Unsubscribing, and Posting

It's easy to subscribe to JUNG-PSYC. The subscription

address to which you should send a message is :


Subject: Sub me (or anything, it is automatic)

The text of your subscription message should read:

subscribe jung-psyc

(Please note that there's no 'h' at the end of jung-psyc.)

For example, someone with the address of should send the following



Subject: Sub me

in body of text put:

subscribe jung-psyc

For a list of mail lists and how to subscribe, here is a

web address

This includes thorough instructions for subscribing

to, participating in, and unsubscribing from mailing lists.

Email by sending


Subject : Get file guide

In Body : GET LSVGUIDE MEMO (plain text).

Here are a few more sleep research related lists:

SLEEP-L Moderated. A sleep bulletin board for healthcare

workers particularly sleep specialists and researchers.

Available through

subscription. Contact:

PEDSLEEP Moderated. Pediatric sleep list which covers

developmental and clinical sleep-related issues from birth

to adolescence. The list is

open to all medical and education professionals

involved in child-care. Available through subscription.


DENTAL-SLEEP Moderated. Dental sleep list that

provides information for dentists who are working with oral

appliance therapy for snoring

and sleep apnea. Available through subscription. Send

SUBSCRIBE DENTAL-SLEEP Firstname lastname Degree to



Every commercial carrier, AOL, Compuserve, Prodigy, ect

has sig's or special interest groups, each with their own

focus. In addition they pull together different tools -

chat rooms, boards, graphics and more to bring you whole

areas devoted to special topics.


-AOL now has a Bulletin Board, chat room, a weird but cool

dreamworld news and Jermey Talyor online each morning. Use

Keyword and Select HUB. Electric Dreams is available in

the Writers Club Electronic Magazines Library. Research

requests should be directed to Jeremy Taylor at

-Compuserve has Donna Campos each Monday night in New Age B

forum and they now have lots of material online and these

boards are available for posting research. Contact Donna at

-On the MSN network, contact



One of the newest ways to collect data online and conduct

research is to use a Web page that explains your research

and offers visitors a way to immediately engage the

project, fill out forms and gain a preliminary

understanding of the project. The World Wide Web, (WWW or

most often, simple the Web) is the newest and most

explosive aspect of the Internet. The Web allows

individuals and groups to put up graphical, visually

pleasing pages of information, pictures, sounds, response

forms and someday soon, movies and live action


Again, I would like to refer you to the ASD XIII

Conference Index and Education site:

For an example of how this may be accomplished, I would

like to offer two samples.

The first is the

The Quantitative Study of Dreams site by Adam Schneider &

G. William Domhoff

which uses forms and pages to teach the complex system to

participants and students.

The Second is not directly set up for research, but Dr.

Jayne Gackenbach does conduct surveys at the end of each

dream class. See her Introductory Dreamwork Course

If you are interested in putting up a Web site for your

Dream research and are willing to do the coding for the Web

page yourself, Electric Dreams offers space to put your

page up.

You can contact Matthew Parry -

If you need the page coded and designed, DreamGate offers

introductory web pages and for about $300.00 will design

and put up to six pages online for 6 months. For more

information contact Richard Wilkerson

or visit DreamGate at

Final Notes:

Conducting research online is very new and each foray an

experiment in itself. Often simple sending out e-mail to

friends and colleagues will be enough,

but other times even the posting to all the above mentioned

sites may not produce enough data for your project design.

We are all just learning how to best contact one another in

this soup of interconnectivity. However, your research will

be greatly improved if you use the new search engines that

are available. There are several different styles. Some,

like Yahoo, build large data bases and allow you to search

as if wandering around in the stacks at a library. Others

go out and look for keywords and phrases and build reports,

like metacrawler. A useful web site to start with is

as they allow searches from various machines. However,

don't forget that your best contacts will still be people,

and the use of the various networks that mix online and

offline will be more productive than just searching online

or offline alone. For a summary of dream networks, go to

the Novato Center for Dreams

And don't forget that both the DreamNetwork Journal and

the ASD Newsletter have online contact addresses and will

publish your research requests for free in their hard copy


DreamNetwork Bulletin, contact Roberta Ossana

And ASD newsletter, contact Alan Siegel

And finally, again I want to remind researchers who use and

read this article to network back with the online dream

community, telling us new and useful places for posting

research in dreams, statistical considerations in

cyberspace and the final publishing reference for your


-RCW 8-21-96





Hi Everyone,

This month I'm adding a new section to GLOBAL DREAMING NEWS

entitled "Research Requests", which I am hoping can grow to

become a forum for connecting researchers with interested

dreamers to participate in dream-related studies and

projects. If you are conducting research, engaging in a new

project, or just have news you'd like to share with our

online community, I invite you to send me the particulars

at any time via email and/or to post a thread in our

Bulletin Board on the Electric Dreams web site. Don't know

what would be of interest to ED's readers? Well, think of

what interests you -- book reviews, classes, workshops,

dream groups, art exhibits, movies, music -- the ways in

which our dreams can integrate with our life experience is

endlessly exciting!

Peggy Coats, News Director (


DREAM CLASS via YOUR E-MAIL - DreamGate Class #11






















B O O K S - N E W R E L E A S E S




Ready to have a playful adventure with your dreams? Or

perhaps you'd like to share a new online dream exploration

site with your favorite youngster(s) between the ages of

7-12? If so, then the HARROWERS is for you. A unique,

participatory site designed to introduce kids to dreamwork

in a way that is fun and easy to relate to, the Harrowers

is a serialized children's story about kids who visit their

dreamscapes and bring back 'artifacts' (e.g., symbols,

images, feelings) from their dreams.

Rick Smith, creator of the website, when asked how he came

to develop The Harrowers, said: "Chris Goldberg and I sat

down in October one night and tried to figure out how far

we could go with dreams. By the morning, we had come up

with a dozen ideas: machines that filmed dreams as they

were occurring, tape machines that stuck with velcro to the

side of the bed so you wouldn't have to turn on the lamp

and look for a pen to document your dreams, and many

others...all unfeasible. So we started small; we made a

dream journal and a guide to active dreaming. We figured

the best part of dreams is recalling the strange events and

characters and objects from the dreamscape and talking

about them in everyday reality. Then it hit us. There were

no words to solidify these concepts in people's heads. What

were those stories full of things that dreamed about? Where

did we go when we dreamed? And what were we doing when we

engaged in the exercise of actively remembering our dreams

(and maybe even playing an active role in them)? So we

started using the terms harrowing, harrowers, to harrow,

Aldebaran and artifacts to concretize the subjects and

allow us to get down to business. What came out of these

forays into language was an almost tangible world of

dreams. All of the sudden, people were bringing back

artifacts from beyond the wall of sleep. Back from

Aldebaran. What was once simply considered a dream journal

entry was now an artifact.

We've got a lot coming up. The first thing we introduced

after the initial concepts was "The Harrowers".. Because of

the lack of dream material available to children, we

figured a fictionalized account of one harrower named Paige

would inspire kids to start getting involved in Aldebaran.

"The Harrowers" is currently a serialized novel. A little

bit goes up on the web each day. So kids can check back and

see what Paige and all the characters she's meeting are up

to. And they might even see some imagery from their own

dreams. That's because we're encouraging children to submit

dreams to the harrowing page. We're going to weave the

imagery from the dreams into the storyline somehow. So "The

Harrowers" is actually interactive in the end. One of the

neatest things about "The Harrowers" is that readers are

encouraged to submit dream reports. I intend on

incorporating them into the storyline. So not only do kids

get an adventure to read on a daily basis, they also get to

see their own dream imagery woven into the story. "

If you're interested in experiencing The Harrowers, check

out the website at


============ DREAM CLASS via YOUR E-MAIL ===========

DreamGate presents its 11th class on dreams beginning

September 1st. What to people say about this class?

ML: I am really enjoying them. As a research base with a

chatty style but an obvious respect for the material-not to

mention huge amount of ground covered, they can't be beat!

Thank you so much for putting them together.

20 Classes range from ancient dream techniques, move

through classical and modern approaches and end with the

new venues in Cyberspace. $10.00 What a Deal!

For syllabus and registration info, e-mail Richard


============ JUNGIAN PUBLIC PROGRAM IN BOSTON ============

The New England Society of Jungian Analysts is pleased to

announce its Public Program for Fall 1996. All events are

open to the general public and will be held at the C.G.

Jung Institute-Boston.



Seminar by John Haule, Ph.D., IAAP

8 Tuesdays, Oct. 15 - Dec. 3, 8:00 - 10:00PM.

The thirteenth semester of a comprehensive introduction to

the Collected Works of C.G.Jung, considered in rough

chronological order with attention to their place in Jung's

personal development. This semester we will begin

_Mysterium Conjunctionis_ (Vol. 14), Jung's last major book

and the culmination of his work on alchemy. No prior

attendance in this series is required.


Ann Loftus, M.A., IAAP

6 Wednesdays, Oct. 16 - Nov. 20, 7:00 - 9:00PM

This practicum will focus on theoretical and practical

aspects of dream analysis, including the usefulness of

shadow integration. We will work directly on dream

material and participants may also offer dreams for our



Film/Discussion with Warren Erickson, LCSW, IAAP

Friday, September 20, 7:30 - 9:30PM

The BBC film Face to Face" will be presented with an

introduction by Warren Erikson. In this film, Jung talks

about many issues including his views of the archetypal

structure of the human psyche, his relationship with Freud,

and the spiritual dimension. The film provides an

opportunity to hear directly from one of the most profound

thinkers about psyche in the 20th century. Discussion will



Workshop by Michael Conforti, Ph.D., IAAP

Saturday, October 5, 10:00AM - 4:00PM

One of Jung's greatest discoveries was the presence of

self-organizing tendencies in the psyche. Manifested in

dreams, symptoms, and other symbolic forms, Jung realized

that the psyche continually introduces greater degrees of

meaning and complexity into the life process. He went on

to suggest that much of life represents an unfolding of

these archetypal, ordering processes into matter, where

they then assume a recognizable form in both the internal

and external worlds.



Lecture by Edward Bruce Bynum, Ph.D.

Friday, October 18, 8:00 - 10:00PM

The rise and unfoldment of human consciousness and the dawn

of civilization are inextricably linked. The source of our

primordial images, dreams, and intimate family dynamics is

also the ground out of which these archetypal images have

arisen. This presentation will trace the genetic,

anthropological and historical evidence of these

developments in order to demonstrate that the universal

archetypes are embedded in the ancestral African memory

that is a living part and dynamic of every human being



Workshop by Jacqueline Schectman, LICSW, IAAP

Saturday, October 26, 10:00AM - 4:00PM

As therapists, we are presented with a wealth of visual

images the moment our patients enter the room. But what

would we see if we sat in the dark (or behind the couch)?

What of the pictures that we and our patients paint with

words? Every hour has its own language, a core image

presented in a dream, a fantasy, a description of the

traffic on the street. If we can tune our ears to the

sound and shape of words, play with and illuminate the

pictures that they paint, we can bring the image alive in

the room to yield up its many-layered nuances,

associations, and meanings.


Workshop by Jane Pretat, M.S., IAAP

Saturday, November 16, 10:00AM - 4:00PM

Introversion/Extroversion, Intuition/Sensation,

Feeling/Thinking. Can understanding these concepts help us

interact more consciously both with our significant others

and with our own life in psyche? Using fairy tales and

symbolic material, this one day workshop will attempt to

explore in some depth the symbolism of Jung's typology, its

strengths and weaknesses and how it might be useful in our

human interactions as we approach the new millennium.


Lecture by Mariann Burke, IAAP

Friday, December 6, 8:00 - 10:00PM

The first of three sessions on the elements, this lecture

will introduce symbolism of the elements drawn from alchemy

and myth and related to our psychic birth and growth.

Later workshops will be offered on The Elements, The Body,

Body Symptoms, and The Self.

Lectures: $15. Seminars and Workshops: $75 - $175

For more information about registration or other Institute

programs, please contact:

C.G. Jung Institute-Boston

283 Commonwealth Avenue

Boston, MA 02115

(617) 267-5984


=========== AMONG ALL THESE DREAMERS ================

A new book, "Among All These Dreamers: Essays on Dreaming

and Modern Society" has just been released by SUNY. Dr.

Kelly Bulkeley, author of "The Wilderness of Dreams:

Exploring the Religious Meanings of Dreams in Modern

Western Culture" is the editor of this exciting and thought

provoking multidisciplinary volume which "examines the

cultural and social relevance of dream studies, looking at

various ways that the field can contribute to the

resolution of the modern West's most troubling social

issues. The essays offer novel insights on education,

sexual abuse, ecology, crime, race, gender,religion,

politics, death, and cross-cultural conflict. The

contributors argue that the study of dreams can provide

valuable resources to regain a vibrant, trustworthy sense

of moral and spiritual orientation in life. Contributors

include Jayne Gackenbach, Jeremy Taylor, Carol Schreier

Rupprecht, Wendy Doniger, and Johanna King." SUNY Press

can be contacted for orders at 1-800-666-2211.


Unlocking the Secrets of Your Dreams is a noncredit

introductory course that is delivered on the World Wide

Web. The course consists of five lessons which teach you

to interpret and work with your own dreams, both alone

and in an electronic group session. Each lesson is

accompanied by an assignment where you will put what you

have learned into practice, and answer a questionnaire

about your dream experiences. You will receive feedback

on the completed assignment the following week.

Throughout the course you will have access to a student

bulletin board where you can share your ideas and

impressions about dreams with others enrolled in the class

as well as an active dialogue with the

author/instructor, Jayne Gackenbach.

Here are some comments from students who have taken the

course: I think this must be an Herculean effort on your

part, and it is appreciated. I am finding it interesting

and challenging. As with the rest of your feedback, I

find it FASCINATING and am already imagining ways to

adjust my clinical work from it's influence. Everthing

looks great! Very nice graphics - touches that part of

dreaming that is marvelous and wonderful. I find your

comments and students' feedback help me to understand

better. Once a path of communication is established, who

knows where it can lead and that's exciting, if a little


The course start dates are Sept. 9, 1996 and Oct. 28, 1996.

More information about the course and the instructor is

available at:

Jayne Gackenbach, Ph.D. e-mail: #5; 4505 - 102 Avenue

phone (403)461-3219 Edmonton, Alberta T6A OM8 Canada

fax: 497-5308 (mark my attention)

Internet Dream Course:

Association for the Study of Dreams Home Page:

====== ALCHEMICAL DREAMWORK ====================

Dream Studies Program at Twin Lakes College of the Healing

Arts offers an in-depth training in dreamwork for both

personal and professional applications. The 200 hour

program is designed as a progressive multi-level training

that will prepare students to work professionally with

dreams using a dream interview method. This approach

facilitates access to the transformative potential of the

dream state. It respects the many ways in which various

cultures utilize dreamwork as a valuable resource for

physical recovery, emotional and mental balancing, as well

as spiritual exploration and guidance. Our client centered

model of training also respects the unique aspects of each

dream and dreamer. A Dream Studies Certificate will be

awarded upon the successful completion of this program.

The Dream Studies Program is for: personal exploration of

dreams; people who want a professional practice in

dreamwork; professionals who want to integrate dreamwork

into another practice of the healing or educational arts -

such as body work, counseling, acupuncture, hypnosis,

teaching, aromatherapy, chiropractic, nursing, and

traditional western medicine. The course runs from

September 17, 1996 - May 6, 1997. Level 1: Personal

Dreamwork, Tues. 9 am - 12 noon, Sept.17 - Nov.26 Cost is


For more information, contact: Twin Lakes College of the

Healing Arts, 1210 Brommer St., Santa Cruz, CA 95062.

(408) 476-2152.


Kathleen Sullivan, long-time dreamworker and host of a

weekly radio show, "Dreams, Another Way of Knowing", will

be opening two new dream groups in the Santa Cruz area in

September. These on-going groups will meet every other

week for two hours per session. One group will meet

Thursday evenings, the other Friday mornings. Call

408)372-8534 or email if interested.

============ SEEING DREAMS IN A NEW LIGHT =================

Alive & Well, Institute of Conscious BodyWork, is pleased

to present a three day-workshop with Steven R. Vazquez

September 13-14-15 entitled "Seeing Dreams in a New

Light". This workshop will teach students how to use

colored light projected into the eyes to deepen

understanding of shadow elements in dreams; to use strobe

light stimulation to achieve desired brainwave states; to

use colored light stimulation to elicit underlying

emotional issues and to use the transpersonal dimension of

dreams to acquire answers and resolutions to problems.

Steven Vazquez, Ph.D., is a prominent workshop leader and a

licensed professional counselor and marriage and family

therapist. He has pioneered the use of brief strobic phot

stimulation for accelerated in-depth Mind-Body work. His

development of confluent somatic therapy, incorporating

bionergy work with psychology delivers rapid

results-oriented, cost-effective methods of treatment with

compassion and high ethical standards.

For more information, contact ALIVE & WELL, Institute of

Conscious BodyWork, Inc., 100 Shaw Drive, San Anselmo, CA



LIFE ======

Join Robert Moss, author, shamanic counselor, and lifelong

dream explorer, for a week-long intensive workshop in the

skills of conscious dreaming: dream reentry, shared

dreaming, dream enactment and shamanic sould flight to the

sources of insight, creativity and healing September 29 -

October 4, 1996 at Esalen Institute, in Big Sur,


Among Native Americans, the shaman is widely known as 'one

who dreams'. The gifts of dreaming come in many ways:

through the spontaneous wisdom of sleep-dreams, through

creative incubation, through conscious dreaming in a

relaxed state, through shamanic soul-flight to other

worlds and times -- and by paying attention to the

dream-like symbols and synchronicities of waking life.

In this workshop, dreamers are aided by drumming, guided

visualization and partner exercises to experiment with

shape-shifting, shared dreaming, folding ime, scouting

possible futures and other life experiences.

For more information, contact Esalen Institute at 408)

667-3005 or FAX 408) 667.2724.

============= HILLMAN TO VISIT MONTANA ==================

Dr. James Hillman, noted dream pioneer and researcher, will

be visiting Bozeman, Montana for a six hour seminar,

September 29th from 9am until 4pm at Lindley Park Center.

He will be featuring material from his new book "The

Soul's Code: Character, Calling and Fate". Although it is

not entirely specific to dreams,Hillman is so filled with

imagination and dream content that it all blends together.

The seminar is called "The Acorn Theory and the Bad Seed:

Politics and Mysteries in Childhood Disorders". Attendees

can receive up to six hours of professional credit and the

cost is $85.00. Space will be limited to 85 people. Hillman

says the following to describe the day: This workshop has

three aims: to explore childhood disorders as signs of

destiny; to review current thinking about psychopathy and

criminality; to look for a "third" way out of the

Nature/Nurture [genetics vs environment] controversy.We

shall be stretched between politics and religion, and we

shall also question how we imagine our personal biography.

For more information, contact

< >


Look for an interview with Jesse and Brave New World's 21

Questions On September 2nd.

On Monday, Sept. 23 at 9:00 pm EDT, I'll be a guest

speaker for Donna Campos's Dream Studio show on CompuServ.

If you've got CompuServ, drop by and

chat with me!

I'll be at the Underground Press Conference-Independent

Comics Exposition October 12th 10 AM-5PM at the Chicago

Cultural Center. Come have your dream

sketched or lurk near my table, sending me psychic




For those of you who are subscribers, Dr. Strange reports

that Microsoft Network (MSN) has at least two or three

weekly chats on dreams, and a number of bulletin boards

and libraries with information on dreams, OBEs, astral

travel, etc. Once you get into MSN, right click your mouse

on the little icon on the lower right corner of your

screen, then pick Go to ... . Use the Go to word

AlienChat to access the chat, and AlienDream to access the

BBS and Lucid Dreamer's Library. Use AlienPara to check

out the whole paranormal section of the Alien and UFO

Forum. MSN has a much more limited web site that anyone

can access. According to MSN management, they plan to make

all of MSN accessible from the Web in the Fall.

Dr. Strange hosts Paranormal Chat on MSN ) Thursdays from

7-9 PM PDT in the Alien Chat room (Go to word

...AlienChat) where topics often discussed include lucid

dreams, OBEs, and other paranormal subjects. Dr. Strange

has also posted a number of Handouts on lucid dreams and

related subjects in the Lucid Dreamers Library (Go to word

... AlienDreamL) on MSN.

For more information, contact:





PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION ===================================

I'm conducting a research project on dreams that have

contents relating to the 1996 Presidential Election. In

the process, I'm asking for people's help in gathering a

collection of dream samples. Have you had any dreams in


1) Bill Clinton, Bob Dole, or Ross Perot appears?

2) Some other political figure appears (e.g., Newt

Gingrich, Hillary Rodham Clinton, Pat Buchanan)?

3) A major political theme or issue from the campaign

appears (e.g., abortion, taxes, welfare, the


If you've had any dreams with these contents, I'd really

enjoy hearing about them. Please include the date of each

dream and any thoughts, feelings, or memories you have in

connection with it. All information you share with me will

be used with total confidentiality. If you like, I'd be

happy to send you a summary of the project's findings after

the election.


Kelly Bulkeley, Ph.D.

226 Amherst Ave.

Kensington, CA 94708

510-528-0226 (o,fax)

P.S. Although the focus of my research is on the 1996

election, I'd also appreciate hearing any dreams you've had

about past U.S. Presidents (e.g., Ronald Reagan, John F.






by participating in a study comparing the formal and

symbolic imagery appearing in incubated dreams and shamanic


Be an historically significant part of this ground-breaking

study to promote a shift in consciousness that may allow us

to tap more easily into those dimensions with which until

now mainly mystics and shamans have reported regular


=0= What will participation involve? =0=

1. completing three assessments and a short-answer

questionnaire to be used as participant descriptors in the

study (1 1/2 hrs);

2. incubating the dream; recording it;

3. discussing the dream description later on for 15-20

minutes to ensure full researcher understanding;

4. rating a packet of 4 shamanic journey descriptions

according to how well each one corresponds to the theme,

imagery, and mood of your incubated dream; and possibly

5. a tape-recorded phone interview of approximately one

hour in length should your dream and its corresponding

journey be selected for deeper comparison due to their

degree of congruence.


It is estimated that items 1-4 require a total

commitment of 3 hours, and all can be done in your own

home. Participation in #5 will require 1 additional hour,

a 90-minute tape and use of a taperecorder at your end of

the phone conversation.

NOTE: Willingness to participate in all five parts of the

study is necessary.


For the protection of your privacy, all information

received from you will be kept confidential, and your

identity protected.





=0= How can I volunteer? =0=

I greatly appreciate your interest in my study and your

willingness to share your precious time, energy, personal

dream experiences and insights with me.

Please detach this panel from the rest of the brochure,

fill in the requested information, and mail it poste haste

to receive further information.




City zip

phone/fax ( )

* I ve recorded my dreams yr mo.

* I have participated in a dream group

regularly for yr. mo.


the late-September research study

___related future research


will be important in the astrological extension to my

transpersonal research methodology. [Exact time is key to

an accurate analysis; so please make every effort to get

this as soon

as possible, if you need to leave it blank.]


mo. day yr. time am pm

City state

(or country)

=0= As a dream participant you will =0=

* gain personal insights from your incubated dream;

* learn a shamanic journeyer s experiences

concerning your dream question;

* receive a summary of the patterns and conclusions

drawn from combined data from all participants, at the

completion of the study.

=0= Other advantages of participating in this research? =0=

It is hoped that discoveries made through this research

will create greater awareness, within both the scientific

community and our society in general, of the importance and

contribution to our lives of both Dreamwork and Shamanic

Journeywork, and *of Consciousness and Awareness, as key

players in the manifestation, integration, and

transformation of both our Universe and Life World.*

=0= About the Researcher =0=

CHARMAINE SUNGY is a doctoral student in her dissertation

year at the Institute of Transpersonal Psychology. Her

focus is on *archetypal structures of the Unconscious* as

they manifest through the *imagery* of personality type,

astrology, shamanic work, and dreams in the service of

health and wholeness. HER DISSERTATION will explore the

relationship between the imagery and symbols that dreamers

experience in their incubated dream and those that appear

in an intentionally-related shamanic journey of another


Her study asks, to what degree are features of the dream

landscape and the dreamer s experiences in that landscape

replicable through another altered state way-of-knowing,

such as shamanic journey?

Charmaine Sungy was drawn to doing _shamanic work_ through

a series of shocking and synchronistic initiatory peak

experiences that transformed her life and set her on the

shamanic path of spiritual seeking and healing seven years

ago. It was through her shamanic work that she was led to

study astrology and to enter the Ph.D. program in

Transpersonal Psychology at ITP, where she has done

dreamwork with Jeremy Taylor during the past three years.

Previously, Charmaine taught in inner-city high schools

for 21 years in visual arts, literature, reading and

Spanish. Other personas dancer, poet, gardener,

hypnotherapist, astrologer.

*Like Alice through the looking-glass*


into symbolic dimensions reflections that of who

mirror we are TRANSPERSONAL PSYCHOLOGY, which embraces

spirituality as a basic characteristic of both humanity and

Universal Order in general, will become more clearly

understood and brought to

greater prominence within the culture through the topic as

well as the approach of this research.

_Holography _--until now only recognized by mystics,

shamans, Jungian depth psychology, and esoteric

transpersonal modes of being--is coming to be seen as the

actual way phenomena are sensed or made known to us.

The symbol or metaphoric experience is the space-moment

within which the archetypal elements emerge across the

threshold between formless and formed realities into their

first perceivable structure as *archetypal pre-thought form


B O O K S - N E W R E L E A S E S

_Stop Sleeping Through Your Dreams: A Guide to Awakening

consicousness During Sleep_ By Charles McPhee

Assistance in becoming a conscious participant is extended

from the book to the Net, as Charles is encouraging those

who have lucid dreams to write to him. Visit:

This is to let you know that _Electirc Dreams_ is listed in

a new book, _Surgery Electives: What to Know Before the

Doctor Operates, A Guide for Those Considering Elective

Surgery_, 2nd Edition, by John McCabe.

The 416-page book includes a research section containing

Internet and E-mail access to hundreds of health-related

organizations, associations, support groups, and government

agencies. It also includes references to holistic health


Surgery Electives can be ordered through your local

bookstore. It can also be purchased through mail order by

sending $19.95 and $3 postage to Carmania Books, PO Box

1272, Santa Monica, CA 90406-1272.




New participatory web site for kids: THE HARROWERS at

<>. (see the article

in GLOBAL DREAMING NEWS for more information)

DreamLink Update

If you haven't visited DreamLink in the last few weeks

you're see some changes -

1. Addition of DreamWheel Section - an area where one dream

is looked at with the dreamer responding to questions and

queries sent by people that need more information before

they submit a translation.

2. Key Word Search - the JOURNAL section with all the

dreams and translations can now be searched for specific

topics to respond to or just view

3. Dream Chich - A section has been added to just ask

questions you have about dreams or to respond to questions

posted - a bbs of the Dreamworld.

Linton for DreamLink

ASD Homepage Update - conversation!

Stop by the ASD bulletin board and join in conversations on

the study of dreams, color and dreams, dream interpretation

issues, references and bibliographies on dreams and many

other topics.

Also, be sure to check out the ASD Art Gallery while you

are there and see a wonderful gallery of dream inspired


Big Dream Eric W. Fitz

Big Dream is both an experiment in literary criticism and a

fiction. The project begins with an actual dream of mine,

represented in fragments, that move in both a temporally

linear and crossing manner. Small parts of each fragment

are given brief Freudian analyses, and are interpreted

symbolically. These symbols are then abstracted into the

driving forces for the multivocal fiction.





August 31

-September 2 Shamanism & Healing Conference - Dream

Reentry Santa Sabina Center, Dominican

College, San Rafael, CA Contact:

Ruth-Inge Heinze, Ph.D., 2321 Russell

Street. #3A, Berkeley, CA 94705-1959.

(510) 849-3791.

September 7th "The Practice of Dream Reentry Healing":

9:30AM - 5:00PM Fred Olsen in

Novato, CA & Berkeley see:

Sept. 9, 1996 and On the Internet

Oct. 28, 1996 Introductory Dreamwork Course

Jayne Gackenbach, Ph.D.

Sept 13-15, 1996 USA: San Anselmo, California

Seeing Dreams in a New Light

Alive & Well, 100 Shaw Drive

San Anselmo, CA 94960

Sept. 17, 1996 USA: Santa Cruz, California

Alchemical Dream Work

Twin Lakes College

Contact: Gina Pearlin


20 Sept USA: Concord, MA

"Sacred Dreams in World Religions and

Personal Experience" - Talk and Group

Discussion The Dreamwheel, 191 Sudbury

Road Call (508)369-2634 to register

Sept 23, 1996 NET: Jesse Reklaw on DreamStudio

On Monday, Sept. 23 at 9:00

pm EDT, Jesse will be a guest

speaker for Donna Campos's Dream

Studio show on CompuServ.

Sept 29, 1996 USA: Bozeman, Montanta

James Hillman Workshop, 9am-4pm

Lindley Park Center


< >

Oct 12, 1996 USA: Menlo Park, California

Introduction to Dreamwork Seminar

Two Sisters Bookstore, 605

Cambridge 10:00 am - Noon

Contact: <>

Oct. 12, 1996 US: Chicago Jesse Reklaw: at the

Underground Press Conference-

Independent Comics Exposition

Chicago Cultural Center




Welcome to the Dreams section of ELECTRIC DREAMS. We

requested FIRST DREAMS for this issue, and have a full

harvest of dreams willingly shared with our community. I

guess it is not a surprise that these first dreams share

characteristics of conciseness, and vividness of images.

There are many nightmare type experiences described. The

dream had to be strong enough to leave a lasting impression

on the dreamers.

An interesting issue came up as to the definition of a

FIRST DREAM. The original intention and most widely

understood meaning was the earliest dream recalled in ones

life. However, some people could identify a FIRST


impression and wondered if that would qualify. Well, we

are still small enough to publish all submissions and so we

are doing.

The meaning of some of those dreams have become clear to

some of the dreamers while many still marvel at what they

could possibly mean. Mystery and wonder await those who

venture into the inner reality of dreams. Netizens of the

Web, for your viewing pleasure, emotional growth,

intellectual stimulation and spiritual nourishment, the

Dreamorama of ED 3.7 follows.

As always thanks to the contributors, both dreamers and

commentators. For the benefit of new readers, I would like

to repeat the information cited elsewhere in our

publication that the views of our commentators are personal

views and not intended as professional advice or

psychotherapy. We believe that only the dreamer can

determine what the dream means for the dreamer. Sharing a

journey of discovery, we can all gain much insight into our

own lives from the dreams and observations of others.

Offered dreams are submitted under code names for the most

part, unless a contributor wants direct feedback and

specifically requests their real name or email addresses be

used. For privacy and security reasons, we recommend using

a code name for your submissions.




Commentary on Alien Taste Test by SkyeT (960803)







1st Dream: Choices by BobK

1st Dream "The Hard Step by Ladystrange


1st Dream: Moon Mice by Richard

Commentary: 1st Dream Moon Mice (960804) by Narcissus

Almost 1st Dream: Melting Sally by Dreambat

Commentary on "Melting Sally" (960813) by Narcissus


1st Dream: Candi's first dream- Insects! by Candi

1st Dream "Fun House & Not so Fun House" by Renee

1st Dream: "Holy Kidnaping!" by India [Batman s Penguin]

1st Dream: "The Maze" -Anonymous

1st Dream: "The Overstuffed Chair" by Dee Dee

1st Dream "Tumbling Boxes" by Martin

1st Dream: "window" by Melissa [Midieval Europe]


1st Dream: my first dream by mermaid

1st Dream: "Underground Amusements" by Andy




Dream: Monkey Business by Nutcracker (960711)

Dream: Snakes by JRA (960816)


Dream: More Pez Finds by Nutcracker (960709)


Dream: Sculptor Dream by GSD (960819)


Dream: Dreamsharing by Nutcracker (960705)


Dream: At The Kennedy s by Nutcracker (960713)

(The Kennedy Clan)

Dream: Dream#9" by Sprock (960805) (John Lennon)


Dream: Parallel Universe by Nutcracker ((960709)


Dream: "Bocca de Verita" by India (960809)

Dream: "Get to the Airport!" by Blair (960715)

Dream: King Arthur s Court by Nutcracker (960712)

Dream: Selfish by Nutcracker (960702)

Dream: The Trip by Nutcracker (960706)


Dream: dreams of sunny last month...this month by LorD

Commentary on Dream questions (96-07-28) by Narcissus


Dream: NO SUN by Cathv (960725) revisited

Commentary/ Part 2 by Bob K on No Sun


Dream: I left my Pablum, In San Fran-cisco"

by Martski(960810)

Dream:" Necrophilia" by Nutcracker(960808)

Commentary on " Necrophilia" (960808) by Narcissus


Dream: Electric Dreams by Nutcracker (960704)

Dream: The Unknown Basement by BobK (960720)


Dream: Dying Dog & TWA 800" by Michelle K (960716)

Dream: Message From Mom & Uncles Death by Michelle K


Dream: Neighbors and Cancer by Michelle K (960728)


Dream: Dream #9" by Sprock (960805) [John Lennon]

Dream: "Dancing with the Ghost of the Turntable"

by Blair (960514)

Dream: "I d Rather Play my Bass than Get Married"

by Blair (960420)

Dream: Thunder in The Cupboard by Nutcracker (960713)


Commentary on "Tornado Dreams" by Narcissus (960730)


Dream: "Chen & I" by Chesko (960819)

Dream: Of Trees Possessed by Nutcracker (960721)











Commentary on Alien Taste Test (96-08-03) by SkyeT

** "Alien Taste Test" by BR (960627 by JR)

I dreamed that I was walking through a field at daytime,

with a friend. As I kept walking, I noticed there was an

alien craft near me. It was saucer-shaped, but something

was terribly wrong. The top of the spacecraft had been

removed, and only the bottom portion of the craft remained.

Piled throughout the craft there were hundreds of flattened

"greys" alien carcasses. Their skin somehow turned

transparent and yellow. I picked up an alien and bit into





The flattened're not the only one who has seen

them. Whitley Strieber saw them, "stacked like cord wood,"

and I've seen a single one, head still retaining it's

shape, but the body flattened like a large hand puppet. In

other words, they may not have been corpses, but costumes.

imitation lemon pie filling = something artificial,

manufactured, not what it purports to be.

Let's incubate some dreams to discover what they Greys

*really* are! :)

Skye T

"...It has been speculated that of all groups scientists

and engineers might be the most devastated by the discovery

of relatively superior creatures, since these professions

are most clearly associated with the mastery of nature,

rather than with the understanding and expression of man.

Brookings Institute for NASA, 4/18/61




**1st Dream: "The Hard Step by Ladystrange

(from posting on alt.dreams)

The first dream I remember...I was about 2 or 3...I dreamed

I was walking in my house and because I was so young it was

hard I was still learning how. I dreamed I walked into our

den which was a step down den...I remember it was

hard..that step down. all I remember...sorry

**1st Dream: Choices by BobK

My earliest recollection is finding myself in a cave. I

have no idea of my age or physical condition. All I know

is that I am alone. I have reached the end of the cave

and there are several closed doors (five?) from which I

must choose my next path. There is a sense of finality

about the choice. Once I go through the door, I seem to

know that it will not be possible to turn back. I will be

embarked on a path of no return. How will I make my choice?


**1st Dream: "Moon Mice" by Richard

I am dreaming that I can't sleep. I get up and find my

mother in the living-room. She is standing in the moonlight

beside the sleigh-bed. She is wearing a diaphanous

nightgown and matching robe. When I tell her I can't sleep

(or did I have to tell her?) she tells me the following


Once upon a time there were these moon mice that came

to earth. The sun was too bright for them and travel in the

sewers during the daytime.

Image: A mouse face like creature with wheels instead

of legs rolling down a sewer tube. From the back they look

like the back of a round wind-up alarm clock.

At night they would come out and gather around in a

circle and wait to see the moon (whom they worshiped).

But one night it was foggy and the when the mice came

out they were sad because they couldn't see the moon. And

so, on that night, with all the moon mice gathered in a

circle, the moon came down to them.

== Commentary on Richards Moon Mice by Narcissus

[** "Moon Mice" by Richard] > >

I am dreaming that I can't sleep. I get up and find my

> mother in the living-room. She is standing in the

moonlight > beside the sleigh-bed. She is wearing a

diaphanous nightgown and > matching robe. When I tell her I

can't sleep (or did I > have to tell her?) she tells me the

following story.

In my dream, the moon is the home of the goddess. To me, a

sleigh-bed is a slay-bed: a place of creation, death, and

transformation. Freud lives in me, so the images space to

my Oedipal desires.

> Once upon a time there were these moon mice that came

to > earth. The sun was too bright for them and travel in

the sewers > during the daytime.

In my dream, the sun god is male. The sun was too bright

for the moon mice because they were not ready for the

world of men. The sewers were the birth canals and my own

mixed feels about bathroom functions and sexuality.

> Image: A mouse face like creature with wheels

instead of legs rolling > down a sewer tube. From the back

they look like the > back of a round wind-up alarm clock.

As a child I loved to play w/ miniature cars. For a long

time, advertising agencies have been getting rich on the

relationship between cars and male sexuality. At this age,

sex seems more mechanical the biological. I don't

understand it, am a bit afraid of it, and use the image to

get some distance from my desires. The clock reminds me

that in time, I will have a better understanding.

> At night they would come out and gather around in a

circle and > wait to see the moon (whom they worshiped).

The mice agree w/ me about mother moon, the goddess.

> But one night it was foggy and the when the mice came

out they > were sad because they couldn't see the moon. And

so, on that > night, with all the moon mice gathered in a

circle, the > moon came down to them.

The fog could be my tears (or my bed wetting) and the moon,

the mother whom I love and worship, comes down to my

level. By gathering in a circle, the sacred shape of the

feminine, I draw the energy of the goddess to me.

I hope these thoughts are of use to you.


** Almost 1st Dream: Melting Sally by Dreambat

That Necrophilia dream stimulated an old, old memory of

mine and I recalled an early dream I had forgotten about.

Childhood dream (4-5yrs old)

Melting Sally. by DreamBat

I'm out playing by the sidewalk when a little girl

about my age comes by. She had been shopping and has a bag

of groceries. I spill some water on her and she melts!

Nothing is left but the groceries. I hear her mother

calling from the doorway a couple of houses away "Sally,

Sallllllll-yyyyyyy" I feel really guilty and wretched and

have no idea how to deal with this.

==Commentary on "Melting Sally" (96-08-13) by Narcissus

I'm fascinated by the connection between "Melting Sally"

and "Necrophilia." Why did one stimulate memory of the

other? Is there another sex/death/food connection here?

I feel a little handicapped here by not knowing whether

DreamBat is male or female. Therefore I will try this

both ways.

If DreamBat is female, then Sally is my other self. In my

household, spilling water and the other consequences of

the natural clumsiness of childhood were always major

offenses. I can't remember ever being sent to my room w/o

dinner, but I lost the nourishment of parental approval

when I had spills.

The spills in this context would also be bathroom

accidents, depending on how good was the bladder control

of the dreamer. This could even be about wetting the bed.

If DreamBat is male, then one of the few exclusive joys us

guys still have is the ability to write our initials in

the snow. I would see the spill and the water as having a

stronger sexual element than if DreamBat was a girl.

Also, I can't help but think of the melting wicked witch in

the Wizard of Oz. Dorothy accidentally poured water on the

witch. Maybe the dreamer is waiting for all those around

her to congratulate her for her accident.

If this were my dream, I would try to be Sally. Get a

sense of who I am and what it feels like to melt. I

suspect it would be a freeing experience.

I hope these thoughts are of use to you.



**1st Dream: Candi's first dream- Insects!

Posted by Candi on August 02, 1996 at 01:10:27:

My first remembered dream was a nightmare that I probably

only remember because my parents had to point out to me

that it wasn't real. I guess I was seven or less... In the

dream I got up and was headed for the bathroom when I

stepped on some large insect and crushed it. When I jumped

away from it I landed on another one. I woke and charged

into my parents' room, apparently trying to avoid the floor

altogether. I wouldn't go into my room in the morning until

it had been searched thoroughly for bugs.

**1st Dream: "Fun House & Not so Fun House " by Renee

(from posting on alt.dreams)

The first dream I remember was a re-occurring nightmare.

I've got it for aboutfour or five times and each time I was

ill the day after (probably the fever causing this dream).

It has also been the ONLY re-occurring dream I ever had.

(Between 4th - 10th year)

The first part of the dream: It was like a LSD-trip: I was

with my head in a tunnel-like surrounding (not dark, not

light either) and first money (especially coins) were

flying by my head. I could not grab them. Then I heard

laughter and then heads were passing my head with great

speed. The were laughing at me, in an extreme way. (*note:

I had it bad at school then, children used to tease and

torment me terribly*)

The second part of the (same!) dream: I was LITTLE RED

RIDINGHOOD [YES, don't laugh! :)] I was standing in the

forest with my basket and looking at a white house. That

house was covered with ... eh... something like a threat

(woollen or cotton). It looked like you wrap something up

with wool and then you enlarge it to 'house'-sizes. On the

second floor was my brother, trapped in that house. I can

even see myself (as little red ridinghood) standing

through the eyes of my brother. All I can think off, is

that I must save him and will save him (because he's so

important to me), but that it was very difficult.

Thank god I don't have many nightmares, but this was really

a scary one! After the first couple o' times I knew, when

waking up, that I was ill, even before my body woke up and

told me I was right. For me it's really amazing;

remembering this dream in so much details. Let me know what

you think of it!

** 1st Dream: "Holy Kidnaping! by India

(from posting on alt.dreams)

The first dream I can remember:

I dreamt that the Penguin from the Batman television show

had kidnaped me and was holding me hostage at an orange

motel in Jersey City, New Jersey. He was being rather nice

to me, i.e., letting me have whatever snacks I wanted,

watch whatever t.v. I wanted, and giving me tons of toys,

but I was very upset because I missed my parents.

1st Dream: The Maze -Anonymous

The first dream that I recall is being in the middle of a


I was able to view the maze and my position in it from a

bird's eye view. As a result of the viewpoint, the top of

my head appeared as a round circle or dot. I was right

smack in the middle of this maze and could see numerous

other dots (or people) in various parts of the maze.

Every few seconds all the dots would move in unison toward

me. It seemed to be like there was a pulse and with every

pulse the dots would move in closer. This continued and

continued until the dots were quite close to me. At that

point, I would wake up startled and scared. I had this

dream two other times as a child, but never again. Thank

God! This was by far the scariest dream I ever had or

least the most scared I every felt.


**1st Dream: The Overstuffed Chair by Dee Dee

The first dream I remember having centered around a large,

over-stuffed chair, the type that was popular in the late

1940s - very soft, plush, and comfortable. As inviting as

it looked, the sensation I experienced in the dream was

anything but pleasant, in fact, it was my first nightmare.

I don't know what that chair represented, but it was a

frequent dream until I was about 8 yrs. old, and I always

woke up very frightened.

"Dee Dee"

**1st Dream: " Tumbling Boxes"

(from posting on alt.dreams)

Childhood dreams are strange, and the nightmares

especially scary. For the most part, I can't remember mine

(except fragments of brief images, sounds and emotions)

Easily, the most horrid one sticks out, as I still

have this dream today.

I'm standing in a huge, shadowy room. There are

boxes, wall to wall and stacked to the ceiling. I'm

dwarfed by them. I feel intimidated in the extreme. There

is a noise like static, or running water. The sound fills

me with a jitter uneasiness. The stacks of boxes start to

sway slightly, teetering just a little.

Suddenly, the static-like noise becomes a roar. This

sound is undescribable, I don't know of any comparison.

Maybe if you took the soft hum of a fan and amplified it to

unbearable levels. Even thinking about it makes me uneasy.

The boxes start to fall over me like some ghastly wave. I

wake up screaming.

...ahh childhood memories


**1st Dream: "Window" by Melissa

the first dream that I can remember is what I have always

believed to be a Dream into a past-life experience. I had

the dream when I was 4 or 5 yrs old. the dream was/is quite

vivid, I can still clearly see it in my mind after all

these years.

the setting was medieval europe.i am fleeing a castle in

the nite w/ two other women I can see and others I cannot

see.the castle is on fire or being "stormed"(this part has

never been clear to me)we (I and the other two women) are

VERY frightened.bats are flying everywhere(I worried they

would get in my hair) as we attempt to flee into the

forest.the feeling was that I was a "servant" of one of the

other women.i was leading the group out of the castle and

trying to figure out how to get everyone away safely.

this is the part of the dream that has always stayed w/

me.the images of the womens bodies,as well as my own were

very clear,color of the clothes,etc.,but the faces were two interesting asides- a)I did not watch tv as a

youngster,other than the nightly news w/ my parents.i do

not believe this dream was induced by an experience outside

myself,but from within.i only dreamed this particular dream

once(I have another ,set in an English boarding school or

orphanage,turn of the century or a little later,that I have

had often)yet the feeling about this dream has always been

very strong. b)8 years ago,i had a woman working for me

named tam.she and I had to drive to miami together from key

west(about 3 hours)we were talking about matters of the

spirit and dreaming.the conversation was quite intensive as

I was relating the boarding school dream to her and

discussing the death dream I had

age 13(for another post!)as I started to tell her about

the above dream-she suddenly "saw" it-as if she were

there.i believe she was one of the two women.the feeling

that came over both of us in that moment was a total sense

of connectedness. she described me in the dream(I had not

given her any details,other than fleeing the castle in the

nite)down to the color of my dress.i am still waiting for

the third to appear in my life.

hope this is of interest to you.

kindest regards,melissa


**1st Dream: my first dream by mermaid (960808)

Hi everyone

This children and dreams theme is taking off; especially in

Electric Dreams 3#6.

Is Mr Sheen a furniture polishing product in the US too?

Anyway the cartoon "Mr Sheen" used to start off my dreams

when I was about 2 or three (I remember my brother's cot

being in the corner of the room and he is about a year

younger than I).

Mr Sheen would appear in the top left corner of my "dream

frame", put together the "slide screen" and my mind would

act as the slide projector from which I'd dream.

Quite often I'd have flying dreams; I would also converse

with dolls and other toys and animals - such as cats, dogs

and magpies in the neighboring trees. I would also choose

the thrill of deciding that the wind making tree branches

scratch on bay window was a "monster".

Most dreams would take place in familiar settings -

especially my back yard at the time.

Even now, I can go back and somehow "float' from room to

room of that house. The white sofa as you came in the door;

a trunk (later used on the voyage to England) in another

corner. The white bath in the bathroom, in which we could

splash happily and were sometimes allowed to play with a

silver fish on a chain that belonged to Mum.


**1st Dream: " Underground Amusements" by Andy

(from posting on alt.dreams)

The first dream I remember is being in an underground

amusement park riding the roller coaster. I was about 4.




**Dream: Monkey Business by Nutcracker (960711)

I was in charge of a rather large group of monkeys. I

don't know if it was research related or zoo related. I

was putting three of the smaller ones back in 'the room'

(it wasn't a cage, but a room with a narrow wooden or metal

door that was sort of medieval looking). All I can

remember about the inside of the room is that there were

monkeys stacked floor to ceiling. There were three metal

rods and the monkeys were placed one on top the other

inside the three rods. There were numerous sets of these

rods (cages) in the room. I carried the monkeys in my arms

as they clung to me (they loved and trusted me). As soon

as I got the door opened and I stepped inside, one (a

baby), crawled down my leg and was hanging upside down from

my knee to my foot. I got the others put away, but this

one got loose and had run back outside. I closed the door

and went after it, finally managing to catch it. I didn't

really catch it, it came back to me on its own. It jumped

on my leg and crawled back into my arms (I'm now David

Letterman). Ugh! I moan. This isn't the baby monkey

anymore, but a larger, heavier monkey. As I take the

monkey back to the room it plants a kiss directly on my

right, open eyeball. I can't see anything and stumble

around trying to find the door so I can open it and get

this monkey off of me. (7/11/96) #423

** Snakes by JRA (96-08-16)

Thanks for the quick reply. In my dream I am being

threatened by a snake. In a most recent dream, a snake was

relentless in its pursuit of me. At one point I escaped

into a treehouse (where a party was being held - I think -

its a bit fuzzy now and it sounds weird) and the snake

turned up there too. It never reaches me in the dreams.

I grew up in a rural area where rattle snakes were a very

real threat. However, I was never in any real immediate

danger. I have seen several but have never been close

enough to be threatened. Recently I have not been

threatened by snakes. I live in an urban area.

Commentary on Snakes by Bob K

Aha! More details. You now have described one of the more

common types of dreams. BEING CHASED is a very common

dream, specially in younger children and young adults or

adults facing high stress situations. RUNNING AWAY to

escape the threat is the theme, and when it's running away

from animals (vs. say tornados or monsters, or people -

known or unknown) it usually have to do with a perceived

threat of a basic instinct type level or emotional level

which is much related to a "fight or flight" reaction.

This percieved threat could very well be some kind of

change coming up in ones life which may not necessarily be

bad, but is frightening nonetheless. Once you understand

its nature and take a stand on the issue (acceptance or

rejection), the repetitive dream or feature will usually


It is interesting in the dream that the dreamer climbs up

to a treehouse to escape, only to find that the snake gets

there too. In the dream the dreamer is trying to rise

above the usual environment at ground level, which happens

to be where the snakes move around commonly, and get

involved in a social event (party), but this of itself does

not protect the dreamer from the threat or prevent the

animal from climbing up a tree - which snakes can do. The

dream could be telling that participating in the party will

not solve the problem or it could be indicating a social

context where help may be found in dealing with the


Clearly from your comments, these dreams do not seem to

indicate a threat from a real physical snake. On a physical

plane though, I would ask myself: Do I know any people

that act like a snake or remind me of a snake that I may be

picking up on? Any slimy, slithery feeling about some

unresolved issue in my life?

Many times in chase dreams, the perceived threat is based

on our misunderstanding of the "messenger." The snakes may

be trying to communicate with one to help one solve a

problem. Certainly by reoccurring in our dreams they are

bringing your attention to the problem the represent and

how to solve it. Usually these wild animals will avoid

humans unless they are cornered or protecting their

territory. The snakes of these dreams are in active

pursuit which is not so common. Could they be trying to

"hug" the dreamer?

Hope this helps you.

Bob K.


**Dream: More Pez Finds by Nutcracker (960709)

We (my sister, myself and two guys) were driving somewhere.

I yell, "STOP," and the driver slams on the brakes. Out in

the middle of nowhere we had passed a little country store.

I saw in the window as we went by a display for Pez pipes.

We all got out and went inside and immediately found the

Pez section. Looking around at all the Pez stuff, I thought

I'd died and gone to Pez heaven. I had never seen so many

old Pez items before, at least not in person. The first

thing I see once inside is a display of Pez on a tray.

There are two items that look like they're made of wax.

One is in the shape of a mushroom. The other one has

melted into a blob. The clerk (S.W., a former classmate)

showed me two Pez water pitchers (one $60, one $80). One

had a retractable handle that also made the body of the

pitcher retract or collapse too. The other pitcher was

made of clear glass and looked like the old Koolaid

pitchers from the 50's, only this one said PEZ on the side.

On a shelf behind the counter I saw some really old Pez

dispensers made of glass. One was shaped like a boot and

one like a pint milk bottle. The milk bottle one had a

glass insert the same diameter as the inside of the bottle.

It fit directly in the center of the bottle and also said

PEZ on it. Then on a display rack alongside the counter I

spotted some old Pez candy refill packages. One was a

small cellophane bag and held about 50 pieces of candy. The

price on the bag was 2/$5. I told my sister, Sue, to go

and grab the Pez pipes out of the front window for me. You

couldn't actually smoke them, but if you blew into them, a

Pez candy would come out the end of the bowl. The bowls of

the pipes were actually Disney character's heads. Then

also behind the counter I noticed what looked to be some

kind of homemade Pez gizmo. I think it was a coin return

mechanism. There were two of them. It was made of a 12"

long square glass tube and the word Pez was written on the

front in stained glass. They hung behind the counter.

They weren't for sale, but I went behind the counter and

took one down to look at further. Then of course I

couldn't get it back in place and had to have the guy put

it back for me. (7/9/96) #417


** Dream: Sculptor Dream by GSD (96-08-19)

Sculptor Dream.

I am in my 20's, full of the arrogance and vitality of

youth. I am an artist/sculptor in a community of other

artists. Some are in formal study at a 'college. Others

like myself, hang out on the fringes and do our own thing.

The formal group has just cast a large figurative

sculpture in gold for the first time. I show up as they put

it on the back of a truck after the casting. The lecturer

of the group, a lady I dont like, is standing on the top of

the truck talking to the students. She says that since the

metal is gold, we need to be careful with it and account

for it all and be careful of theft. As she says this,

I pick up small pieces of gold that have come from the

casting and throw them up against her. I seem to think

that the 'theft' references are directed at me and the

others. ( I observe that this is incredibly rude behaviour

but I am too caught in the dream to change ) I seem to

think that they have enough people to clean up the

sculpture, but apparently it belongs to an elderly lady

artist who only has a few people to help her. They are

calling for volunteers to help. I put up my hand along with

several others. As I walk away, I notice a petite young

girl with a delicate face and white?/light hair standing

nearby. I drape my arm around her shoulders to casually

congratulate her as I pass by. She turns into me and makes

it an embrace and I realize, with surprise, that she likes

me. "Congratulations on your first gold sculpture" I say

since I can think of nothing else. They have begun

cleaning up the sculpture, cutting off the feed runners. A

guy I dont like is using an angle grinder, a shower of

sparks and gold filings are going onto the ground against

the wall. I stop him. "Since we're working with gold,

wouldn't it be better if you had a sheet down so you could

collect the gold later. He goes off, later I hear the sound

of a vacumn cleaner which he is using to collect the gold.

Not the way I would have done it, but its the way this guy


Apparently something has gone wrong with the casting. The

head of the sculpture has been left off the main body and

cast separately and is of a poorer quality. I say/think? 'I

am good with faces, I can work on it". They are still

deciding what to do with it. They are annoyed that the

'college technicians' would do such a thing. I tell the

story about one of the other lecturers/technicians here

who did a similar thing to another group of students. They

listen and are amazed that 'professional' people would do

this. It gives them some insight into the people they are

studying under. I am in the commercial part of the

town. I have been thinking that I should be able to make

money no matter where I am, as at this time I have not even

enough for food. I am looking after a friends alsatian dog.

It is tied up but starts to get into a fight with another

tied on the other side while I have been musing on my

situation. I move it and go up to the other artists. I

am now with the other 'fringe' artists I hang out with.

Blurred images of rooms/houses away up the hill away from

the 'art college'. Some conversation and interaction with

people.(Dream starts to detoriate from here) They are

working on pieces for an exhibit that is either happening

now or soon. By using the old casings of car batteries

and the empty casings of (????) I can create a large hollow

square of these . People may get upset and think I have

used functional ones, as these are ecologically unsound.

The sculpture itself is to do with ecology and the

destruction of Nature. In another sequence: I am walking

along the riverbank of my childhood town. I am regretting

some of the things I haven't done, like carving 'om mane

pade hum' in Tibetan script into the rocks along the

river. I shrug and seem to think, 'can't be helped now' and

move on.

Addition: I have a background of 'lost wax' bronze

casting. A lot of work is involved in cutting off runners

(that feed molten bronze into the piece),removing

investment,cleaning and polishing. There seemed

to be a history of rivalry and conflict between the 'formal

college' administration and the fringe artists. My

character in the dream was young, with a sense of

arrogance, somewhat distainful of the college and felt

'above' in knowledge and experience from the other

students, who were mainly naieve and inexperienced. He was

aware of the value of the gold and how only a few pieces

would help his poverty, yet was distainful, as an artist,

of stooping to theft.



** Dream: Dreamsharing by Nutcracker (960705)

My mom and sister were whispering among themselves. They

were going somewhere, but didn't ask me to go with them. I

was making my bed when my sister came into the room. She

began to tell me something when I stopped her and said,

"You know, you told me that same thing last night in a

dream." That was my first experience with dreamsharing.

(7/5/96) #408


=== Dream: At The Kennedy s by Nutcracker ===

I find myself at the Kennedy (yes, THE Kennedy's) mansion.

I wasn't invited, but show up nonetheless. Inside the

house Caroline (being played by M.T., a former classmate)

and her brother John (the real JFK, Jr.) are home. I was

heading up the stairs when I ran into Jackie (not the real

Jackie) and a woman friend of hers (someone I know).

They're ahead of me and stop half way up the stairs. I

think Jackie is surprised to see me there. But before she

can begin asking questions of me, I tell the both of them

how great they look and how the turquoise and aqua shades

of blue in their outfits compliment them both (dazzle them

with BS) as I pick a piece of lint from the other woman's

outfit. I then proceed to take a drink from the other

woman's martini as I grab the cigarette out of Jackie's

hand. There's lipstick all over the cigarette. I take a

puff. It's wet and disgusting. I leave the two of them

and head up the stairs to Caroline's room. She has a

screened balcony off her bedroom. I go out there to finish

the cigarette. A few minutes pass before I notice her

sitting on the porch in a rocking chair. We talked a

while. "Aren't you supposed to be in the hospital?" she

asked me. "I left. I'm not going back there." "Aren't you

supposed to be meeting with Dr. Miller at this very

moment?" "Yes, but I'm not going. I'm not going back

there." We discussed the situation further and she

convinced me that I should return. Caroline then called

the hospital and got the doctor on the phone so that I

could reschedule my appointment. She dialed the number and

handed me the phone. I didn't want to take it, but she

forced the receiver into my hand. It was several minutes

before I said anything. Covering the mouthpiece, I asked

her what I should say. She told me and I repeated it.

"Hello? Dr. Miller?" "Yes," he replied. "This is N."

"Yes, N. I was wondering where you were." He was being so

calm and rational (reassuring) about all this. And he had

a good phone voice (sounded like Steve Thomas on This Old

House). "I apologize for missing my session (group class)

today. I checked myself into the hospital yesterday, then

I left the hospital today and wasn't going to come back,

but have since changed my mind. Ah, well, a friend

convinced me it would be best. May I come back to see

you?" "Well, you know that you'll be gone for the next two

weeks on vacation don't you?" he said. "I swear I didn't

plan this," I answered. I could sense him playing with my

mind....trying to use reverse psychology on me. I wanted

to say to him (rather hostilely), "Quit playing Jr.

Psychologist with me, can I come back or not?" But I held

my tongue instead. My mother was taking me to Australia

for two weeks and as much as I love Australia... "I'd

rather not go if I had any choice in the matter," I said to

him. But what I meant and wanted to say was, "I'd rather

kill myself than go with my mother to Australia for two

weeks." But I knew that wouldn't be a good thing to say to

a psychologist. Instead I said, "Please, may I return to

the hospital?" He said yes, and we discussed a date and

time for my return. (7/13/96) #429

(Comments from Nutcracker: If you think you re crazy, are

you really?)


=== Dream: Parallel Universe by Nutcracker ===

I was telling my friend Noam that I wanted to go to Tel

Aviv to visit his wife, Rachel. Next thing I know, Rachel

is back home and I'm telling her that I had wanted to come

visit. I had even gone so far as to go to the airport.

Though I never *saw* the airport in my dream, I was in a

field filled with huge power lines and I knew that the

airport (which was near the ocean) was off to my left. I

asked Rachel when it was exactly she returned and she said,

"Yesterday." Also in the field, beneath the power lines,

zebras roam freely. Now I have actually gone to Israel to

visit Rachel. It's the same spot, the field beneath the

power lines. I'm sitting at a picnic table talking with

Rachel and some others, including a man in his 40's, nicely

dressed (LL Bean). Next thing I know, this same nicely

dressed man is now dressed like a homeless person, his

clothes tattered and worn. He has a female companion

(wife/significant other?). A group of people drag the

woman away from the man, carrying her in the blanket she

had been covered with. They begin beating the man with the

thigh and leg of a dead animal (zebra I presume), hitting

him over and over about the head. I sit there as if

invisible. (7/9/96) #420


** Dream: "Bocca de Verita" by India (960809)

I dream I am going to visit my friend Carolyn in Trenton to

see if I would like the area and we should move there. I go

there and am surprised that her house is smaller and more

rustic than she led me to believe (she said it was urban

and large). We are sitting in the living room and she's

about to serve me lunch, which is some kind of pastina, but

I am looking at the records she has stacked by the

fireplace and when her son Kieran hands me the plate I

knock it over and spill it all over the floor. I'm

embarrassed so I try to help them clean it up, but when she

brings me another plate I knock it over again. I apologize

and tell her I will have to go home to change and then I'll

come back.

I go "home", which is another small (2-room), rural house,

where it seems that my husband Josh and I live with my

parents, and find that my parents' friends Milt and Sophie

are there with "their five kids." The two youngest are

babies. I play with the kids for awhile, especially the

babies, but they make a lot of noise and are unruly. I go

in the far room and Josh and I go to sleep.

In the morning I wake up and tell him I have to go visit

Carolyn again, but I don't know which trains I have to

take. He doesn't know either, so I go to the train station

in Hoboken and get on the first train out of there. I am

looking at the maps trying to figure out how to get to

Newton (at this point I think she lives in Newton) but I

can't find it on any of the maps. I figure I can always

take this train to its last stop and then change trains at

another station, but I don't want to waste the entire day.

I sit down next to this guy with an Eastern European

accent. He's urgently trying to talk to me but I don't

understand him and he's making me nervous because he keeps

trying to grab my ticket. I hold it firmly, wait for the

conductor to come and ask him for directions. He tells me

where to go.

I follow his directions and end up on an entirely different

kind of train. It's WHITE and looks like the cars on the

rides in Disneyworld. It's traveling through an indoor

platform with little stalls on either side of it, kind of

like a food court at a mall. I am the only person on the


A girl hands me a restaurant check with her name written on

the top. "I'm Tiffany (can't remember the last name) and

I'll be your guide today." I say thank you and turn away,

but she looks at me insistently and says, "Don't you get

it?" I'm confused but then understand. "Oh! You're my dream


"Yes," she says.

I ask, "Will this train take me to past lives?"

She says, "It's going to take you very fast through all the


I say okay. The car moves up a little bit to a pizza stand,

where a guy with dark hair and a moustache offers me a

snack of pizza before the ride starts. I say okay. He takes

my check and writes his name on it. It says, "Tony (can't

remember last name again)." I say, "Okay, thanks, Tony." He

laughs and says, "Don't you get it? I'm *Tony.* (a friend

of mine who died in 1992)" I'm amazed and want to talk to

him but the train starts moving.

The scene changes and I am in a 3 story glass-walled house

on top of a cliff by the sea. The scenery looks like Greece

or Italy. I am with Josh. I am playing this game pretending

all sorts of fantasy things, including that there is a

mysterious door which will lead me directly to the bottom

of the cliff, and that there is a cave with a spirit in it.

I finally get Josh to agree to play, and we decide to go

down to the bottom of the cliff. I want to take the

mysterious door, but I'm afraid because I'm claustrophobic,

and I'm afraid I might pick the wrong door and end up in

the cave with the wood spirit, who frightens me because he

is transfixed with my hair. (At this point it seems I

believe in the things I was "pretending" before.)

Josh and I get to the bottom of the cliff and are suddenly

in the church in Rome that houses the Bocca de Verita. This

is a round plaque of a scary face, and legend has it that

if you stick your hand in its mouth, it will bite you if

you are a liar. It was featured in Audrey Hepburn's film

Roman Holiday, (and in the film Only You with Marisa Tomei

and Robert Downey Jr.) The truth to the legend was that

there was a priest who placed a scorpion in the mouth of

the plaque to frighten schoolboys into telling the truth. I

am going over all of this over and over in my head because

I want to remember it to tell my friend Dor as "proof" that

Josh and I came here when I wake up.

Then we are outside our house on the cliff again. There is

an iceberg just off the shore and Josh and I cling to it

because I tell him we have to. I note that it is

melting/fizzing away just like the carbonated bath salts I

use. I look off to my left, and to my amazement, I see a

pirate ship tossing in the water and a volcano erupting. I

ask Josh if he can see them, thinking if he says yes it is

proof that our "game" is real. But he's not there anymore,

he's up in the house again, and I call to him but he can't

hear what I'm saying, just that I'm calling him. I get out

of the water and climb up the path to the house again. When

I get there, I open a closet door by mistake; the light is

turned on and it is all cobwebby. I wonder who turned the

light on but don't want to look to closely because the

closet looks dirty and I don't want to clean it out. I open

the other door, the stairs up into the living area of the

house, and start to climb them, afraid that I am going to

run into the spirit.

** Dream: "Get to the Airport!" by Blair (960716)

This dream is full of symbolism and relevance to my present


I dreamed that I was saying goodbye after a short visit

with Rosie B and Alison S, part of the management team at

my past employer (symbolizing my past). They were in a

semi truck on a dirt and gravel road in some woods. Rosie

was driving and I hugged and kissed her first. She told me

she loved me. I leaned over Rosie's lap and hugged Alison,

who was in the passenger seat. The hug was awkward.

Another woman introduced herself, a smart-looking woman

about 40, as the company's new director of finance. I

thought that perhaps she replaced my replacement (Later

thought--this may represent the director of finance

position I am now pursuing with my present employer). She

asked if I could take her to the airport. I agreed, but

really didn't want to.

My car, Doom Doom (my personal dream symbol for either my

past or for elegant practicality), was in a small ditch.

It had a trailer attached with stacks of Maxim, an exhibit

module material used in my present company (I had to "pull

some weight" caused by my job. The Maxim was obtained when

the top of my car was sheared off in an accident (but the

car appeared fine in the dream). Reality note: The

previous day I saw a tow truck towing a car that had the

top sheared off.

I had to figure out how to drive out of the ditch

(presented with a dream problem to solve). Doom Doom was a

low-powered diesel, and the ditch sides were steep

(representing difficulty). I walked up one side and

discovered that it was steeper than it appeared (the

difficulty is even worse than it appears). The director of

finance had to get to airport and had no time to waste

(time is critical in solving this problem or making this


I finally determined that I could abandon the trailer

(perhaps mentally abandoning my present employer or

position). The car was in good shape, the top had not been

sheared off, thus the Maxim wreckage could not be real. I

would not need it. (I determined that the "weight" of my

job on my was not of real substance).

I drove the car up and out of the ditch, then turned the

car around to look into the ditch (I had to look back and

reflect on my problems at my present job and the past). I

don't know why, but I was very compelled to do this and

overlook the ditch. In the ditch I saw the trailer of

Maxim and I saw Rich N, an accountant at work, playing

electric guitar and really rocking out. I would not expect

this of Rich.

The financial director lady then turned off the car and

pushed me again to get her to the airport (contradictory

and illogical, perhaps self-destructive--Why turn the car

off to get my attention to hurry, when turning the car off

would just slow us down?). The key/ignition was on the

passenger side of the car, presumably under her control.

I asked, "Why did you do that!?" I reached over her to

turn the key, but the starter cranked only slowly. The car

would not start. As I tried again, the battery was dying.

She again barked at me to get her to the airport. I

noticed Rosie and Alison had left (the previous job, my

past, was gone from my life forever.)

I refrained from telling her that by turning off the car

(Why was I reluctant to tell her of the problem that she

caused, but I would get blamed for?) , she will cause being

late to the airport. I recalled that Doom Doom had a choke

starter, not a key ignition. I pulled on the choke, but

the starter hardly budged. (My decision, which solved the

problem, combined with the new job resulted in a more

permanent problem!)

Still barking at me to get her to the airport, I firmly

told the financial director that she should not have turned

off the key.

**Dream: King Arthur s Court by Nutcracker (960712)

A dark cloud hangs above us. I can feel it as I stand

there alone in the Great Hall. I hear someone approach,

but am afraid to turn around to gaze upon their face. "Who

goes there?" I ask. "It is I." A voice I'm familiar with

reassures me. Relieved, he comes to my side to comfort me.

Then I hear another approach, this time on horseback.

Again, I am afraid to look. "Who is it?" I ask my

companion. "If there be only one, it be the King." I

dared to look as the King's black steed stopped beside me.

I ran my hands along the creature until they came to rest

upon those of the King. My hands trembled as I feared for

his well being. "Your Majesty." There were those who

wished him harm, as well as his castle and his Queen (I do

not know my position here, I may or may not be the Queen).

There was to be a contest. My King had a silver drawstring

bag filled with fifty silver coins. This was tied to his

silver chin length hair. If anyone found the King before

he reached a certain location (within the castle), he would

get the silver, the kingdom and would get to spend the

night with the Queen in the King's own bed. The contest

began as the King's so called loyal subjects infiltrated

the castle. I watched my King climb up an inside wall of

the castle (the walls were made of 2 x 3 foot gray stone

blocks), aided only by the help of some push pins used as a

hand hold. A difficult task for anyone to be sure, but

especially someone his age. He then disappeared behind a

secret panel in the wall to the safety of a hidden room. I

follow my fellow 'Arthurians' as they search for the King,

eager to discover all the secrets of the castle. I do not

yet fear for my own safety. I walk freely through the

castle, watching these evil men lurk about searching for my

King. It sickens me to see them scurrying down hallways,

venturing into rooms where they do not belong. Of course

there are those who are not here for the King himself, but

to plot against our country by searching the castle for

secret papers. One such man with this intention hid

beneath the dining room table, papers in hand, while the

others hunted the King. (7/12/96) #428

** Dream: Selfish by Nutcracker (960702)

A guy (Will Smith/ID4) carrying a baby and myself are

walking through a pristine wheat field. The wind picks up

and the wheat begins swaying gently back and forth. The

temperature is turning cooler now. All the baby is wearing

is one of those one piece, snap t-shirt things. Whatever

else I'm wearing, I've got a white blazer over it, but

refuse to give the blazer up to wrap the baby in. We reach

our destination and are now being questioned (interrogated)

by a higher (invisible) being. I step forward and tell

who/whatever, that *it's* my fault, and to let the others

be. After my confession, they let us all go. (7/2/96)


** Dream: The Trip by Nutcracker ((960706)

I was taking a plane/cruise ship somewhere. I was waiting

in line to check in and to also check my bag. My bag

looked like a piece of softside luggage (black,

2.5'x1.5'x6"), but was really a cardboard box. The box was

coming apart in several spots and I can't believe I left

home with it in this condition. I looked around the

terminal/lobby for some tape. There are a bunch of desks

cluttered together at the back of the room and I notice one

guy has two dispensers on his desk. I ask to borrow one

and he obliges. Now back in line I try my best to tape the

box shut. There seems to be one gaping hole in particular

that refuses to stay shut and as people walk by they keep

pulling my clothes out through the hole. I keep shoving

them back inside and adding more tape to the area. It then

dawns on me that I don't have to check my bag - I can carry

it on and put it in the overhead bin. I set my bag down

and go to the check in counter. When I'm through I

discover my bag is gone - stolen. So are a lot of other

peoples. I see a young guy in his 20's stealing an empty

golf club bag cover. I chase after him, but he gets away

by climbing nine feet up the side of the ship and through a

porthole. Refusing to let him get away, I chase him using

normal means; stairs and doors. By the time I get to where

he entered, two detectives(one female, one male) had caught

him. They were dressed like in the movie, 'Casablanca',

wearing trench coats and hats. Even though the kid had

short (red) hair, the female caught him by grabbing him by

the hair. (7/6/96) #410


**Dream: dreams of sunny last month...this month by LorD

1. A box of jumbo hair rollers sits beside a small trash image; a friend who wears her hair straight

appears at college with a page boy.

2. I dreamt I lost some of my teeth.

3. A childhood dream where a silver ball starts out small

in the palm of my hands, it grows and eventually

overwhelms me and I am attached to it as it floats off

into space. The space is white/blue like a morning sky.

4. lad

5. Is there a possibility you can give me an idea of these

dreams? thank you ....Sunny:+)

== Commentary on Dream questions (96-07-28) by Narcissus

> > 1. A box of jumbo hair rollers sits beside a small

trash image; > a friend who wears her hair

straight appears at college with a page boy.

I'm not very knowledgeable about hair rollers, but I'm

presuming that they're needed to create or maintain a page


In this dream, I'm looking for puns. Has my friend gone

from being straight (hetro) to being a lesbian or is she

somehow bringing out the masculine side of herself?

I'm having more trouble w/ the rollers/trash can image. Is

the box to large to fit into the trash can? Are the

changes my friend is going thru, are the changes I'm going

thru too great to fit in as a little trash (gossip)?

> 2. I dreamt I lost some of my teeth.

A very common dream. Lots of possibilities. One of my

favorite is a loss of power, toothless = powerless. Also

can have to do w/ not being able to take in nourishment.

Would help to know a little something about context, i.e.,

how old you were when you had the dream and what was

happening in yr life at the time.

> 3. A childhood dream where a silver ball starts out

small in the palm > of my hands, it grows and eventually

overwhelms me and I am attached to > it as it floats off

into space. The space is white/blue like a morning > sky.

Robt Bly talks about the golden ball of childhood wholeness

in his bk "Iron John." I wonder about this ball as an

image of a spirituality which has gone out of control. An

inflation which is keeping me from being grounded. I note

w/ interest that your nickname is "Sunny."

I also look to the pun in "morning." What am I losing as

this ball takes me into space?

I hope these thoughts are of use to you. Drop me a line

if you wish to discuss them further.



Dream: NO SUN by CathV (960725) revisited

In an expansive suburban back yard, Theo (my 3 year old

son) and I walk into a doghouse and sit down. It is really

very large, more like a shed, and empty except for a bench.

I sit on the bench, in the corner, and Theo crouches down

on the dirt ground between my feet and legs. Facing the

only doorway, I notice the contrast of the dark, empty,

colorless interior that frames the brightness and many

colors of green that are across the yards. I know I am

looking across many yards. As I am looking out I hear/feel

a sound, a whirling, pulsing sound, like a boomerang,

coming up from behind the doghouse. I have no idea what it

is and as it approaches overhead I freeze in fear. I am in

the corner, my arms are outstretched to the side, my legs

are somewhat open, my son's head is down--he is pre-

occupied with something on the ground. I feel vulnerable in

this open position and know that I must lean forward and

cover and protect Theo with my body but I am terrified and

cannot move. Suddenly all light turns to darkness. We are

sitting there in complete blackness and I know that there

is no longer a sun, there is no reflective light, no

possibility of light. I realize that this is what is meant

by "In the beginning there was a darkness that covered the


== Commentary on NO SUN / Part 2 by Bob K.

Sometimes the most obvious escapes us. In my dream, there

is a sense of isolation. I cannot see any more because the

Sun is gone. I can no longer see my son either. (Sun=son)

Just because I can t see him does not mean that our

relationship has ended - it will just move into another

context and dimension.


** Dream: Necrophilia by Nutcracker (960808)

David Kimball (Michael Corbett/Y&R) and I are walking down

the street, kissing and making out. We can't keep our

hands off of each other. He wants to hear me say over and

over how much I want him, how much I need him. He kills a

man so we can have sex on top of him. We went shopping and

started throwing everything out of the cart and into the

car (paper towels, toilet paper, etc.) so we can get to the

body which was wrapped in a plastic sheet at the bottom of

the cart.

== Commentary on " Necrophilia" (96-08-08) by Narcissus

What a fun dream! Sex and death. If we could only have

food (and in my dream, it is a grocery cart) then we'd

cover the waterfront!

In my dream, the man killed is my father and we're making

love "over his dead body." I'm dealing w/ some kind of

sexual inhibitions. I have to get by a lot of paperwork

before I can get to the body which is going to be the

platform for my love making. I'm also reminded of paper


In my dream my masculine is divided between the dead and

disapproving on the one side and the insecure and horny on

the other. I'd look for a way to integrate the dead and

the quick. How can I reanimate the corpse?

I'd also want to know how long the dead had been dead. Is

this a fresh kill, still warm, a suitable platform for

pleasure, or is this body cold and hard and uncomfortable.

The dreamer does not describe the dream ego's feelings

about the corpse and the lover. Is it lust or love? Is

she aware of the horror of the murder?

I hope these slightly strange thoughts are of use to you.


** Dream: "I left my Pablum, In San Francisco"

by Martski (960810)

I was making pablum for a wedding. I was in love and loved

in San Francisco. Two men are involved in the music or

comedy business. When I go in to change (for dinner, I

think), when someone else opens the door, he (my to-marry

person?) can see that I am wearing lots of lace on top -- I

am pleased to be wearing this beautiful slip, which I got

in high school, party of all the negligees Daddy bought me.

I and the wife/girl friend of the second man are both fat

"fullsome" -- (these are the words that occur to me, though

plump would describe us better), in the dream. Something

about S.F. airport. I have often dreamed of San Francisco,

the airport, getting there, flying in a small plane there,

being there -- I went to school in Berkeley -- the city

has some meaning for me beyond the obvious.


** Dream: Electric Dreams by Nutcracker ((960704)

I was in a building, like an old manufacturing plant or

warehouse. I was in one room when I came across a young

woman with short platinum colored hair. As I passed her she

stopped me and asked if I knew about the flyer she had in

her hand and where it came from. I took a glance at it.

It was info about an upcoming Electric Dreams convention.

I told her I was associated with Electric Dreams, but not

this part of it. I then told her about the web page on the

internet. She said she was already familiar with it. We

talked a bit further and then began leaving, walking each

other out into the hallway. The place was dingy. In the

dimly lit hall I could just make out the colors of gray and

salmon on the walls. We walked down the corridors trying

to find our way out. I was hoping we could leave together

(safety in numbers). The place was like a maze - you could

feel evil lurking around every corner. At one point we

turned a corner and stopped dead in our tracks. There were

two men standing just inside a doorway. Fearing for our

safety, we ran on tiptoes through the corridors. The woman

whispered to me, "Here come two more (men)," as we ducked

behind a wall for cover. (7/4/96) #405

** The Unknown Basement by BobK (960720)

I find a house on my property I didn't realize was there.

(In waking life I live in a town home - no property to brag

about) It's like a small one bedroom cottage. I enter, and

find a long stairway leading to a HUGE basement. Like its

several levels down and lit like a large

warehouse/industrial complex area. There is some kind of

clothing factory operation down there. I see piles of

clothes on many tables (like in the discount shopping

outlets). It is tricky getting down there. I wonder who

is in charge of this and ask where the boss is.

== Commentary on The Unknown Basement by Ppress (960804)

Dear Bob, Thanks so much for sending me the zine- it's

fascinating. I enjoyed reading your dream. If it were

mine, I would feel very happy to have had it, because for

me, finding another part of my house that I didn't know

was there would mean that now I have access to a previously

undiscovered or unutilized part of my mind or personality

or creativity. Because I take a stairway to the basement,

I would think that this aspect of me is being activated in

my subconscious- most probably through my dreamwork. The

clothing factory may have to do with the way I present

myself to others and my questioning about who the boss is

might reflect that I am questioning what changes I have to

make in order to claim the authority to put this new part

of me into action. Very positive dream I think!


Hi Bob, would like to submit some dreams.. my dreams have

been very precognitive as of late and are getting more and

more so...

** Dream: Dying Dog & TWA 800" by Michelle K (960716)

In the early morning hours of July 16 I dreamed that I was

walking around on a very unstable surface with was lumpy

and moving and was greeny blue color... scattered

everywhere around was debris and toppled chairs like the

kind of airliners... I kept saying that I must find a place

to bury a dog... where can I bury a dog???? I was wandering

around very lost and in a daze. I could not understand the

environment nor the debris and why the surface kept

buckling and moving... I awoke to hear my dog barking.. I

went to the garage and he died in my arms.. An autopsy

revealed that he had inhaled a weed that had puncture his

lung... The vet said it was a 1 in a million.. also the

next day, TWA flight 800 was bombed and the debris all over

the ocean floor...

** Dream: Message From Mom & Uncles Death

by Michelle K (960728)

Another dream,, I was wandering thru a large building and

there were thousands of people there all headed in one

direction, I kept asking what was going on?? Most just

kept walking in one direction and a line seemed to be

forming... I was pushing myself to the head of the line

when someone said 'Your mother is coming"" (my mother is

deceased some 9 years now). I pushed to the head of the

line and there was my mother.. she was absolutely glowing

and filled with love.. She held me and I felt her skin and

touch. I cried but she said she had not come for me.. my

time was not them... to go back.. Sobbing I turned and left

the room... I awoke in a mass on the floor, sobbing. That

day I was told my uncle had died in the night...

** Dream: Neighbors and Cancer by Michelle K (960728)

A dream last week was that I telephoned a neighbor woman

and asked about a woman who used to live in the

neighborhood.. The woman told me that the ex neighbor had

died of cancer--in her bones, lungs, and brain.... I had

this dream twice... while talking to that neighbor, she

told me that the ex neighbor was going in for a bone scan

and other tests as they think she has cancer...

I have been doing much spiritual and soul study and these

dreams are coming more and more all the time...

blessings, Michelle K


** Dream: "Dancing with the Ghost of the Turntable"

by Blair (960514)

I dreamed that I was living in my grandmother s house

(mother s mother). Dave M (a best friend) and Dave S

(other Dave s workmate, who I ve never met) were in the

house with me. I warned them that the house was haunted.

I expressed my disappointment that I could not use the

basement. It was spacious, but haunted.

I heard a bump under the floor in the back of the house.

The bump moved forward under the house, then to the front

porch. Dave M still didn t believe the house was haunted.

I opened the front door, which had an additional iron bar

security door.

There was an ugly monster at the door. As he inhaled, he

swelled to 8 high, then shrunk to 4 as he exhaled. I

said, "We re afraid you re going to hurt us."

As he shrunk, he introduced himself and said, "I live in

the turntable." He told me the name of a girl who put him

there, but I don t recall the name. He talked like a

munchkin from the "Wizard of Oz."

He inhaled, grew to 8 high, got ugly and growled showing

his sharp teeth. As he exhaled, he became human.

In human form, the monster was wearing a light-colored

tweed suit, stylish hat and tap shoes. He looked sharp! I

walked outside and was wearing clothes of a similar style,

but in a dark suit that wasn t quite as sharp. The

"monster," now a very good-looking human, was definitely

"showing me up."

There was instrumental music, something like "It s

Beginning to Look A lot like Christmas."

The monster and I broke into a dance that I would describe

as a cross between a Fred Astaire and Lucille Ball

performance! The monster s moves were graceful and

expressive (like Fred Astaire). He tap danced, did tricks

with his hat and cane, and smiled with glee. The monster

pointed to me to take a solo.

My moves were intentionally "gracefully clumsy"--part of

the act (like Lucille Ball). I recovered well from my

clumsy moves, but it had all been well-rehearsed. My

exaggerated facial expressions showed embarrassment and

frustration--again, part of the act.

We danced on the front porch and the driveway. The monster

tap danced back up to the front door. Dave M and Dave S

were inside. The monster approached a box on the porch.

The box was full of toys and gadgets to use as props for

the dance act. The monster picked up a dumbbell and did a

trick with it. He gracefully threw it to me.

Still part of the act, two blond girls, about 10 years old,

in white dresses and ribbons in their curly hair ran out

the front door. They playfully ran to the smiling monster,

then giggled and jumped as they shouted, "Take me, too.

Take me, too!"

I awoke wondering where I was.

My interpretation: I need to confront my fears and I ll

find that they aren t as bad as I thought. I also have a

need to convince Dave M of my views. I often play the


Dave S had the following comments:

Is he a musician? If so maybe the "monster" symbolizes

someone (or something) having different personalities or

styles of music that Bob admires. Maybe the "Lucy"

character he plays shows how he can personally compliment

the "monster's" style without stealing the show.

The basement may symbolize a deep or repressed memory,

place or idea that was hard to recover or get to (hence

,the bars) but once realized, it turns out to be much more

pleasant than memory held.

**Dream: Dream#9" by Sprock (960805)

9:38 PM 8/2/96 Victoria, Regarding dreams, I've had some

that have made quite an impression on me at various stages

of my life, of which I can remember a few details.



As a Beatles fan (but not limited to them!) one of the

most joyous experiences I've had was earlier on this year.

I found myself floating into a room in John Lennon's house

where he recorded his Imagine album (as it appears

somewhere within the album's packaging). We talked, but

now I think of it , it was more like telepathy , about

music, him being missed, but it was so cool... no stress,

he started singing a song that was one he'd written but

not on our earthly plane. I picked up the words and the

melody, and, and as I like the sound of my own voice :),

started singing with him. He finished playing his piano

and "said" a farewell that didn't sound "permanent". It

was like we were long-lost mates who'll just catch-up

whenever it's right, then I sensed I was rushing

backwards..... ever see Dr Who and that tunnel effect on

the opening ? A bit like that only flying feet-first

backwards, all the while feeling as immensely happy as

when each of our boys were born. I then saw a dim outline

of a huge eye as if the tunnel opened at the iris and then

woke up. Man, I was so INCREDIBLY happy (and content!) I

woke my wife up to tell her, it was such a buzz. The

weirdest part is that although the memorable dreams don't

actually seem to have me "directing", that is influencing

the dream plot, this John Lennon dream, (Dream #9 ???.. a

little Lennon humour!) left me with the sensation that I

hadn't "dreamt" it, more like I was there than in any

other dream I've had before or to date. I knew in my dream

that John was dead (on the Earth-plane anyway), he knew

it, and so we just got down to it !

** Dream: "I d Rather Play my Bass than Get Married" by

Blair (960420)

I dreamed that I was talking to my mother on the phone.

She asked if I wanted to marry a lady that was the daughter

of a friend of my father s. I had only briefly met the

woman, but I didn t remember her. I replied lazily, "Yeah

... sure ... ok."

The scene changed for a moment. There was a large wedding

party. All my parents friends from Pittsburgh was there.

The crowd was noisy, but I kept hearing above the noise,

"Hey, Bob!" as my father s friends were yelling to him.

The scene changed again. My father and I were seating

ourselves in a pew in the church. We were in the next-to-

last row. I had my Rickenbacker bass strapped over my

shoulder. As I sat, I noticed the brother of my bride in

the row behind us. He had a Kubicki X-Factor, a very nice

and expensive bass guitar. He was playing some fancy slap-

and-pop thumbstyle, a technique style which I never took

much interest in pursuing.

As the time to march down the aisle approached, I got his

attention and handed him my Rickenbacker. Speaking softly

because we were in a church, I said, "See what you think of

this." I was sure he would be impressed.

He played on it for a moment. I was paying attention to

the church service, not his playing. A moment later he

gave it back to me.

I asked, "What dya think?"

As he handed it back to me, he tilted his head, snarled one

side of his lips and grunted. He obviously didn t care for

my Rickenbacker. I said, "It really depends on your playing

style. You have a different playing style than mine."

As soon as he handed the bass to me, I handed it right back

and asked, "Will you watch this for me?" It was time for

me to get married.

He said, "Sure."

I went to the back of the church where I met my bride for

the first time. She was taller than me and was wearing

high heels. She was very plain looking--dumpy and

unattractive, but not homely.

She put her left arm in my right and we started to walk up

an aisle on the right side of the church (facing the

altar). This wasn t the actual procession, we were just

making an entrance.

We got behind a drape near the altar and she let go. I

walked through. As I walked down toward the back of the

church on the other side, I heard my bride yelling and

screaming at her mother and bridesmaids. She was upset

about her hair and the dress and other things.

I had several thoughts: What was I getting myself into?

We need to combine our assets. She might want to keep her

own checking account. That would be fine. If we get

divorced it could wipe out my savings. Perhaps we could

get a no-fault divorce before we re married six months.

I continued walking. I passed my boss and asked, "Do I

have to do this?"

She replied firmly, "Yes."

At the back of the church I was grooming myself in front of

a mirror. I noticed that my left ear and was bleeding

slightly. I couldn t stop the bleeding throughout the rest

of the dream.

Then my bride was in back with me. Something wasn t ready

yet, but we needed to go up to the altar quickly. She

started walking very fast, this time up the aisle on the

left side. I noticed that her dress was off center. I was

walking fast behind her. As we entered the main church

area, people were laughing because it looked like I was

chasing her. I noticed my left ear was still bleeding.

I then started to run on my hands. My feet were in the

air. My cuffs were not buttoned and were getting dirty.

My left ear was still bleeding.

Midway through the church we passed a bar that was set up

in the middle of the church. She did something to

embarrass me. I think she stopped and I collided with her.

I was upset as I said, "How dare you embarrass me in front

of everybody!"

I calmly walked back to my pew. My ear was still bleeding.

I picked up my Rickenbacker, and started playing.

I awoke thinking that my left ear was bleeding.

My interpretation:

I see the story as a conflict between what others want me

to do (my father arranged the marriage with a daughter of

his friend, he was the life of the party, etc.) and what I

want to do (symbolized by playing my bass).

Also, there is a conflict between the way I want to pursue

my own path, and what others on a similar path see as the

best way. Dream example: The bass style that I am

developing would be criticized by contemporary "en vouge"

bassists (I still play Rickenbacker w/pick like Chris

Squire in the 70s, but I don't play thumbstyle), but I

don't care. I play for me, I make noise, and I'm becoming

very satisfied with my mode of expression. I'm not

concerned with what others think of my pursuit.

As I started to go through with the wishes of others

(started to get married) I had an "en vouge" bassist hold

my bass for awhile, knowing that I would return for it

(note that I have recently realized that many of my

bass/music goals/pursuits were deviating from the

expression that I had bee striving to accomplish, including

my attempts at contemporary techniques such as thumbstyle).

In the end of the dream I found a way to get away from the

wishes of others and went back to my own pursuit--playing

my bass in my own way--regardless of the disapproval

(embarrassment in the dream) of others. The experience did

wound and scar me (the bleeding ear).


==Commentary by Narcissus on "Tornado Dreams" by Vicky T


If these were my dreams, I would be joyful about how I am

becoming more and more effective in dealing w/ this threat

and assuring the safety of those around me. I've moved

from self-centered fear to fascination and concern for


In my dream, the next step after getting everyone to safety

is to face the tornado. This swirl of energy, so

powerful, so frightening, may be a source of tremendous

power for me if I can learn to face and tame it. I'm

already heading in this direction.

I would try to "be" the tornado. Feel my strength and

figure out where it leads me. I would try to turn the fear

into empowerment.

I wish you joy in this effort.



** Dream: "Chen & I" by Chesko (960819)

Dream [I am the monk on the left, Chan]

"Two ancient monks sit side by side in a round

thatched hut. They are both in robes of earth red-brown,

this may well be before the time the Buddha came to this

land. Each comes from a village that has been at enmity

with the other for over a thousand years. Today they sit

together with the people from each village to see if some

reconciliation can be achieved. I watch the proceedings and

gradually become the monk on the left, Chan.

It appears that negotiations between the two

groups of elders has reached an impasse and general

discouragement is abroad. On the rice mat between me and

Chen, there is a black lacquer ceremonial tray on which sit

three bowls of green tea powder, white rice powder and red

lentil powder. These are offerings to the river god and to

all the ancient ones.

Chen and I are ancient ourselves, toothless and

quite shriveled with age. Our time to go back to the sea is

at hand. Since our people do not mingle, Chen and I had

never met until now. We each carried in our bodies a

thousand years of enmity for each other, which seemed to be

the only thing that kept us upright in our sitting

positions. Gradually I started to sink towards the ground.

I reached out to the bowl with the red lentil powder, the

offering which together with the white rice was unique to

my people. My trembling hand brought a fist full to my

mouth. Whatever moisture had been in my body was drawn to

the powder and I became quite limp with just enough

strength to reach out to the green tea powder. I put it

also in my mouth, most of it spilling out. This would have

taken all my water and I would die in minutes.

Then Chen, whose enmity also had started to leave

his body, started drooping down to the floor also. We

turned to each other and he started licking the powder from

my mouth. Slowly we began doing something which was between

kissing, eating the same mouthful, and returning to that

sense of delightful mouthing experienced by newborn infants

as the suckled on their mother's breast. This went on quite

some time, both our bodies started filling out, our

emaciated bodies became full and strong. Chen and I, as we

lay side by side on the floor turned into youths.

The villagers all came into the room to see this

event. I stood up, wearing only my loincloth, my body that

of a young man of 20, and yet that of a four year old. I

had a piece of clear cellophane on which were white

characters. All the people were quiet, I started to read.

Words were from a nursery rhyme by Chaucer in old English,

but I was singing the proto-words, words before English and

Laotian were separate languages. This singing was not of

words, but of a melodic chant flowing through all twelve

tones of the ancient Laotian language. When I finished the

nursery rhyme, everybody joined in a chorus which we

repeated again and again."

Some background on this dream. This dream came on

what would have been the wedding anniversary of my parents

were they still alive. There are certain presupposed bits

embedded into the dream which it is easier to say now. The

dream takes place in the arm pit of Asia, the land between

Laos and Cambodia. The village is about 100 miles inland

from the sea in a valley formed by the River Twung. More

than 1,000 years ago, two brothers, Chen and Chan, my

ancestor and that of the other monk, [we each bore our

ancestors names], dwelt by the side of the river and lived

by fishing. Early one morning their nets pulled in a great

sea turtle. The brothers had a bitter argument over the

turtle which lasted many weeks. They then decided that Chen

would move with his family to the western hills where the

soil was well suited for the cultivation of tea. Chan would

move east of the river to the gradual sloping land which

grew lentils. The two families parted, ill feelings on both

sides, and continued for more than 40 generations, never

speaking to each other in all those years. Obscurely

remembered by both families were their origins from before

the years on the river, when they lived by the side of the

sea. The sea and shore were very primitive in these

memories. There were yet no great trees, and the sun and

the moon seemed closer, the air heavier, the shore all rock

and the sea less salty. Somehow each person knew that he

carried that sea inside his body and the day would come

when the tide would be called back to the greater sea.

There was only the slightest overtone of eroticism

in Chen and my mouthing, it was more primitive, more

survival oriented.

This dream was so powerful that I thought I would

send it on.


** Dream: Of Trees Possessed by Nutcracker (960721)

I was with Victor (Eric Braeden/Y&R) and his friend

Douglas. We were at Victor s property where he was going to

build a ranch. We were standing there (I don t recall a

house, but we were looking out a window) when suddenly, out

of nowhere, a storm started brewing. The skies were black.

It was going to be a bad one. I wondered if we should even

bother putting our cars in the garage, thinking they d

probably get damaged there as well. Directly in front of us

stood a tree. It was of medium height (25-30 feet), had a

trunk 4 feet in diameter and had millions of leaves which

were small and waxy. Suddenly, out of the right side of

the leaves there appeared a small, dimpled looking, beluga

whale. The whale looked to be struggling to escape the

leaves and branches; feet (tail) first, if you will. It

finally broke free, but was then sucked immediately back

in. Next, all of the leaves began turning color; green to

black to white, finally turning into doves (but not flying

away, staying in the tree). There were hundreds of them.

Next the doves turned into twelve ghosts (like Casper, The

Friendly Ghost). All you can see are their heads poking

through the leaves. In the blink of an eye, the storm had

passed. I stood there in awe at what had transpired; my

mind trying to comprehend all I had seen. The tree before

us now forever broken. The trunk had been snapped

completely off and was now shattered and splintered on each

end. But the amazing thing was that the treetops were

still in tact, hanging ominously above the tree stump,

while the trunk itself was levitating sideways between the

treetop and the stump. The kinetic energy surrounding us

from the storm was remarkable. I grabbed my journal to

write everything down that had happened. Over my shoulder,

Victor began reading some of my previous entries (personal

comments, quotes and observations I'd made). One in

particular, and my favorite, caught his eye. He read it out

loud. I said to him, You know, I felt like I had been

touched by the hand of God when I wrote that. It was the

most incredible feeling. I then felt a buzzing

emanation within my body. My blood flowing through me like

electricity. I took my journal and sat down to write what

we had all witnessed. My mind is racing; my hand can t

process my thoughts fast enough. As I write, I suddenly

realize that I m sitting there topless, but I don t care.

I m wearing a brand new pair of jeans, the tag hanging off

one of those plastic strings that are so annoying. As I

continue writing I feel the coolness of the table as my

bare breasts rub against it. I write faster and faster, not

wanting to forget a single thing, my head nearly resting on

the table by my hand. Victor watches me, mesmerized. I

can feel myself get lightheaded, like I might pass out from

the sheer exhiliration of it all. I feel my body start to

tip over sideways, out of my chair. I find it increasingly

hard to breathe. I take deeper and deeper breaths,

reminding myself to breathe in and out. I wonder if Victor

will catch me before I fall? (7/21/96)

(Comments from Nutcracker: Would this lightheadedness

have been the start of lucid flying had I not woken up at

that precise moment?)



A reminder again For ED V3N8:

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Dreams: how about SIGNIFICANT DREAMS from the dreamers

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Sweet dreams & Hasta la vista!

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