Special Issue: Online Dream Sharing E.l.e.c.t.r.i.c D.r.e.a.m.s Subscribe: electric-dreams-subscribe@yahoogroups.com Unsubscribe: electric-dreams-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Subscribe Online: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/electric-dreams =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= E.l.e.c.t.r.i.c D.r.e.a.m.s Volume #8 Issue #11 November 2001 ISSN# 1089 4284 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= http://www.dreamgate.com/electric-dreams =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Download a Cover for this Issue! http://www.dreamgate.com/dream/ed-covers by Elizabeth Diaz =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= C O N T E N T S ++ Editor's Notes ++ Notes to the Editor/Dream Airing ++ Column: An Excerpt From the Lucid Dream Exchange Lucid Dreaming and the Deceased by Robert Waggoner ++ Article: Reflections on Online Dream Groups John W. Herbert, Ph. D. ++ Article: Three Asynchronous Dream Sharing Communities: Contrasts and Comparisons By Richard Wilkerson ++ Transcript: Online Dream Group Transcript: "Black Hole" By Phyllis Howing and Richard Wilkerson ++ Article: Developing Your Own Dreamwork Ethics By Richard Wilkerson (+Ed Kellogg) ++ Article: The DreamGate Course on the History of Dreams By Richard Wilkerson G L O B A L * D R E A M I N G * N E W S - Peggy Coats NEWS * RESEARCH & REQUESTS * WEBSITE & ONLINE UPDATES * * DREAM CALENDAR for October and November 2001 * ASD News Update! D R E A M S S E C T I O N : This issue includes volume # 285 - #309 D E A D L I N E : November 14, deadline for DECEMBER submissions XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX Send Dreams and Comments on Dreams to: Richard Wilkerson Send Dreaming News and Calendar Events to: Peggy Coats Send Articles and Subscription concerns to: Richard Wilkerson: =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Editor's Notes =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Welcome to the November issue of Electric Dreams, your portal to dreams and dreaming online. This month we are focusing on dream sharing online. The core of this issue will be a transcript from a real dream group. Usually these groups are closed and the information shared very confidential. But once each year we ask the group's permission to anonymously re-print the transcripts. The moderator's instructions, the dream, the questions, comments, and the replies are all included. This will allow others to better understand the process and perhaps join the group or start their own. Phillis Howing has provided this transcript "Black Hole" from a recent Electric Dreams/DreamGate DreamWheel and we are in debt to her and the group for opening up this special session. We recognize that there are many different ways to share dreams online besides the venues we offer, and the Electric Dreams e-zine has done its utmost to promote a wide variety of dream sharing online. From annual dream swarms, to local meetings to websites, to conferences and other events, the EDreams e-zine has provided almost a decade of support and networking for the online dream movement. There isn't enough room to compare all these styles of dream sharing, but in this issue I did want to compare a couple of groups similar to the DreamWheel. I have included a comparison of three dream sharing groups online, the DreamWheel, DreamChatters and DreamShare. Please see "Three Asynchronous Dream Sharing Communities: Contrasts and Comparisons" Also, the first great pioneer of online dreamwork, John W. Herbert, Ph. D., offers us an article this month originally published in a special issue of the ASD Dream Time magazine on the variety of venues that can be used for dream sharing in his talk "Reflections on Online Dream Groups." How members and moderators conduct themselves in a group is always an issue as dream material can be very personal and sensitive. If you are planning to run a dreamgroup, we highly recommend reading about the issue of ethics in sharing dreams in "Developing Your Own Dreamwork Ethics." I have included in this article the ethics template developed for ASD by Ed Kellogg that you can use to quickly develop your own ethics statement. Dreamwork can be deepened and supported by theoretical, conceptual and historical study. I originally developed the DreamGate History of Dreams course as a support for the DreamWheel, but the general breadth of the course works well with individual work as well. In the article "The DreamGate Course on the History of Dreams" I explore how this all works and more about using courses to support the practice of dreamwork. Our news directory, Peggy Coats, from dreamtree.com, has gathered dreaming news from around the world, events, conferences, and seminars. If you have news items about dreams and dreaming for Peggy, send them to her at pcoats@dreamtree.com Our dream-flow Dreams this month come from all around the Net and have been organized by the software developed by Harry Bosma. Be sure to look through the dreams and see what on the mind and soul of dreamers in Cyberspace. The Annual Dream Swarm will be rather informal this year. Usually we get together and swarm around the Net, visiting old dream friends and sites, and making new connections and dream friends. I hope to see you all online and we can meet for the swarm at the ASD Bulletin Board. However, the focus this year will be in updating the Electric Dreams Resource Page on dreams and dreaming. Stop by, see what's missing and send that in to me! http://www.dreamgate.com/dream/resources/ If you would like a cover for your Electric Dreams, the cover is at http://www.dreamgate.com/dream/ed-covers Many thanks to Elizabeth Diaz for this cover! |Read more about Liz in the Dream Airing Hey, the Call for Papers Deadline for the 2002 ASD Conference in Boston is December 31, 2001, so be sure to stop by, download and fill out the form to get your presentation in on time. Hope to see you there! http://www.asdreams.org/2002 NEXT MONTH: Robert Moss and Dream Pilots, Jeremy Taylor on Terror in Dreams, Stan Kulikowski ii on temporal features of a dream log, and more dreams related to the S11 tragedy. -Richard Wilkerson /////////////////////////////////////////////////////// =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Dream Airing: News, Notes and Events =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ////////////////////////////////////// Cover Art for Electric Dreams, November 2001 http://dreamgate.hypermart.net/ed-covers/ed8-11cov.jpg "The inspiration for the cover graphic came from a dream fragment. In the dream I added a butterfly image to a website I was working on in real life at the time. I had placed it on a black background and at the angel you see on the cover. The colors of the butterfly are virtually the same as in the dream." EDiaz Elizabeth Diaz is a member of the Association for the Study of Dreams and a web designer. She can be reached at EDreamDesigns@aol.com for graphic design work or at http://www.e-dreamdesigns.com/ //////////////////////////////////////////////////// Survey online: Digital Objects Are you having dreams about computers? There is a collision that is taking place between technology and humanity. This survey is interested in how the analog human dreams about digital objects, about robots, cyborgs, androids and other beings and scenarios that look at the human-machine interface. Be sure to drop off your computer dreams and fill out the survey at: http://www.dreamgate.com/computers/ ////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Mutual Dream Healing Circle =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Dreamshare members ( a moderated, egalitarian on-line group for exploring the life and meanings of the dream-world) have initiated a dream-healing concentration, to be held in the consciousness of participants on the night of the 21st. of each month. Before going to sleep at night, please hold the thought, prayer, or concentration in your consciousness of bringing healing energy to those who have so requested. you may use whatever practices are important or helpful to you in effecting this healing state. There will be a list of names or circumstances of those who have specifically requested to be included in our thoughts and prayers. Please observe the general decorum of distance healing work in many traditions and do not add anyone to the list without his or her express approval...you may wish to hold in your consciousness someone else you know who is in need of healing energy and send them that energy, but please do respect everyone's rights to self-determination and privacy. my feeling is that someone who has asked you for thoughts and prayers can be included here as well. Feel free to contact Judith, c/o if you would like to be included in the list or for more information. On awakening, you may wish to pay special attention to recalling your dreams and, if you wish, you may submit them to for inclusion on our list. Anyway, that's about it for now. Take care, Judith //////////////////////////////////////////////////////// =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= An Excerpt From the Lucid Dream Exchange By Lucy Gillis The following is adapted from a presentation given by Robert Waggoner at the Association for the Study of Dreams conference held in July 2001. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Lucid Dreaming and the Deceased by Robert Waggoner Over the years I have noticed that when experienced lucid dreamers are asked, "How has lucid dreaming changed you or your view of the world?", many of them respond by saying that lucid dreaming has completely reduced their fear of death. In fact, some lucid dreamers respond that they have virtually no fear of death. At first glance, the connection between lucid dreaming and losing the fear of death seems to be a very tenuous one at best. But it is a connection that comes via deep experience, as lucid dreamers discover that their conscious awareness, curiosity, personal focus and intent can exist in a wonderfully alive and active mental form and a fascinating mental environment of deep sensation and meaning. As lucid dreamers uncover deeper and broader lucid experiences, they often question that "IF" one can exist in a mental form in a mental environment, then upon Death (the physical event) when one obviously loses any physical function, is it possible that they would adopt something like this mental form which exists in the mental environment? And would their identity continue in this afterdeath state, similar to its existence as a mental form existing in a mental environment of lucid dreaming? Tibetan Buddhists have asserted a clear connection between lucid dreaming and the afterdeath experience. In his book, The Tibetan Yogas of Dream and Sleep,Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche states repeatedly that "All the dream and sleep practices are, on one level, preparations for death." (p.181). Similarly, a close reading of The Tibetan Book of Living and Dying by Sogyal Rinpoche in Chapter 18 "The Bardo of Becoming" with a subsection entitled "The Mental Body" shows significant parallels between the state of lucid dreaming and a lucid dreamer's abilities and that of a deceased person in the state of the bardo. But even if one concurs that there are striking similarities between lucid dreaming and the bardo of becoming, how could one investigate the possible linkage between lucid dreaming and the after death experience further and see if there is a deeper basis than historical anecdotes, religious traditions, and correlation of experience? The answer is, when lucid, set up an experiment and try to obtain information from the deceased. This is what I did in lucid dream about 18 months after my father's passing. April 20-21, 1999 "Talking To My Dead Father" -- Lucid Dream. "The dream scene is basically like a dark stage. Suddenly I see a golden wood ladder right in front of me, hanging in the air. I can see the polished wood gleaming and the thin grain lines on the wood. Suddenly I see a foot and then another and look up -- I recognize my dad is coming down the gold ladder. I realize, "Hey, Dad is dead" and think, "well, then this is a dream". In my lucidity, I am a bit surprised by his bad haircut, and grin at the absurdity of not getting a good haircut in the afterdeath state! He looks about 60 years old and very healthy, even though he passed on at 82. I think that since he's dead, I'll ask him some questions about death. He tells me that he is doing fine. Then I ask, "Dad. Tell me, when do you think Mrs. X will die?" He looks at me and says "Oh, she will probably die in 2 to 6 years." (In my dream journal, I have written 'heart' but I can't recall if he said she'd have heart problems. To the best of my knowledge she has never been bothered by heart problems.) I ask him some other questions. He says something like the coming months may be challenging for our family, but that we can make it. I get the feeling that August will be the most difficult. He also tells me firmly that I need to be more compassionate and understanding of one family member (as if to say that I know better). He has some other advice but upon awakening, this is all I recall. I felt very pleased to see him." As a postscript, the information provided about Mrs. X was very interesting. Almost two years later, Mrs. X went to the hospital in March 2001, complaining of shortness of breath. It took the doctors a few weeks to diagnose the problem, and they told her she had a rare, heart problem, in which the muscles of the heart begin to thicken and can't keep up with the supply of blood, so the blood backs up into the lungs and creates a shortness of breath. They said her veins and arteries were very healthy, and prescribed medication to help her heart. Prior to this, she had never evidenced heart problems. Similarly, within a month or two of this dream, my sister's house in Kansas was barely missed by a tornado that destroyed nearby houses and severely damaged her roof. And I took seriously his admonition to be more compassionate and understanding to a family member, resulting in a much healthier relationship. My point in writing this is to express the solace and warmth that I felt from my dreams, as they prepared me for my father's death, and then helped me afterwards in the realization that some part of his spirit carries on and continues to care for our family. For me, lucidity is a wonderful platform from which to experiment on the deep questions of life. Lucidity has the ability to show us that we can happily exist in a mental form in a mental environment and find meaning, joy and wonder in the lucid state. If upon our physical death and the loss of our physical functions, we adopt this mental form of our lucid dreams, then what? Though I may grieve that the deceased and I are no longer sharing the same environment, I can not grieve that one's consciousness has been forever extinguished. The light of that consciousness lingers on, and I feel that we can meet it in the beautiful and awesome world of dreams. ************************************************************ The Lucid Dream Exchange is a quarterly issue featuring lucid dreams and lucid dream related articles, poetry, and book reviews submitted by readers. To subscribe to The Lucid Dream Exchange, send a blank email to: TheLucidDreamExchange-subscribe@yahoogroups.com Or join through the Yahoo Groups website at http://groups.yahoo.com/ The LDE can be found under Sciences>Social Sciences>Psychology>Sleep and Dreams. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Reflections on Online Dream Groups John W. Herbert, Ph. D. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= The advent of global communication via the Internet has brought many changes to the extent to which information can be shared, and it has also changed our sense of community. We are no longer bound by geographical constraints but are linked by communal interests. Electronic communication provides us with many ways with which to share these various interests, and dreamwork has been one area that has proven to be very suitable for this emerging medium. I would like to share my personal experiences in conducting online dream groups. I was a student at Saybrook Graduate School in San Francisco, in a program leading to a Ph.D. in Psychology. My interest has been focused on studying the viability of conducting "Group Dreamwork Utilizing Computer Mediated Communication." The dreamwork was based on the "If it were my dream" approach. Initially, a face-to-face group's sharing was recorded at a Saybrook conference, where a breakfast group met for dreamwork. Posting an inquiry to the alt.dreams news group, I recruited members who were willing to join in a pilot study. I sent them the dreamer's dream and asked them to pretend it were their own and share thoughts and feelings. I tallied the group members' responses to the dreamer and the dreamer's comments back to the group, subjecting them to a chi-square analysis. The results confirmed that the communication of the e-mail computer mediated group produced more meaningful comments useful to the dreamer than did the face-to-face group. None of the computer group were experienced dreamworkers. To me, this was especially significant, because in many cases, both groups used similar language, but the volume of responses for the computer group was much larger. The results have to be viewed with caution, because I think one major advantage of the electronic communication is time. A face-to-face group is always limited by time, but communication by e-mail allows members a much longer period to reflect before responding. Assured that dreamwork was possible by e-mail, I designed ways of working with dreams online, and studied electronic group dreamwork using bulletin boards, e-mail, public forums, and chat rooms, both public and private. Categories Of Electronic Dreamwork There are four broad categories for electronic group dreamwork: PUBLIC --------- PRIVATE DELAYED :: Bulletin Board E-Mail/Dream Wheel REAL TIME :: Auditorium/Chat Chat Room Postings After the protocol for online group dreamwork was developed, all postings followed the general pattern of a call for the formation of a dream group, a call for a dream to be shared, and the establishment of an agreed-upon schedule for the various segments of the dreamwork: posting the dream, questions and answers needed to clarify dream content, group members' sharing their "if it were my dream" comments, the dreamer's feedback (voluntary) to the group, and additional discussion if the dreamer wished to have it. Bulletin Board Format: Delayed Public The first groups that were formed were in response to postings on commercial services such as GEnie, Delphi, Prodigy, the WELL, and Compuserve. The majority of the dreamwork, however, was conducted on America Online, and particularly on Seniornet, a subset of AOL. A major advantage of bulletin boards is that they can provide an educational function. One can set up sub- classifications for different interests, the topics usually remain visible for a some period of time, and those new to group dreamwork can read sequential postings and get an idea of how the process works. Lurkers can learn about the protocol. Disadvantages of a bulletin board are that there is no privacy, and one has little control over what is posted. Periodic reminders were necessary about NOT using "I think your dream means" attitudes. In addition, the postings are subject to the software whims of the host. On several occasions the AOL software swept away postings on the bulletin board, and special efforts were required to reestablish the topics. All the dreamwork followed an "If it were my dream" approach, and it always took a little more work to guide newcomers through the steps. The initial groups took a few sessions to become comfortable with the process. The task of a moderator was similar in both groups, except that it was always a delicate task to get new participants to be aware of the importance of using the "If it were my dream" approach. It was necessary to provide anonymity and to establish timetables. Organizational effort was required. The groups needed about 12 days for the whole process, generally allowing 2 - 3 days for most segments. Although all the dreamers were comfortable with the provided anonymity, occasionally sensitive issues required special handling. At such times, I acted as a go-between for the dreamer and re- posting his or her remarks under a pseudonym. Anonymity did not matter for most members, but was of concern to members who frequently posted to other AOL topic areas. Apparently their personal situations were occasionally known to members in the other topic areas (where they posted under their regular logon names), and they therefore preferred anonymity for the dreamwork. AOL's members could choose up to 5 screen names, and if a name was "unprofiled," there was no published information associated with it. Within the groups, however, group members shared their real or "regular logon" names by private e-mail communication. Group members were therefore known to each other. Dreamer feedback information was also often shared by e-mail. E-Mail Format: Delayed Private It was a natural transition to move from bulletin boards to e-mail. Most members preferred providing feedback by e-mail, so groups were run using e-mail only. With e-mail, participation was expanded to more than just AOL's membership. It was at this stage that many ASD members joined the process. There are two methods for a moderator to process e-mail communications. Individual group members can send posts directly to the moderator, who then assembles them and makes one collected post to all group members. A lot of work is required to act as the clearing house for e-mail postings, but the advantage is that a moderator can make suggestions to newcomers concerning revisions to phrasing before their final posting is made. This method is very supportive of new members. The usual method is for each member to send multiple copies to all other group members E-Mail offers privacy. Anonymity was never a problem with e- mail. And obviously, anyone with an e-mail address can participate in a group. Dream Wheels: Delayed Private Dream Wheels are suitable for group dreamwork and utilize a Majordomo or Listserv type program where any posting to the listserv address is seen by all members. Usually a request to join a group is sent to a moderator who subscribes the member. Currently Richard Wilkerson's website at dreamgate.com hosts Dream Wheels. Jeremy Taylor's Dream Show America Online contracted with Jeremy Taylor to host a Dream Show. His Dream Show area contained open bulletin boards, topics of general information and a link to the hour-long live dream show, which, for the majority of the show's life (over a year and 3/4), was held in an auditorium, but it was later shifted to chat rooms. The real time dreamwork was entirely different. Jeremy, as the host, was always very busy. Auditoriums: Real Time Public As members joined the auditorium, they were placed in multiple electronic rows of approximately 10 members per row, and they could chat amongst themselves, that is, individual row postings were seen by all members in that particular row. Occasionally rows could discuss dreams submitted to the row by one of the row members. Postings from the stage were seen by all members of all rows. Any member of the audience could communicate with the host by sending a question or comment to that host. The host had to decide which questions or comments were to be made visible to all the audience, and those were relayed for all to see. The number of auditorium visitors varied substantially depending upon whether AOL had proper signposts directing members to the location. Initially, daily participation varied between 100 to 120, but when the signposts were missing, membership would drop. The location of the auditorium was changed and later the format was moved to a chat room. Chat Room: Real Time Public A chat room is different than an auditorium. Any posting by any member is seen by all, and the communication in a chat room depends upon the agreed upon protocol of that room. A formal protocol provides an orderly environment but requires that permission be obtained before posting a question or comment. Formal protocol, however, would have undoubtedly restrained the spontaneity of questions and comments, so a "semi- formal" protocol was chosen. At first, participants were so busy greeting each other that it was difficult to get down to work. Once the members became familiar with the protocol, it was easier, but it still took a lot of work for both the host and co-hosts to maintain order. The second chat room was a very difficult location to work with, because it was scheduled for a specific hour between two other topics. One therefore had to contend with left- over members from the first show, and early arrivals for the second show. In spite of the administrative difficulties, excellent dream sharing still took place. Chat Room: Real Time Private A wonderful example of successful continuing online group dreamwork sprang from Jeremy Taylor's Dream Show. Immediately after the show was terminated, 16 participants decided to continue dreamwork and created a private room on AOL where real-time meetings were held once a week. That group is still in existence now, although the numbers have dropped, core members still meet twice a week, on Wednesday mornings for one hour and Sunday evenings for two hours. As one might expect, they are all remarkably good dreamworkers. Websites There are also many dream related websites available for inspection and/or participation using a browser such as Netscape's Navigator or Microsoft's Explorer. There is a wide variety in the quality of postgings on different websites. Links to many of these sites can be found at Richard Wilkerson's . THE FUTURE: ISP COMMUNITIES I believe that the emerging ISP communities such as Yahoo's Clubs, Geocities' Neighborhoods, or Sixdegrees Channels will be able to provide excellent operating locations for group dreamwork. Accessible to anyone with a browser, communities can be set up to provide either delayed public areas for posting general information, or private delayed BB areas or real-time meeting areas, similar to AOL's private chat rooms. One can conduct or join in remarkable dreamwork online. It takes work, but I'd encourage all to support, participate in, or create areas for responsible dreamwork. John W. Herbert, Ph. D. jherbert@alum.mit.edu Reprinted with permission from ASD Dream Time 17(3) (2000). Reflections on Online Dream Groups. John W. Herbert, Ph. D. Also, see John Herbert's Dissertation on this subject: http://www.dreamgate.com/herbert -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Three Asynchronous Dream Sharing Communities Contrasts and Comparisons Richard Wilkerson -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- In this article I would like to give newcomers to dreaming online a quick comparison of three great e-mail listserv dreamgroups online, the Electric Dreams DreamWheel, DreamShare, and DreamChatters. DreamChatters dreamchatters-subscribe@yahoogroups.com http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dreamchatters DreamChatters, hosted by Victoria Quinton, offers a list that is probably the most recognizable to those who participate in discussion groups online. There is an open format where any topic on dreams and dreaming can be discussed, from how to obtain lucidity in dreaming to questions about the specific meaning of a personal dream. Victoria is a great host as she is connected with many of the dream organizations online, including the Association for the Study of Dreams, Electric Dreams, DreamGate, DreamTree and others. Victoria brings in the big dreamers, famous dream personages from around the world. Its not unusual to hear from Robert Van de Castle, Henry Reed, Rita Dwyer, Alan Siegel, and many others. Victoria also brings in topics for discussion from the most current issues in the dream field. There is also a feeling of welcome and friendliness for people that are new to dreams and dreaming. Dreamwork Notes: One can work on a dream at several levels on this list. Some people send in dreams and simply ask others to comment. Sometimes people ask how to interpret a dream and get advice from the group. Other times there is a focus on a particular symbol or image. The list uses the "Village Elders" approach to ethics. There isn't any direct moderation on the list, but when someone is being inappropriate the older members of the list will chime in with their opinions and suggestions. What I really like is that I can talk about things that other dreamer's recognize and understand in the world of dreams, like flying in dreams, or special terrors, or lucidity or psi dreaming. That is, like the BADG (2) group offline, DreamChatters online is like a Dream Club where people who know a lot about dreaming mingle with those who don't, but they all talks dreams. Since the group ethos allows for just about any process, one may feel a bit lonely at time when no one responds to a dream, or overwhelmed with participants come out of the woodwork and say pretty bizarre things about your dream. Still, the over-all effect creates social bonding among the participants and the list is a major contribution to the global dreamwork movement. -------- The DreamWheel http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dreamwheel dreamwheel-subscribe@yahoogroups.com dreamwheel-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com The DreamWheel is a highly moderated dream group that follows a very specific process. (See a full transcript of a group in this issue of Electric Dreams) The group members are asked to send dreams into the moderator who picks one and has the group focus on this one dream(randomly at times, in order after the initial group has started). Members must all read the ethics statement before joining. The process consists of a question phase and a comment phase. During the question phase, the group may ask clarifying questions (what color was the jacket, where were you during the rainstorm?) but not questions that call for interpretation on the part of the dreamer (What does the color of the jacket mean? Why did it rain?). The dreamer may or may not reply as he/she wishes. The moderator watches for the question period to fall off and then starts the comment phase. During the comment phase, the participants are asked to take the dream as their own and reply in the " if this were my dream" or " in my dream" style. Again, the dreamer may or may not wish to reply, but are invited to do so. The moderator makes closing statements, sometimes summaries, and then moves on to the next dream. Sometimes a questionnaire is sent out to the group to offset the balance of power held by the moderator. DreamWork Notes: This process is very good for teaching and deepening one's interpretive skills, and research (1) has shown that for the dreamer, this method yields more satisfying intuitive understanding than face-to-face groups. On the other hand, the process does not leave a lot of room for general chit chat, which often forms the basis of wider discussions leading to social bonds. That is, it's a little hard to make friends in this process, even though you can deeply effect and change another person's life. I have found this is also very time consuming and takes a lot of work. Even if you are commenting on someone else's dream, since the style is to take the dream as your own, you will be doing a lot of your own psychological work. We have found that encouraging students to become moderators and/or start their own groups often off-sets the burn-out that can occur. We also use DreamWheel as a teaching group for the DreamGate History of Dreaming classes and find that this supplemental hands-on group for students an excellent teaching group. -------- DreamShare http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dreamshare dreamshare-subscribe@yahoogroups.com dreamshare-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com This group began at Jeremy Taylor's website and is still highly influenced by his work and dreamwork ethos. This means that they follow the "If this were my dream " style of dreamwork and see the dream and its interpretations as always serving healing and/or wholeness. The feeling and process of this group is somewhat between the DreamWheel and DreamChatters. A small, dedicated group oversee the process and guide the discussion of dreams along. Several dreams may be discussed at the same time and side topics of symbol exploration, healing rituals and mutual dream events often occur. This creates a very tightly knit community which means emotions can sometimes flare as values collide. Older members of the group often discuss the problems that arise and they will often draw on other dreamworkers outside the group and other resources to resolve the problems. Dreamwork Notes: DreamShare is a good list for applying and practicing dreamwork in the real world. The DreamWheel tends to focus on technique, and is highly recommended as a teaching group and for very serious dreamworkers. DreamChatters is a place to occasionally share a dream or help someone else with a dream, but geared more to discussing dreaming in general. People who come to DreamShare have some very real-world issues and often spend some serious time discussing them. They offer the focus of a small community and the benefits (and struggles) this can bring. -------- Just as a final note on all these communities, I want to say that the above characterizations are just that, characterizations. The DreamWheel often gets very loose and personal and develops a group feeling and DreamChatters develops very intimate groups and DreamShare can be fun and playful. Further, the asynchronous nature of these groups liberates you from having to pick just ONE. You can JOIN THEM ALL. Many people *are* on all of these groups! REFERENCES & CITATIONS (1) Herbert, John W. (2000). Group Dreamwork Utilizing Computer Mediated Communication: A Dissertation Submitted to the Faculty of Saybrook Graduate School in Partial Fulfillment of the Requirements for the Degree of Doctor of Philosophy in Psychology. Saybrook Graduate School. Copyright 2000 John W. Herbert. All rights reserved. (2) BADG Bay Area Dreamworkers Group. This is an informal, non-hierarchical group in the San Francisco - Bay Area (California) which I have found one can chat about what its like to be in the dream world. That is, someone may say "Hey do you ever have problems with wires during dream flights?" and someone else will say "Yes, and they always seem to be powerlines." That is, the open chit-chat allows discussion of shared experience at a level not offered by strict procedural groups. Sample Session - Herbert http://users.aol.com/john0417/dmgp/dg16.html Sample Session - Electric Dreams Dream Wheel (Wilkerson & Hicks) http://www.asdreams.org/asd-13/2lb12.htm Sample Session - Electric Dreams Dream Wheel (Wilkerson - Coins of Life) http://www.dreamgate.com/dream/ed-backissues/ed5-9.txt Sample Session - Electric Dreams DreamWheel (Wilkerson - Dreaming with Serbia) http://www.dreamgate.com/dream/serbia To read John Herbert's research work comparing face to face groups with online groups, go to http://www.dreamgate.com/herbert/ For a quick history and summary of this work, see: Wilkerson, R. & Herbert, J. (1995). John Herbert and the Internet Group Dreamwork . Electric Dreams 2(6) http://www.dreamgate.com/dream/articles_rcw/ed2-6jh.htm For a longer history of the DreamWheel Wilkerson, Richard Catlett (Winter, 1997). A History of Dream Sharing in Cyberspace - Part I The Association for the Study of Dreams Newsletter 14(1). http://www.dreamgate.com/dream/cyberphile/rcwasd05.htm Jeremy Taylor's Website and Dreamwork Ethics http://www.jeremytaylor.com -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Online Dream Group Transcript: "Black Hole" Phyllis Howing and Richard Wilkerson -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Great things are happening on the DreamWheel, so we thought we'd reprint the full transcript of a recent memorable session. In the DreamWheel online dream sharing group, members take turns presenting dreams for the group to work with, and the dream that came up just after the September 11 terrorist attacks happened to be particularly intense and timely. The dreamer, "Savannah," and all who participated in the session showed a remarkable willingness to enter the "Black Hole" and share their thoughts and feelings. We thank them for agreeing to have their contributions reprinted here under pen names, so that others may see how the process works. >>>>>> For more information on the ethics statement used and how to start a dream groups online, please see the related articles. Also, this article is available online at http://www.dreamgate.com/dream/library/blackhole.htm The session ( September 18 - September 25, 2001) began, as always, with a post opening the question phase... >>>>>>>>>>>> Transcript: "Black Hole" <<<<<<<<<<<<< From: Moderator (Phyllis) ...We'll move on now to Savannah's dream, "Black Hole." This is what is known as a hypnogogic event, or a waking dream that occurs just as a person is falling asleep. It's also, as the title suggests, a nightmare. Please glance over the instructions, scroll down to the dream, and then send your questions to the DreamWheel: dreamwheel@yahoogroups.com ...... Instructions: Asking questions of the dreamer: In this phase of the process you may ask the dreamer questions about the dream that may clarify the images of the dream. Do not ask questions that call for interpretations or that ask for material outside of the dream itself. The aim is to get to know the dream well AND also to allow for the maximum number of possible meanings being generated. Clarifying Questions: >Example: If this were the DREAM: "He turned around and grabbed Bill's jacket away from me."You can ask: 1. Questions about the details of any aspect of the dream AS they appeared IN the dream, for example: a. (feeling details) How did you feel (in the dream) when he grabbed Bill's jacket? b. (action details) Can you describe exactly how he grabbed Bill's jacket (eg where was he in relation to you; what movement did he make; what movement did you make)? c. (content details) What kind of jacket was it? How were you holding the jacket? Where were you when he grabbed the jacket? 2. Questions about how any "real" people or places in the dream differed from their "real" presentation in daytime life, for example: a. (who/what was recognisable) Who is the "he" that grabbed the jacket? Do you know him? Is the place where this happened to you recognisable? b. (how does the "familiar" differ) Was Bill's jacket the same in the dream as in your daytime life? If not, how was it different in the dream? 3. Questions about what a person/object/action etc means for the dream ego. You can ask something like: "What would the dream (plus name) have thought of the person/object/action etc". This makes sure that the emphasis remains on the dream and the dream ego rather than switching it to the daytime ego (who may have very different views upon the matter!). Dreamers in reply: If and when you reply to the questions, do so only to clarify the dream. Try to avoid interpretations at this point. If it is not clear from the dream how to answer a question, simply say it was not clear. [Moderator's note: While we instruct participants to restrict their questions to the format outlined above, which asks for clarification questions only, the moderator can allow other types of questions to be introduced into the process. The key here, we feel, is that the dreamer remain in full control of the process. As long as the dreamer understands that he/she can just as easily *not* answer a question, then variation on the guidelines seems to fit within our ethical framework (see Ethics Statement at: http://www.asdreams.org/idxaboutus.htm). Other times the moderator may "bring to everyone's attention" that a particular question has slipped from a question into an agenda or advice to the dreamer. Again, the key is whether the advice limits and imposes values on the dreamer, or, as is the case here, simply offers some alternatives the dreamer may or may not take. Obviously, too much of this would distract from the process.] ....... Savannah's dream: "Black Hole" I became real sleepy, so I went to bed. I have a sleep disorder, so whenever the sleep come down on me, I go for it. I closed my eyes, and I felt like I was asleep, but I can't say that I was asleep or awake. Almost immediately, I felt myself being pulled real fast into a black tunnel, which seems to have a few small white dots, like sand, scattered around, but not white enough to illuminate the darkness. The darkness is very scary. I am moving so fast, in spiraling motions. However, I am not going up or down, just moving across in a horizontal position. In hindsight, the darkness seems to be in space. When I tried to stop myself and turn around, I felt something getting into my bed behind me. It presses against my back real hard, and moves on top of me. I was lying on my left side facing the door, towards the north side. I tried to move the cover back so I could get my legs out of the bed, but I felt it pressing down on me with more force. I tried very hard, but was unable to get up. The harder I fought it, the harder it pressed against me. It seems to be trying to get into my body, and some of it managed to get inside my face and moved around like it was a huge lump. I tried hard to force it out of me by waking up. When I couldn't wake up, I begin talking to this nameless force on top of me, and partly in side of me. I asked it to let me up. I didn't speak with my vocal voice, but I heard myself talking to this force. It did not answer, just kept trying to get inside me and force me through the tunnel. I admit I was curious to find out what was on the other side of the black hole. However, my fear of it stopped me. In summary, I was caught between the realities of being asleep and awake at the same time. I was very much aware of what was happening. But I was unable to pass from one to the other on my own. I don't know how much time passes, but it seem to be happening real fast. The only way I was able to come out of it was because, the telephone rings, then I got up immediately. This dream like thing has happened twice this week, and over the years. The only way I get out of it, is, if someone wakes me or I hear a noise from the outside of my dream. This has caused me to have a lot of insomnia problems over the years. Because it's the only dream that I have a vivid memory of and can recant it in details. I must add, that the dream has evolved. When I was younger, the entity, or whatever you call that force, use to come through the door and get on top of me & and proceeds to ride me. Now, it's right near my bed and always enter me from behind, and I am always lying on my side to the north. Now there is more I don't mind sharing if someone can enlighten me about this things. I promise you, you won't be bored by my forthcoming. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From: Antonius Hi How long have you had this dream? Is there any special periods when this dream is more frequent? Are there any other feelings than being scared of the darkness when you move through the darkness? How does it feel when the force tries to get into you and how do you fight it, mentally or physically? What is the feeling when some of it enters your head and how does your voice sounds when you speak to it? A really scary dream, i really hope we will be able to help you understand it better. Antonius ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From: Savannah Hi Antonius& How long have you had this dream? I have had this dream or some form of it since I was eleven years old. I am fifty-two now. Is there any special periods when this dream is more frequent? The first time I had some parts of this dream was when my mother died. I was eleven. After she was buried, I saw a ball of light in the corner of the ceiling, facing north, and that same night I had the dream for the first time. I can recall that it started coming more frequently when I would feel lost and alone, or forced to attend a relative deathwatch, which was seem to be something I have always done. I thought this might be the problem, but the dream does not come after every deathwatch. Sometimes when I have these dreams over a three or four day period, I write for days, things that I had no way of knowing or understanding. I would be afraid to read it at first because I can t believe I could write such things. Now as I have aged, I am much better at understanding what I write, and grow less and less afraid of the words. Are there any other feelings than being scared of the darkness when you move through the darkness? I feel a sense of lost at times, thinking that I have already been pulled into the darkness. I feel that there is something waiting for me in the darkness, but I can t tell what it is. Mostly it fears of what lies beyond, even though I am tempted to allow myself to be pulled in. Of late, during each dream I am pulled further into the hole, and the dream is changing and this make me more afraid. How does it feel when the force tries to get into you and how do you fight it, mentally or physically? I feel violated at first, like something is under my skin moving around without my permission. Then I feel removed from myself for a minute or two, or what I think is a minute or two. I feel like I am not me. I feel myself crying out loud, but make no sound, thinking within my mind that I must be possessed by a demon. I fight to wake up, but I am frozen in place. I know I am asleep, but it seem I am awake. Then I panic and try to mentally tear this force from within me. I mentally speak to whatever it is that is messing with me, pleading with it to leave. I talk to it calmly at first, and then I become angrier because it won t leave me. Then I beg to be awakened. Physically I stay awake; therefore, I suffer with a bad sleep disorder. I am also a workaholic. There are times when I am awake for three or four days in a row. There have been times when I go a year or two without having this dream. What is the feeling when some of it enters your head and how does your voice sounds when you speak to it? I think in a language other then English, and it s as if I am communicating with someone or something, which I think is me. I hear the language in my head, and get the feeling that what or whoever is communicating understands it. There are times, after I have had these dreams, my right hand write something like shorthand, that is not shorthand because I don t know how to write it. I can t even understand what it means. I write pages and pages of it. My voice is always pleading, first calmly, then in Angier tones. It seem that at times I hear my voice like an echo. Then I panic. The last time I did noticed that even when I was thinking in anger, my silent voice sounded calm. Thank you for helping me. Savannah ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From: R.C. Savannah, What is it that you are afraid of happening? What do you think would happen if you went into the black hole? What about if you embraced the energy force? Does the vortex (or the energy force) have a masculine or a feminine feel? R.C. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From: Savannah Greetings RC, What is it that you are afraid of happening? I don t really know all the answer to that RC. Sometime I am afraid it might be death, then at other times it seem worst then death. I don t see death as a bad thing, just another womb to be born from, but still I am afraid of this dearm. What do you think would happen if you went into the black hole? Something inside me tells me I will awaken, but to what I do not know. I think there is something waiting for me, but I can t discern what it is, and this makes me more afraid then anything to enter the vortex. What about if you embraced the energy force? I desire to embrace it, but only if I can understand what it is before I do it. I guess, like in most of us, the unknown factor in anything seem to scare me silly within this dream that is so real when it s happening. What scares me even more is that I can only awaken from it, if someone or thing outside of my dream make a noise or shake me. Does the vortex (or the energy force) have a masculine or a feminine feel? Now I have never given this any thought. Now that I think on it, the vortex just seem like a powerful force pulling me down into it, I don't see it as anything but that. The voices that speak and listens, on the other hand, when I am silently pleading to be released, have no gender at all. More like a hermaphrodite. Thank you for responding RC. Savannah ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From: Pixie Dear Savannah, You said you would go further in explanation...Please take no offence to the questions I pose. This entity; is it forcing you to submit in a sexual way? (you mentioned that it entered you from behind...). Are you adverse to the idea that spiritual entities can attach themselves to the living, when they are lost, and cannot find their way to the next realm? If you are not, I encourage you to meditate, with intent, on removing these entities from your physical and spiritual bodies, so that you will be drained of your sleep no longer. How do you feel in the dream, are you confused as to whether you are dreaming? If so, you may be having a waking dream, which is different from a dream that occurs in R>E>M>. The process is usually very fast, and the entire dream can take place in a matter of seconds, or a few minutes, and is usually the stage where, with directed intent, one can manipulate the dreamscape, and provoke an Out of the Body Experience. I've had similar experiences to the one you've discribed. I was also isomniatic, and hadn't slept in over 48 hours, when the experience occured. I know exactly what you are describing, with the spiral tunel experience, but not the entity...this I feel in my gut, is real, and you should really try to eliminate this entity from your aura. Just sit quietly, and imagine yourself as a tower of lights. There are many colours of lights, through your seven chakras, and beyond your crown chakra, there are five more. These five lights connect you with the universe. Ask the entity to leave you; visualize it leaving through all 12 chakras, (your seven body chakras, and your upper 5). Explain to the spirit that you will no longer tolerate it feeding on your energy. Then, try to get a good long sleep. Sincerely, Pixie ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From: Savannah Greetings Pixie. You said you would go further in explanation...Please take no offence to the questions I pose. No offense taken. For indeed I desire some insight into this thing that has been on my back since I was eleven. This entity; is it forcing you to submit in a sexual way? (You mentioned that it entered you from behind...). Pixie, when this entity first appeared in my dreams, I felt it come to my bedroom door, and then I felt it walking towards my bed. Then it would enter me from the top if I were on my back, or sometimes from my side, through my arm. Now it is coming from behind me. When I used to feel the entity coming in the door I try to wake up, scream, or move and I am unable to. When I am sleeping with my husband, I try to get his attention, but can t. I can feel my breathing getting heavy and fast, it is almost like I am watching this and a part of it too. I think within my mind that my husband must hear me, but he doesn t. There were times that I would escape in the nix of time when he would moved in his sleep and his arm would land on my head or across my chest. Now the dreams come mostly when I am alone. Although I have been sexually, physically, and spiritually abused during my childhood, and some part of my adult life, I know the different. I do not feel that the entity is trying to have sex with me. It crawls under my skin, and although I can feel it enter my whole body, it appears to only move under the skin of my face. Are you adverse to the idea that spiritual entities can attach themselves to the living, when they are lost, and cannot find their way to the next realm? If you are not, I encourage you to meditate, with intent, on removing these entities from your physical and spiritual bodies, so that you will be drained of your sleep no longer. The old folk, where I was born believes that what I am experiencing is a haunt or witch riding me. They have never told me what to do to get rid of it because, as a child, I was never allowed to speak in adult company, just listen. Once when I became older I told someone about these dreams, they said I was possessed by a demon and just needed to pray. I did pray, but to no avail. Of late, I have been having trouble staying grounded to who I am. I am writing in five voices now, speaking in three. Some I understand, some I don t. The older I get the worse it is becoming. My built up fear of it has caused me to lock myself away from society 90% of the time. How do you feel in the dream, are you confused as to whether you are dreaming? If so, you may be having a waking dream, which is different from a dream that occurs in REM. The process is usually very fast, and the entire dream can take place in a matter of seconds, or a few minutes, and is usually the stage where,with directed intent, one can manipulate the dreamscape, and provoke an Out of the Body Experience. I feel I am asleep; actually, I am sure of it. Still, I am very much aware of what is happening. In fact, my body freezes up and I am aware that I cannot move, but inside me I am thrashing somewhat. The dream seems to last a long time, but once something or someone awaken me, I look over at the clock and only minutes have passed. I notice that whenever I come out of this dream I am breathing real hard, and my face is wet, I am also tired and agitated. I can always recall almost every detail of the dream, because it very seldom changes. I work real hard on programming myself to stop thinking about it. When I was much younger; the dream came in the daytime, when I would grab a nap, and at night. Now it appears only at night, or late in the evening. Now, I have had lucid dreams. In the last two years, I have had three. I know the different. Nevertheless, I do see your point of view. I've had similar experiences to the one you've described. I was also isomniatic, and hadn't slept in over 48 hours, when the experience occurred. I know exactly what you are describing, with the spiral tunnel experience, but not the entity...this I feel in my gut, is real, and you should really try to eliminate this entity from your aura. Just sit quietly, and imagine yourself as a tower of lights.There are many colours of lights, through your seven chakras, and beyond your crown chakra, there are five more. These five lights connect you with the universe. Ask the entity to leave you; visualize it leaving through all 12 chakras, (your seven body chakras, and your upper 5). Explain to the spirit that you will no longer tolerate it feeding on your energy. Then, try to get a good long sleep. Thank you for your input and indeed I shall look into your suggestions. You see, the dream is why I can t sleep. Before I begin having it, I had no problem sleeping. I can recall, that before my twenty-fifth birthday, I could just about tell when the dream would come. Now I can't. The longest I have went without having one of these dreams is three years. Peace Savannah ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From: Deena Hello, Savannah, First let me say, I'm not sure how I will be able to help you with this dream, it is so frightening to me, I don't know if I will be able to step into it fully. But I will do my best to get a sense of it and comment. A few questions: The force that enters you, you said in a reply to Antonius that lately you are being pulled further into the hole. Yet you describe at other points the force that is pushing you, pushing into you. Does this force, once attached within you then try to pull you into the vortex, or is the vortex a separate force? Do you sense that the force entering you wants to take over you for some specific purpose, or does it simply want to get you into the vortex? When, after the dream, you find yourself writing, channeling words and information you don't understand, do you feel this force within you at that time during the waking moment? Or is this something you do to get the energy out of you? Have you ever tried not writing after? Refusing to pick up a pen for several days until the impulse passes? Do you feel even the slightest attraction to this channeling of information that comes after? Or, if not now, did you at one time get something positive out of it or feel curious to know what it was all about? Say when you were younger, it might easily have seemed odd but fascinating, something that althought it frightened you, still attracted you on some level. Which fear is greater, that the force will push/pull you into the vortex, or that it will take over you completely and you will lose sight of yourself? Have you ever thought of showing your writings to someone who is expert in languages and different types of alphabets/writing to see if it is a real language rather than a kind of shorthand? Whew, sorry, didn't mean to get carried away. I am trying so hard to understand to be able to help. Deena ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From: Q.T. Grrrl Savannah - One thing really popped into my mind: When you are pleading for the entity to leave you, how does it react? It continues on, but is it menacing? Is it lonely? How does it "treat" you, in respect to not leaving? Also, if I may follow along Pixie's path a little...I truly believe in spirits, both good and evil, walking among us. You mentioned that you have prayed, but to no avail - is there a clergy member or someone you could talk to about this? Does the entity seem familiar to you? In several of my dreams, I have met people and seen an unfamiliar face, but felt the presence of someone loved or known from my past, and even at times, felt the presence of someone or something that I don't know in waking life, but still feels familiar. This is, of course, a far cry from what you feel in your dreams, but I wonder if there is similarity? Hope these questions will help - I'm looking forward to your response!! Cheers, Q.T. Grrrl :) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From: Savannah Hi Deena. The force that enters you, you said in a reply to Antonius that lately you are being pulled further into the hole. Yet, you describe at other points the force that is pushing you, pushing into you. Does this force, once attached within you then try to pull you into the vortex, or is the vortex a separate force? Yes. Actually, I do feel the sensation of first being pushed, then being pulled. I never gave much thought to it before, but I noticed it in the last dream. I thought this was new, and had meant to make notes of it. While I was being pushed, I felt the crawling under the skin of my face. Then as I was trying to plead with it to leave me, I felt like something started to pull me. I didn t get the sense that it was two different entities, but it was slightly different energies. The energy pulling had more power then what was pushing me. Do you sense that the force entering you wants to take over you for some specific purpose, or does it simply want to get you into the vortex? I never allow myself to think that, but yes I do sometimes. When such thoughts come to mind, I block them with my pleading. Fear consumes me during these dreams and I fight any way I can, especially closing my thoughts of to what my mind is trying to think, to wake up. I feel that if I listen I will lose the battle and go into the vortex. When, after the dream, you find yourself writing, channeling words and information you don't understand, do you feel this force within you at that time during the waking moment? Or is this something you do to get the energy out of you? I don t feel the force in me at the waking hour, but I feel the result or the effects of my fight with it. I am highly active even though I am tired from the dream, and very creative. Sometimes I have no control over writing and I sat at the computer for hours writing. A lot of it the writing is metaphysical to me in nature and the more I write the more I am beginning to understand what it is I am writing. But a lot of it is also about things I try not to remember about my life. Most of the things about my life or other folks life around me is written in prose or poetry. The hand scribbling is different. It comes in spells, long after the dream, sometimes days, sometimes months. Usually I begin to scribble without noticing it. I become aware of it after I have done two or three pages of it. The scribbling comes about when I am under stress about simple things that I don t think should cause me stress. Yes, all the writing calms me down, even though I feel tired when I awaken from the dream, I feel refresh when I write something, anything. Have you ever tried not writing after? Refusing to pick up a pen for several days until the impulse passes? Yes, I have. But when I do go to sleep the dream comes back, then I am up for two or three days at a time afraid that it will come back again. These days, I am writing something that scares me and fascinated me at the same time. I can t explain it and was going to put it on the Internet, with all the graphics that I ve created, and ask for help. The strange thing about this is, one of the graphic I created, when folded makes a perfect pyramid. It s wild and it has something to do with something called the 5th Element. It begun with the 4th Element, back in November, then when I mastered a slight understanding of what I was writing, remember I said slight, it quickly started me to writing about the 5th Element. Whenever I write something about it, it sucks my energy and I sleep for a couple of days. Do you feel even the slightest attraction to this channeling of information that comes after? Or, if not now, did you at one time get something positive out of it or feel curious to know what it was all about? Say when you were younger, it might easily have seemed odd but fascinating, something that although it frightened you, still attracted you on some level. I felt no attractions at first, but in 1992 a lot of that changed when I wrote something called In Search of the Master Dreamer. After reading what I had written, a few years later, I ran back home to ________ and all sort of things begin to happen. You see I am a high school drop out. I had five children by the time I was twenty-two. I had no skills other then picking cotton, cleaning house and taking care of children, the basic. I tell you this so you will understand. When I was younger, I feared the dreams but not as much as I do now. Back then, after these dreams I would learn skills so fast that it amazed me. When the home computer became popular back in the early eighties, I got one, and don t ask me how, and mastered it without reading a book. Believe me when I say, I was just never that smart. I am a shy person, still, there were times when I would watch myself speaking out on television, fighting for children and senior citizens, even had a small community newspaper. I knew this person doing all of this was not I. The longer the dream stayed away the more I return to my old shy self. No matter what project I took on from the influence of the dream, as the feelings from the dream died away, I would give up the projects, business, etc. and run away. These days I am hiding behind this computer hoping, that someone out there will help me understand, because I would like to begin to live, which is something I have never done. So to sum it up, I think I used the dreams at first, when I saw the effect it had on me in my waking hours, to take care of my family and put my husband through college. In 1997, I gave up everything: money, house, etc. I have no material things that amount to anything. I did this in hopes that the dream would go away if it saw that I gave up what I had gained from it. Instead, the dreams are getting stronger and the writing is getting more complex. I am tired, I am scared, and as luck would have it, I have no more money to run away. Which fear is greater, that the force will push/pull you into the vortex, or that it will take over you completely and you will lose sight of yourself? That it will take me over and I will lose sight of myself or who I am. Even though I really have problem with this me, she is all I know. Have you ever thought of showing your writings to someone who is expert in languages and different types of alphabets/writing to see if it is a real language rather than a kind of shorthand? No. No way! I have only shown it to my husband and children, and they couldn t help but see it because it s been a way of life for us for a long time now. To me it s all scribbles, even though some of it is repetitive. But what are the chances of a nobody like me writing a language. No way. I would be called crazy and locked away! Whew, sorry, didn't mean to get carried away. I am trying so hard to understand to be able to help. Don t be sorry. I will be forthcoming because I desire some answers. I will hold nothing back that I can recall to receive this help. So, don t be sorry. I appreciate being able to comfortably talk about it. If I can understand the dream, maybe I can have a life for a change. Peace, Savannah ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From: Savannah Hi Q.T. Grrrl. Savannah - One thing really popped into my mind: When you are pleading for the entity to leave you,how does it react? It continues on, but is it menacing? Is it lonely? How does it "treat" you, in respect to not leaving? The crawling under my skin is somewhat menacing to me, cause it reminds me of a snake crawling under some leaves, with a hump. But as I think about it, the only thing it does is get inside of me and try to push/pull me into the vortex. I don t get the feeling that it s lonely, because I know that feeling. The entity never respond to me; it just has one purpose it seems to me and that is to get inside of me and make me fall down into what is pulling me. Yet there is no up or down in the vortex. The only way I escape is if the telephone ring or I hear a loud noise, or if someone come in and awaken me. I cannot escape it unless I hear something from outside of the dream, back in my reality. As for how it treats me, well with the exception of what it is trying to get me to do, I don t feel anything else. I won t even allow my mind to think on it. I am so consumed with fear that all I think about is waking up. Also, if I may follow along Pixie's path a little...I truly believe in spirits, both good and evil, walking among us. You mentioned that you have prayed, but to no avail - is there a clergy member or someone you could talk to about this? I used to go to church seven days a week and twice on Sundays. I saw a lot of evil in churches and I have attended most of them. I married a catholic. I have believed in god as I was taught, but as I grew older, I begin to asked questions that had no answers. Since then I have came to my own understanding about god/goddess or whatever one call the unknown entity. When I was young, I used to try to talk to clergies about this; even in my thirties, I tried. They would tell me a demon was inside of me, and I had to stop sinning. Sinning? What did my dreams have to do with sin? Since then, I have tried to work it out myself to no avail. I have even tried to speak with counselors about it, but they would seem to fear what I would tell them and soon, their case-load would be too full to keep me on. On the Internet, I have had better success in talking about it in bit and pieces. Does the entity seem familiar to you? No. It doesn t seem like no one I know. But when I first had the dream, at age eleven, after I saw the light when my mother died, I thought it was her, but I haven t had that feeling since. In several of my dreams, I have met people and seen an unfamiliar face, but felt the presence of someone loved or known from my past, and even at times, felt the presence of someone or something that I don't know in waking life, but still feels familiar. This is, of course, a far cry from what you feel in your dreams, but I wonder if there is similarity? Hope these questions will help - I'm looking forward to your response!! Thank you Q.T. Grrrl. I will be open and honest because it is my desire to understand what is happening. I have never tried as hard before to understand this. This might be a sign of growth on my part, maybe. Peace, Savannah ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From: Moderator If you have any other questions that will help Savannah *describe* her "Black Hole" experience without asking her to interpret the experience, send them now. We'll be moving on to the comment phase for this dream tomorrow. ~Phyllis ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From: Rod Hi Savannah, I couldn't help remembering some of my own experience while I was reading your dream... I have a lot to say about it but for now I will restrict myself for questions (since it is the question phase). I think others have made the most important question and now I will like to ask you about some of your answers.... "I mentally speak to whatever it is that is messing with me, pleading with it to leave. I talk to it calmly at first, and then I become angrier because it won t leave me. Then I beg to be awakened." Do you feel/think this entity ignores you? Is this entity pleased when you get angry? "It seem that at times I hear my voice like an echo. Then I panic. The last time I did noticed that even when I was thinking in anger, my silent voice sounded calm." Do you panic because of the echo? Does the echo sound in panic too? What does it say? "I felt it come to my bedroom door, and then I felt it walking towards my bed. Then it would enter me from the top if I were on my back, or sometimes from my side, through my arm. Now it is coming from behind me." It is interesting that the last part is a present tense. It looks like you re-live your dream when you talk about it. "I didn't get the sense that it was two different entities, but it was slightly different energies. The energy pulling had more power then what was pushing me." Other than power and direction, is there a qualitative difference in the energies? "Fear consumes me during these dreams and I fight any way I can, especially closing my thoughts of to what my mind is trying to think, to wake up. I feel that if I listen I will lose the battle and go into the vortex." Is your mind a different entity than you? Does it play tricks to you? "These days, I am writing something that scares me and fascinated me at the same time." Are these feelings opossing like the energies that push/pull you? "The crawling under my skin is somewhat menacing to me, cause it reminds me of a snake crawling under some leaves, with a hump. But as I think about it, the only thing it does is get inside of me and try to push/pull me into the vortex." What's the color of the snake? Sincerelly rod ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From: Savannah Greetings Rod: "I mentally speak to whatever it is that is messing with me, pleading with it to leave. I talk to it calmly at first, and then I become angrier because it won t leave me. Then I beg to be awakened." Do you feel/think this entity ignores you? Is this entity pleased when you get angry? I would have to say yes, because no matter how I plead, it does not respond any different from what it always do. No matter how angry I get the entity s action does not change, in that, all it does is try to get me into the vortex. "It seem that at times I hear my voice like an echo. Then I panic. The last time I did noticed that even when I was thinking in anger, my silent voice sounded calm." Do you panic because of the echo? Does the echo sound in panic too? What does it say? I panic because the echo is the same as my voice and it s going on even as I plead, it pleads. The echo sounds calm like my voice, but the pitch is higher and it sound like it s coming from the outside of me. This causes me to panic even more and fight harder to wake up. "I felt it come to my bedroom door, and then I felt it walking towards my bed. Then it would enter me from the top if I were on my back, or sometimes from my side, through my arm. Now it is coming from behind me." It is interesting that the last part is a present tense. It looks like you re-live your dream when you talk about it. That could be grammatical, but you are right. The dream has been such a part of my life that I have to make real efforts to program myself not to think about. Talking like this to others about it does put me there in my waking hours. It s one of the reasons I am so candid with you about it. When I say the entity is coming behind me, I meant that it is now entering me from my backside. "I didn t get the sense that it was two different entities, but it was slightly different energies. The energy pulling had more power then what was pushing me." Other than power and direction, is there a qualitative difference in the energies? I have never given this any thought, but in my younger days, I don t recall being pushed and pulled, just pushed. I begin to experience the push/pull sensations after my twenty-fifth birthday. The only other different is that the entity is already in the room with me, when it used to come to the door and walk up to my bed. "Fear consumes me during these dreams and I fight any way I can, especially closing my thoughts of to what my mind istrying to think, to wake up. I feel that if I listen I will lose the battle and go into the vortex." Is your mind a different entity than you? Does it play tricks to you? When I am in this dream, my mind does seem to be different, because it tries to influence me to go into the vortex. I don t get the feeling it s playing tricks, because since day one, all the entity have ever done is consistently attempt to get me into the vortex. It has never spoken to me verbally or otherwise, unless you count the writing I am doing. "These days, I am writing something that scares me and fascinated me at the same time." Are these feelings opposing like the energies that push/pull you? Yes. "The crawling under my skin is somewhat menacing to me, cause it reminds me of a snake crawling under some leaves, with a hump. But as I think about it, the only thing it does is get inside of me and try to push/pull me into the vortex." What's the color of the snake? There is no snake, per say. However, when the entity is crawling under my face, it looks and feels like a snake is crawling. The only different is that I feel a lump rising up in my face every once and a while as it crawl around it. I must mention here that it has only crawled on the left side of my face. When it attempts to go to the right, something or someone wakes me up. I do, however, feel the entity throughout my whole body, but it only moves under the skin in my face. I don't think I mention this, and no one asked, so let me say that within this dream I see everything that is happening to me. I see it and yet it is happening to me at the same time. Peace Savannah ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From: Moderator (opening comment phase) Savannah's dream, "Black Hole," is intense and frightening. I'm sure all of us would like to help her understand and resolve the issues underlying her experience. However, by sticking with the "If this were my dream..." approach and not giving advice about what SHE ought to do, we both release the dreamer from a defensive position, allowing her intuition to work from its own source, AND we really do our OWN work regarding the entities and hobgoblins of our OWN souls. So please keep the DreamWheel instructions in mind as you make this dream your own. Please glance over the instructions then scroll down to the dream, read it and send your comments to the DreamWheel at: dreamwheel@yahoogroups.com. ...... Comment Instructions: In this part of the process, you may comment on the dream. While you are welcome to make any comments you wish, what we are teaching in this group is a non-defensive style developed by John Herbert (Montague Ullman stage II Variation) modified for email. This segment is the one in which each group member takes the dream as if it were his or her own and shares feelings and thoughts about the dream and what it might mean in each member's life situation. 1. You can comment on what ANY aspect of the dream means FOR YOU: a. The feelings YOU have about any aspect of the dream or about the whole dream. b. The metaphorical or symbolic meanings FOR YOU of any actions or images in the dream. c. The relationship between any dream images and events and what that relationship means FOR YOU. d. The relationship between all dream images and events as YOU see them (you can change the order of events and images and present them in the way you feel makes most sense to YOU). 2. In your comments make the dream your own: a. At the beginning of all comments use something like: "If this were my dream..." This sets up the general subjective attitude and works as a reminder to the commentators that they are not telling the dreamer what they think the dream means for the dreamer, but rather what the dream might mean for themselves if they had had that dream. b. To further this relationship to the dream write the commentary as if you were talking about your OWN dream happening NOW (use the first person singular and also present tense in your commentary): >EXAMPLE: Dream: "I'm looking at my mother walking down a long hall towards an open window." I might comment "In MY dream the nurturing mother has found a new way to escape ME." In my comment, it is "my mother", "my hallway" and"my dream". This may or may not provide insight to the initial dreamer, but it's surprising how often this non-defensive approach does lead to new insights for both the dreamer and the commentator. Dreamer's Response: At the end of the comment phase the dream is returned to its source and the dreamer can reply. The type of reply is entirely up to the dreamer - but some response helps both the commentators and the dreamer. It provides closure for the commentators and helps the dreamer to make what was learned in the process more firmly his/her own. .... [Note: the dream is repeated here.] ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From: Deena Well, Savannah, This is certainly a complex dream situation, especially with it being repeated many times. I will admit I took Phyllis's warning to keep the dream as my own with some trepitude. I had started out that way, but soon found myself dissassociating from the dream, trying to not make it my own. But I joined this group understanding the rules, so, I will give it a second run and see what I come up with. Here goes, off the top of my head. (Or maybe I should say, off the tips of my fingers!) If this were my dream I would be, first of all, concerned with the fear it instills in me. I do not ever believe dreams are meant to harm us, but rather to help us. So, if I am feeling this great fear and resistence of this dream, perhaps I should go deeper into that resistence. What is happening here? Something is trying to get into me, but what? I am being pushed and pulled into a vortex, I am afraid of what is on the other side. Some have told me it is evil, a demon. But if that were so, would it not have harmed me in some way? But the results of this dream are not harmful, but rather positive in many ways. The dreams seem to trigger two types of events, one, a surge of writing and creativity, two, a period of increased activity in which I not only function but have many accomplishments. These accomplishments feel alien to me, as if they do not belong to me. Just as the writings seem to come from outside of me. But is that the case? These triggered events are positive things! They are not evil, they are creative and positive in many ways. The writing... some of it makes no sense to me, and that frightens me. I have heard of channeling, I wonder if I may be somehow sensitive to and picking up on a kind of universal consciousness in some of the writing. This too frightens me, because it seems so weird, I am afraid of what others might say. But not all of the writing is like this. Other writing is more personal, poems and prose about me, yet it doesn't seem to come from me either. But I know that many creative people often go into this kind of "zone" where the writing or the art seems to take over. What is it about fiction writers who say that their characters took over the story and told them where to go? Perhaps this is just a very creative side of me taking over at these times. A creative side that is triggered somehow by the dream. I have to ask myself if I may be in fact a very creative person, if these writings and other accomplishments do indeed come from me. Perhaps these were things that were supressed in me as I grew up. Aspects of my own self that I was unable to express when I was young. But the dream, somehow it awakens this in me. Why? Something, a force, coming into me. Is that force none other than my Self? Pushing and pulling me to the vortex. Pushing into me, trying to integrate this creative self with the shy self I know. Pushing and pulling. The images make me think of a birth tunnel. A baby being born, how difficult it must be, how frightening, the trip through the birth canal, the pushing and pulling sensations of labor. This is what the dream feels like to me. My true self, not a monster, just the me that was meant to be, the creative authoritive, talented person that the shy me has denied all these years. She, no, I am trying to merge with myself, trying to become whole, taking myself through the vortex to be born anew, whole and alive. Whew! Okay, Savannah. I don't know if this helps you, but perhaps something there will ring true for you. I think many of us have multiple aspects of who we are that find expression in different parts of our life. But sometimes life and circumstance can cause us, for whatever reason, to supress some of the more sensitive (and often more creative) aspects of our personality. I have seen this in myself and in others. But eventually we learn to accept all parts of our self. We learn to become whole. For some it may happen suddenly, for others it is a life long voyage. But it's never too late to awaken. Blessings, Deena ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From: Kayla Hi Savannah, If this were my dream, I would ask myself how this very scary dream has come to me in the service of my healing and wholeness. I remember that a nightmare is the way my psyche tries to get my attention. A part of my psyche is hurting and screaming for my attention and wants me to look at something in my life that I am simply too afraid to face. I see the whirling dark vortex as a powerful wind of the spirit drawing me in, forcing me to look inward, deeper and deeper within myself, to look at the darkness that sucks away my energy. In waking life, dark vortexes are tornadoes that force me underground, to the basement. As a metaphor, I see the dark vortex forcing me to the basement of my psyche in order to put a face on what lurks there. I am too afraid to find out. The faceless darkness paralyzes me and keeps me from moving, from living, from connecting with those I love. It sneaks up on me. I try to get rid of it, to fight it off. But its there. Just underneath my skin. I feel powerless. This darkness wants me to go deeper, to jump into the black hole that sucks away all my energy, to face the paralyzing darkness. It wants me to feel it so it makes my skin crawl. But I am too afraid to feel it. I don't want to feel it. I am too afraid to face it. Only an outside distraction such as a phone ringing, or noise, releases me from the power of this force. What is this darkness I am so afraid to look at? Perhaps it is my memories of childhood abuse and emotional neglect, or other wounds that I have experienced in life, things I would rather not look at very closely because it feels too painful. Or perhaps it is a part of myself that I really don't like, such as my rage and natural aggression, I don't like to feel angry. Or maybe it is the call of my deeply wounded inner child who is lost in the darkness of her pain and wants me to find her in the black hole in which she is buried. I don't want to feel her grief. While I am too afraid to look at this darkness, to put a face on it, to feel it, I know that only by looking directly into the face of my darkness will I ultimately experience healing and light. It holds the key to my wholeness. Without the shadows my life would be flat, without form, and without contour. The shadows are as important as the light. Thank you for your willingness to share this scary and powerful dream! Kayla ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From Jell Dear Savannah, As my dream, I am afraid to sleep anyway. but when I do, just as I am about to really drift off, I feel the DREAD come upon me. I have felt it since I was a girl. I know I cannot control it, that it will have its way with me. It is so horrible, this dark thing in the night, who is it? Who would attack me in this way? It enters my face, and crawls under my skin. I feel intense disgust. And fear, almost panic. I beg it to leave me, but it will not. there is nothing i can do. I am like a small child being sexually abused, and I can do nothing but go to another place in my mind. But there is no other place. Another place opens up, it is a vortex of whirling darkness. I don't want to go THERE! It is so frightening and horrible to be dragged, and there is no control. But there is a part of me that does want to go there. It's not just curiosity, its the realization that anyplace, absolutely ANYPLACE might be better than enduring this attack on me. I'm just a little girl, I can try to be strong, but I'm not that strong, and I've just lost my mother. I am pushed and pulled, both within and without, but no matter what I think, or plead, or pray, or scream, no one comes to my aid, and there is no help for me! WHY DOESN'T SOMEONE COME TO HELP ME?! I remember that when I was a child, my mother protected me. She is gone now. No one will ever protect me like she did. Instead, I am attacked, over and over again, in the night, and there is no help coming. Whoever is doing this to me opens my mouth wide and violates me inside my mouth, my face, my being. I feel it like a snake under my skin and I can't do anything; I try to scream but I cannot. I know I am awake, but wish I were not; I know I am asleep but wish I were not. There is NOTHING I can do to prevent this, and it happens again, and again, and again. Even if my mind can forget this, my body never can, and this evil, evil attacker does not listen to any of my screams, prayers, or begging. I feel so alone, I think, if my mother were here she would protect me, but I know that's not going to happen, this time at least, so I fight the vortex. This is the dark hole, the point of no return, and thank goodness, I can at least keep myself from being sucked into its nothingness. Because that is, to me, what it is: nothingness, the refuge from painful existence. I am so angry, so outraged, I keep scribbling and scribbling and scribbling but there are no words for this kind of violation to a little girl. My poor little girl, inside me all the time, does not know how to write good english, or even write in cursive. She only knows how to scribble her outrage, and pour it out and out and out. Sorry, Savannah, I went a bit further into this than I meant to. It has helped me too to explore this on your behalf, but I must stop now. Thank you so much for your honesty, and I hope that if I have said things that are not true for you you will remember I was feeling it as "my dream." May many blessings shower you, brave soul. Jell ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From: Antonius If this were my dream i would try to really analyze the fear feeling. Of course thats easier said than done, especially when its the kind of crippling fear that totally freezes you but fear can never been overcome by turning away from it. And i know that no fear that im aware of can ever cripple me because my mind can always overcome it even if it may be a lifelong battle. Maybe i cant see what this tunnel is because of the fear that clouds my mind? The moving through the black tunnel makes me think of moving to something completly new in a spiritual way, some sort of awareness, the feeling of being reborn. And of course its scary because i dont know what awaits me on the other side or do i? Maybe some part of me does know whats on the other side because i get the feeling that i will awaken but im really afraid of the changes that may come if i complete the journey. Then there is this strange force trying to get into me and take me over. I dont really think its evil or some sort of spirit even if i do believe in spirits, i think its a part of myself. Maybe some part of myself that i have totally shut out from me and now it try to force itself on me. Not a very tactfull way i have to admit but maybe its the only way it can make me aware of its existance. Then it try to force me through this tunnel and i am a little curious but mostly frightened. Of course it scares me, it feels like i have no control over where i am heading. And it doesn't help to talk to it or beg it or even be angry at it because the last thing it wants is to leave me. Then there is these strange writings that comes from some part thats not me. What scares me most is not where they come from, it is that others will think im crazy. That i pick up this information from some other source, whenever it is some sort of universal consciousness or some other part of myself, doesn't really scares me. Maybe this tunnel is a connection with that thing? Maybe that force somehow wants to force me though this tunnel and into contact with the same source that gives the information that appears in the writings? Maybe that source is some higher part of myself? Antonius ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From: RC Savannah, If this were my dream, and I had been having it on and off since I was a child, and it's still scaring me, I would approach it this way... Two things that I remember very clearly from studying Jeremy Taylor's writings... One, is that "dreams come to us in the service of health and wholeness." There is nothing "bad" about dreams; they are just trying to get my attention so that they may teach me and help me become whole and healthy. Two, Even if a dream is bringing up information that is scary to me, I need to trust that I am indeed ready to learn what it has to teach me. If I was not ready to learn, I simply would not remember the dream. So the fact that I am now sharing it in a community, is a signal that I am ready to deal with it and learn from it. That said, this is what I think the dream is about (were it my dream)... There is something that happened to me when I was a child one time (or many times), just about when I was ready to fall asleep. It was a terrible, scary thing that happened, and it violated me. Ever since then, I have associated falling asleep with being violated. As long as I am fighting and afraid in this dream, I will be fighting and afraid in waking life too. As scary as it may seem, I think that it is time to let go of the resistance, and let the darkness overcome me. I have been fighting it all of my life. If it were my dream, I would consciously decide, before attempting to sleep, that I am willing to go into the dream, and take it to the next scene... to go into the vortex; to allow the force to enter me, and see what it has to teach me. Scary? Definitely. But what is worse? Being scared at night? Or being scared all my life? To take care of myself, though, I would do one of two things: Either, make sure that I do this on a weekend when I have time to recover and to write after awakening (and set an alarm to make sure that I do); Or, arrange to have a loving/supportive friend call and awaken me and listen to me as I tell her/him what I have learned. Good luck Savannah, I hope that you will keep in touch and let us know what learning you find - even if it is many months from now. (And if you would like, I would be willing to be the person/witness on the other end of the telephone for you). RC ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From: Susan Hi Savannah, Thanks for presenting your dream. I hope you will be able to gain some resolution or transformation of it. When I first read your dream, I thought about it from a scientific point of view. When people fall asleep, they usually lose consciousness, then their body becomes paralyzed. When they dream, they usually can not move their body. Before they awake, they regain control over their movements. But sometimes people gain consciousness before they are able to move their body again. This has only happened to me once or twice, and I found that to be very scary. I just let it go and I was able to get my movement back again. Anyway, I think I'd like to read more about this subject in the sleep disorders literature to see how it is explained and treated. When I process the dream, I think about several things: Ambivalence about death. Wanting to be with relatives who have passed over verses fear of death/unknown. Letting go (i.e. all the pain, fear, anger, etc. of my life) verses safety/survival instincts that protect me from others and myself. There's a whole psychology based upon attachment, about how we make and break bonds. How we spend our entire lives dealing with loss (i.e. loss of parents, loss of youth, loss of innocence, loss of opportunities, loss of health, etc., and ultimately the loss of our lives). Some individuals have discussed spirits and demons. I don't have any experience with that. But I think more about the shadow, parts of ourselves that we disown or fail to recognize. I think there are strong emotions that are repressed, negative emotions like anger (for me) about situations where my needs for were not met and where it was not permissible to express my emotions. I have not done much exploring via my dreams (because of fear?). I'm lucky if I remember them. But in real life, I am a bit of a sensation seeker. I've been to a water slide park where you get sucked through a waterfall into a black hole (a covered flume) on a single or double inner tube. Anyway, it was a thrill. A thrill I thought was relatively safe. So I did it again and again... And I thought about being reborn.... But if I was REALLY afraid, I would take someone else along with me. Thanks again for your dream. I'm fascinated by the creativity that arises out of adversity. I think about the untapped potential in each of us. Susan ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From: Pixie Dear Savannah, I'm sorry my comments are so late, I've had a busy week. In my dream, I am travelling through space, rapidly through a tunnel, in which I move horizontally. Because I am in my sleep body, I feel vulnerable, and I feel as though I have relinquished control to God, the universal powers, to something larger than me. My Mother died, and I wonder where she is now. My religious education would lead me to believe that she was exhalted as one of heaven's finest. But there is an empty space in my life, and try as I might, through my husband, my brothers and sister, and my own children, no one has given me that type of warmth and nurturing again. I've wished for some kind of psychic commuication with her, but when I've looked to the sky and called out her name; only the wind answers me. I have given alot of thought to mortality. My mother's, other family members, and my own. I hear the stories people tell about the tunnel of death...but on the other side of this is the light of perfect love. Why I don't reach the other side of the tunnel becomes real. It is not yet my time. In my dream I feel the tunel represents two things. The void in my life where important people have been, and Death, asking me to accept and be aware of "him". If I imagine Death as being a person, like the "angel of death", and I try to make this in my mind's eye, a beautiful strong, handsome, loving black angel, with deep purple wings, and a dark blue flowing robe, I can reconcile somewhat, my fear of the unknown, and of dying. Death is just doing his job, coming to get us when it is time to leave this earthly plane. The entity I feel in my room is possibly something I have created from the unanswered questions I have had everytime someone has passed away. It is a big "?". I have been told what to beleieve but I have always questioned, and felt myself guilty for my lack of fait in the Almighty. I also feel that it is entirely possible that when I travel down the tunnel, I could be bringing something back, something which is attatching itself to me. It is borrowing my energy, and I must reclaim this. The key to solving this riddle-like dream for me is to "Take back" my control. To put things in perspective. I chose to be born, I one day will chose to die. But now, I choose to live, to my fullest, and I will not give away my precious energy, anymore. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From Molly Hello Savannah. Thank you for trusting us with your frightening dream and giving us the opportunity to work with our own "demons." I hope you find something helpful in our comments. In my dreams I don't know if I'm asleep or awake, so I must be on the boundary between my conscious and unconscious, and it seems something unconscious is trying to get through to me. It pulls and pushes at me; I feel both drawn in and repelled. It's a dark tunnel, a great Unknown, and I want to know and am afraid to know. When I try to stop myself I feel pressured and find I cannot move, cannot awaken. The tunnel feels like a birth canal - is this a rebirth I am not yet ready to undergo? Am I not yet ready to awaken to my full potential? Yet I sense something is waiting for me. I feel the energy moving within me, trying to break through, and I hear myself speaking, hear my echo pleading, as if there is a great emptiness all around me. It feels like this energy is trying to trick me. I don't trust it, and certainly don't understand it. Though I can see that some good has come out of these dreams - energy for life choices, creative inspiration and expression - I know that I must not surrender to this force that assaults me. And yet, I don't want to kill it. What I want is to understand it and have some control. I know that it is not evil, because it comes from within me and I am not evil. So if this were my dream I would want to confront this force and dialogue with it to find ways we might work together. I would think this through while awake, practicing what I might say and imagining how the energy might respond and how I would respond to that - and then, as I am falling asleep, I would focus on trying to bring this into the dream. I might want to ask the force how it might help me. I might thank it for the good that has come out of it. I might ask its name. I might imagine a different outcome. I also might read about lucid dreaming to help me bridge the gap between conscious and unconscious. Most of all, if this were my dream, I would relax and remember that a dream cannot harm me. Molly ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From: Savannah Beloved Dream Wheelers: When I read your comments, over and again, my hands trembled and I cried tears of joy. Something deep inside of me was moved by each word, as you made my dream your own. For a moment, I felt like I was being pushed in and pulled out of the dark hole & in my waking hour. I felt like I was being reborn in each series of comments. Here I am, surrounded by strangers, behind glass screens, telling them of my most intimate moment with self. You, with seemingly, no race, creed, or idea of who I am; except through the dark hole I am in, that also served as a key to the color of my skin, as well as, the place of my torment. Strangers, willing to walk in my shoes, to help me heal the inside me, that has fought for fifty-two years, to be free. My goodness, reliving, each of you, reliving my dream, making it your own, Wow! I have never in my life seen anything like this before. I once was blind, but now I see. I know now these words have a meaning for me & I used to think I knew about slavery, until I encounter the enslavement of myself. I used to think I would never have a life, doomed to live in a world filled with strife. Afraid of succeeding, pursuing failure like it was a badge of honor. Judging all, except this me that I am and cursing myself for betraying myself, proclaiming myself as one of the walking dead. How can I say thanks to you, beloved dream wheelers? How can you know what you have done for me, unless I open myself, and allow you to see that now I understand, without fear, what everyone is talking about, in these troubled times & this unity. No brothers, no sisters, just souls helping souls to awaken & There are all sorts of heroes/heroine and my heart goes out to the innocence folks that died on September 11, 2001. Nevertheless, I dare say, you are my heroes/heroines today. For during this crisis, where it was hard for me to see that being united was a good thing to be, even if I felt that, my country had betrayed and discriminated against me. That forgiveness and unity is good, for a new beginning & like a baby being born, a clean slate, and an empty tape to be filled with life. I don t know where this awakening will take me, but I do know, from here on, I will be traveling with my eyes open. Forever aware of my dark hole and the road to my soul, enjoying this me that I am and hope to be; free, to live for the first time, risking myself to be myself, to enjoy life boldly. May god/goddess, or whatever name you give to your higherself, grant to each of you, individually and collectively, a happy boon that rises each day to bring you joy. Including the knowing that each of you, unseen with flesh eyes, rest within this heart; that you have had mercy on, this day. You are my heroes/heroines, the invisible faces that I see in the face of hope, a new dawn for me. I used to think I knew who god/goddess was until I encountered each of you. Where I will begin is not as important as were I am, right now. Where I am right now, is not as important at where I will begin. I feel good, yes, I do, yes I do! I feel good! Upon my word, I dare say & my soul rejoices this day, which is the first day of the rest of my life. For once, a clich‚ that feels just right. Alas, a baby is born becoming a child, becoming a girl, becoming a young lady, becoming a woman, each born at the same time, in an instance & right before your eyes. Moreover, I marveled, beloved, at your unity, and pleasantly surprise at your willingness to bypass self and help me. For each of you have joined as one to become the midwife of my deliverance. Know this within your soul, that some parts of my truth, of who I am, you all have spoken to, and like a puzzle, I have connected the pieces. Whereas I understand the lost of the metaphorical biblical Lot, who lost his wife because she looked back, the divine dichotomy of it all is that I love salt. Salt, like the human element, is the seasons of life, without which, living would be so bland. I am sad for Lot s wife, but even in death she served a unique purpose, she put spice into his life. So it will be with my dark hole. Bowing my head, in meditation & in prayer & I give thanks, and bless the day each of you was born, honored to be in your path, right now. If you desire, each of you may communicate with me individually or collectively, or call on me if I can be of service to you. For each of you, are apart of me now, acknowledged. I have a surprise for you, which I am testing out even as I write this. Something inside me is and has changed and is acting on the outside .. something wonderful. I am headed to the place of my birth, ________. There are things that I must put in motion so that all of this will not be in vain. I must wave goodbye to the past, taking the good from it, like the salt, and leaving the other behind, so that change can come about and thus my life will begin. I will email all changes and happening to each of you that commented as it happen. For I feel you should, because of your kindness, know what you have given birth to. I shall keep in touch and let you know how it goes. Damn, I feel good! Thank you Lady Phyliss and feel free to post this to the Dreamwheeler board if you do desire, or to anyone I might have missed. If you didn't get a personal copy of this it mean your email address is incorrect. Thank you, thank you all and peace and blessings! Also I welcome any more comments .. but I had to respond now. I am all things and no name. I am Savannah. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From: L.D.P Dear Savannah, I was very moved by your dream, your answers to other people's questions, and your response to the first group of comments you received. Thank you for sharing yourself so openly with us. If this were my dream, I would keep in mind what Jeremy Taylor says about the purpose of nightmares: that they come to warn us that there's a "survival issue" at stake--but the survival is not about our body, but about our authentic self. When I'm not being true to myself, or when I'm about to do something that would violate who I really am, then I'll have a nightmare to warn me to get back on track. Usually when I'm not being true to myself, it's because I'm being pressured by someone--or by society as a whole--to be different from who I really am. Also, there may be a part of me that I'm not in touch with, so I may not even know who that part of me really is. (This is usually the result of messages I got from my parents and/or society when they didn't like who I was, so I suppressed my authentic self in order to be accepted and loved. Now the nightmare is coming to tell me that I need to reclaim the rejected parts of myself.) In my dream, the black tunnel is both a birth canal and the tunnel that people pass through when they have a Near Death Experience. In either case, if I go through the tunnel, I will find light at the end. I will die to my old life, and I will be birthed into a new life. The harder I fight against the force that wants to push me into the tunnel, the harder it presses me. This force really knows what is good for me, and it isn't going to give up! Of course I resist going through the tunnel, because it's terrifying to "die." I'm very attached to the way I am, even though my life is painful in many ways. At least I know what my life is like know, and that gives me some security. It's terrifying to give up being the way I am, without knowing who I'll be next. But this is the only way I can change and grow. The old me has to die before the new me can be born. (Someone gave me an example that helps me with this concept: The "girl who didn't know how to tie her shoes" has to die so that "the girl who knows how to tie her shoes" can be born. Children have many dreams of death because they go through so many changes in such a short time.) I'm afraid that I will "lose sight of myself or who I am." But if I grow, I will be able to see the new me as well as the old me--so I'll actually see more of who I am. I am scared that I can only awaken from this dream if someone or something outside me makes a noise or shakes me. For me, this is because the dream isn't finished yet. If I go through the tunnel and see what happens on the other side, the dream will unfold naturally and I will wake up naturally. It's only because I don't allow the dream to continue that it doesn't stop on its own. (By the way, I believe what others have said--that dreams come to us for the purpose of our health and wholeness. I don't believe we can be harmed by dreams. I may be scared or physically hurt inside the dream, but when I wake up no damage had been done by the dream itself--although I may be hurt by my response to the dream if I misinterpret it and act according to my misunderstanding.) If it were my dream, it would be directly related to my sleep disorder. I think that if I can allow the dream to unfold naturally, I will start sleeping naturally too. And if I get the "message" of the dream, then it will stop! Dreams don't come to tell us what we already know, so once I understand it, there will be no reason for me to have it--at least not until the next time in my life when I'm doing something that isn't true to who I am. But by then I'll know what to do--and if I go into the tunnel again, I'll be fine. It's significant to me that when the entity enters me, it only moves under the skin of my face. Our skin and face are part of our "persona"--the part of ourselves that we present to the world. If my persona does not fit with my authentic self (probably because I've been taught to be ashamed of some part of myself and am hiding it), then the entity is trying to get under my skin and change my persona. If this were my dream, I would ask myself: In what ways doesn't my persona really fit me? Maybe I could literally make some changes in my face, e.g. in the make-up I wear (or don't wear). Or maybe the "face" is more symbolic, and I could make other changes in the way I present myself to the world (hair, clothes, the way I speak, sit, walk, etc.) I'm also struck by the fact that the crawling under my skin feels like a snake. Snakes are a symbol of transformation, because they shed their skins and are "born" again with a new skin. Again, my dream is telling me that I need to "die" before I can be reborn with a new "skin." (The new skin makes me think of the new persona again.) I'm also interested that the "snake" only crawls on the left side of my face. My left side is my feminine side, so if it were my dream the change the dream is asking me to make has to do with my feminine nature. Because this dream started after my mother died, I wonder if some part of my feminine nature-- maybe a part of me that identified with my mother--shut down at that time. And ever since then the dream has been trying to get me to reclaim that part of myself. At the very least, my life changed dramatically after my mother died, and I had to repress some part of me in order to deal with the new situation. If other people's expectations of me changed after my mother died, and I tried to live up to their expectations, then I had to repress authentic parts of myself to meet their expectations. If the dream causes me to write, and if the writing that comes from the dream calms me down, I would want to start writing on a regular basis--even when I haven't had the dream. Maybe the dream is telling me that I'm a writer. Or maybe I just need to journal for self-expression. Either way, if I write by choice on a regular basis, then maybe I won't feel compelled to write as a result of the dream. It would be a lot less scary for me to write by choice than by compulsion! And if a lot of the writing I do after the dream is about things I try not to remember about my life, I would try to write about these things by choice. If writing about them as they actually happened is too scary, I could write about them in fiction, as if they happened to someone else. If even this is too hard, I might want to find a good therapist to talk about these things with. (There are "transpersonal" therapists who specialize in spiritual experiences--which is how I see this dream and the things it makes me do--and who won't think I'm crazy. A good transpersonal therapist will realize that I'm going through a spiritual crisis, and will help me work toward the spiritual awakening that this crisis can lead to.) Whenever I repress my memories, they cause me more pain than if I remember them. (I usually get pschosomatic symptoms--and nightmares!) I hope this is helpful. I think you're an incredibly brave woman, and I wish you the best of luck in working through the issues that the dream has raised for you. Best wishes, L.C.D. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From: Savannah L.C.D., You don't know how many times you hit the nail on the head with this one. I really apprecaite the effort you put into your comments. Know that I will take them to heart. - Savannah ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From: Rod Dear Savannah, if this where my dream.... when I start to see myself in the dream, I can feel the force entering from the back and pushing and pulling towards the vortex. My face is to the North. I try to wake up but there's no use unless something external awakes me. This scene reminds me about how much I like to control things. I always try to understand everything before I give it a try. I don't like to go blind when I make some decisions. I look North because I want to have a sense of direction, as the North start will represent this. But suddenly, from the back (which is the part I cannot see from myself) enters the force. It is like if this force knows how weak I am about not seeing/controling things. The force starts to pull/push and this sensation reminds me about how I go trough life... it's like if I wanted to strugle in order to feel I was alive, I never give myself a chance to just be there, just to breath. I always have to be doing something, to be productive... and that vortex... it's like no ground under my feet, I can't stand not having some ground under my feet... I just remember I have a body... and I treat it the same way... always pushing/pulling because there's always something to do, someone to help... and where does this take me ?... I realize my mind is very active... it doesn't like to stand just for a moment... What's the hurry ? I start to think that I'm a prisoner of my own crazy mind. A sensation in my face... like a lump... could it be that something inside me wants to get out ? I think I will experiment with something new in my life... something which I don't control myself, I will let my body to do what it pleases... why not some handwriting... I will let the hand do what it wants and see what happens... Interesting. Very pleasant and scary, like the push/pull loop. Where does it take me ? To the vortex... to something which is not hard ground... here control doesn't have place... I just let my self at something else's hands... can this something else be a subconscious mind ?... I don't know, it's out of my reach..? After this experience I feel very inspired... like the lump, something comes from inside me... Why am I scared then ?... It seems that I don't want to give up control... if I go through the vortex I will have to give it up... to let go... I don't want to loose control... again the push/pull... Rod ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From: Savannah Oh my goodness Rod .. Oh my goodness. Thank you! - Savannah >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>End of Session<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< We invite you to join us on the DreamWheel. There are currently 173 members on the Wheel, so obviously "lurking" is fine (you're also welcome to participate of course). Just send an email to dreamwheel-subscribe@yahoogroups.com or drop me a line at pthowing@earthlink.net. Or try out this dreamwork process in your own online groups. Phyllis Howing, DreamWheel moderator Richard Wilkerson, DreamWheel founder ======================================================= ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Developing Your Own Dreamwork Ethics Richard Wilkerson =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- The question of ethical dreamwork is about the acceptable behavior related to values. However, what is valued will differ from individual to individual and situation to situation. Thus the ideas of transparency and disclosure have become important in relation with ethical standards and behavior. These ideas are even more important in an online global community where people from vastly different value systems may be interacting. Basically, the productive application of disclosure and transparency mean that your group is up-front about what they expect from one another and from other groups and individuals. Can the group tell others outside the group what they heard during a group discussion, or are some or all of the conversations confidential and only shared within the group? Whether offline or online, dream sharing group boundaries of behavior are not standardized and especially open to a wide variance of unspoken expectations. Dreamwork flows between the boundaries of therapy, spirituality, the occult, personal growth, the arts and grassroots support groups. Each of these large fields of behavior have their own sub- sets of groups, each with their own values, goals and expectations. Adding to this the multicultural differences brought about by global communications multiplies the variance an makes the task of developing clear and accessible ethical guidelines ever more urgent. What I would like to recommend here is that you as an individual develop your own ethical statement, and then use this when you join a group as a measure to decide if the group is going to fit for you. If you would like help in developing this personal statement, you are in luck, as many people in the Association for the Study of Dreams have been working on this process for sometime. The Association for the Study of Dreams (ASD) is a non- profit, international, multidisciplinary organization dedicated to the pure and applied investigation of dreams and dreaming. Their purposes are to promote an awareness and appreciation of dreams in both professional and public arenas; to encourage research into the nature, function, and significance of dreaming; to advance the application of the study of dreams; and to provide a forum for the eclectic and interdisciplinary exchange of ideas and information. In 1997 the ASD Ethics Committee, Chaired by Carol Warner, developed a dreamwork ethics statement that could be used as a guide for weighing and evaluating the ethics of a dream sharing venue or group. http://www.asdreams.org/ethics.htm In 2000, Ed Kellogg provided a template which could be used for other groups to develop similar ethical statements. http://www.asdreams.org/dreamwork_ethics_template.htm "We (or name of organization/website) celebrate the many benefits of dreamwork, yet recognizes that there are potential risks. We agree with the ethical position taken by the Association for the Study of Dreams (link to ASDs ethical statement page), in that we support an approach to dreamwork and dream sharing that respects the dreamer's dignity and integrity, and which recognizes the dreamer as the decision-maker regarding the significance of the dream. Systems of dreamwork that assign authority or knowledge of the dream's meanings to someone other than the dreamer can be misleading, incorrect, and harmful. Ethical dreamwork helps the dreamer work with his/her own dream images, feelings, and associations, and guides the dreamer to more fully experience, appreciate, and understand the dream. Every dream may have multiple meanings, and different techniques may be reasonably employed to touch these multiple layers of significance. A dreamer's decision to share or discontinue sharing a dream should always be respected and honored. The dreamer should be forewarned that unexpected issues or emotions may arise in the course of the dreamwork. Information and mutual agreement about the degree of privacy and confidentiality are essential ingredients in creating a safe atmosphere for dream sharing. Dreamwork outside a clinical setting is not a substitute for psychotherapy, or other professional treatment, and should not be used as such. We recognize and respect that there are many valid and time- honored dreamwork traditions. We invite and welcome the participation of dreamers from all cultures. There are social, cultural, and transpersonal aspects to dream experience. In this statement we do not mean to imply that the only valid approach to dreamwork focuses on the dreamer's personal life. Our purpose is to honor and respect the person of the dreamer as well as the dream itself, regardless of how the relationship between the two may be understood." --------- The Electric Dreams used this template to create their own statement below. Note that the Electric Dreams community has several dream sharing venues, some of which follow this guide and other that don't. The DreamWheel, for example, follows the guides very closely as it is an intimate sharing in a confidential setting among peers. However, the Electric Dreams e-zine is a free speech forum for dreams and dreamers, and thereby allows a wider range of response that is less moderated and guided by the ethics statement. "Electric Dreams DreamWheel Dreamwork Ethics Statement" The Electric Dreams community celebrates the many benefits of dreamwork, yet recognizes that there are potential risks. We agree with the ethical position taken by the Association for the Study of Dreams (http://www.asdream.org), in that we support an approach to dreamwork and dream sharing that respects the dreamer's dignity and integrity, and which recognizes the dreamer as the decision-maker regarding the significance of the dream. Systems of dreamwork that assign authority or knowledge of the dream's meanings to someone other than the dreamer can be misleading, incorrect, and harmful. Ethical dreamwork helps the dreamer work with his/her own dream images, feelings, and associations, and guides the dreamer to more fully experience, appreciate, and understand the dream. Every dream may have multiple meanings, and different techniques may be reasonably employed to touch these multiple layers of significance. A dreamer's decision to share or discontinue sharing a dream should always be respected and honored. The dreamer should be forewarned that unexpected issues or emotions may arise in the course of the dreamwork. Information and mutual agreement about the degree of privacy and confidentiality are essential ingredients in creating a safe atmosphere for dream sharing. Dreamwork outside a clinical setting is not a substitute for psychotherapy, or other professional treatment, and should not be used as such. We recognize and respect that there are many valid and time- honored dreamwork traditions. We invite and welcome the participation of dreamers from all cultures. There are social, cultural, and transpersonal aspects to dream experience. In this statement we do not mean to imply that the only valid approach to dreamwork focuses on the dreamer's personal life. Our purpose is to honor and respect the person of the dreamer as well as the dream itself, regardless of how the relationship between the two may be understood. The Electric Dreams Community, March 2000 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- The DreamGate Course on the History of Dreams Richard Catlett Wilkerson =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- The DreamGate History of Dreams class online was originally developed to deepen the level of dream sharing that could take place online in the mid 1990's. It was part of a larger DreamGate project, which included developing dream networks through the Net via the Electric Dreams e-zine, developing dream sharing groups via the DreamWheels, and bringing dream organizations online. The DreamWheel seemed the perfect vehicle for teaching grassroots dreamwork online. People could join anonymously, they could participate on their own time schedule and they would be led by a moderator through some key moves that are useful in any dream sharing venue. Yet some kind of depth was missing, as if those new to the process picked up the strokes very quickly, but were afraid to swim in deep waters where ideas mutate beyond recognition and radically new forms of interaction emerge. Since this was often a person's first exposure to dreamwork, I didn't want to alter change this process itself to force this kind of situation. Part of this was due to the medium, sharing of text based dreams. As Herbert, Olsen and Bosnak have all noted, the absence of face-to-face, real-time connections that include voice tend to favor reflective intuition over emotional processing. Still, I felt that ideas, notions, concepts and images could find more profound expression in the online dreamwork process. I had been very impressed with the idea behind Mircea Eliade's _A History of Religious Ideas_ "For years I have had in mind a short, concise work, which could be read in a few days." (xv).(2) I wanted something similar for dreamwork, a way for people to get in a very short time some profoundly intense ways to work with dreams. The second challenge was to make the course for a wide group of people. Some people are interested in dreams for psychological reasons, others for spiritual reasons, and others for aesthetic and reasons of just plain curiosity. Part of this was handled by offering a wide spectrum of topics, but part of this was also handled by finding a common difference, a thing that mattered to people in all these disciplines. This key turned out to be personal empowerment, becoming the authority of one's own processes. Each of these lessons would hinge on finding in the theory that particular set of techniques and ideas that allow a person the freedom to create their own meaning in value in relation with the world around them. The world would turn out to be the cosmos that includes the dreamworld, the waking world, the potential worlds and many, many other worlds and their inhabitants. In all encounters, there seems to be protocols that allow us to interact, and then something that breaks through, an encounter with an Other at a point of intensity where repetitive habits leave off and new forms emerge. Each dreamwork that affects us will have some of each. They will have enough protocol and hand shaking to establish a temporary field or territory, and enough deterritorialization for the swarm of novel interactions to emerge. In the primitive night, a circle will be drawn and an autonomous field of dance will emerge from the DreamTime and distribute hordes of multiple beings across the networks of the earth. Freud will establish a whole host of boundaries and confidentialities so that the free associations can emerge from behind the taboos and repressions. Jung will bring all the arts into play to allow the most indefinable elements of the psyche to express themselves in a field beyond what could have beforehand been imagined. Mednard Boss will force us to continue facing the surface until it becomes so intense that the prison door melts and we learn that a dream image is not something we have, but something that has us. Fritz Perls will keep pushing, past the game playing, past the bull, past the fear, to a center so hot it will fuse once disparate fragments of psyche into a fully expressive being. Lucid dreamers have learned this trick. With practice and focus, the dreamer gives birth to him/herself in a temporary autonomous zone of freedom. This improvised universe, or Improverse, allows us the freedom to connect with new worlds, build new relations and multiply their possibilities to infinity. Thus each module in the History of Dreams course is set up to first establish a protocol of communication and techniques related with that particular dreamwork theory, and then to allow the dreamer to use his or her own dreams to use the protocols find the breakthrough points. These points will be different for everyone, and some protocols will appeal to some and not others. What people break- through *to* will be different as well. Protocols are simply conventions, agreed upon codes, which allow networks of relations to last long enough for a person to cross over and enter into them. If I put my hand out to shake hands with you, and you take my hand, chances are that we have agreed upon a particular network of codes. We can go different directions. We can leave it at that, like two statesmen agreeing to contract which will have future binding powers, or we may mutually use that time to connect more personally, to break-through our distance and enter into a temporary zone of friendship. Either way, we have created a virtual reality, a field that is held together by shared protocol. These shared fields empower us, enable us to take actions within the limits of their range and scope and relevancy. I have also set the course up so that at some point, at many points, it may become clear that the dream itself is its own protocol and break-through to itself. All fields have this double nature, the to-be-crossed and the place we crossed to-get-to. Some will always see dreams as representations, as referring to something else, be that a reference to how to live one's life better, a reference to the state of one's psyche, a message from God or the Unconscious on how behave, or a image of the past or future. These are all parts of the dream, but there is also the dream-in-itself. If I said to my friend, "Hey, thanks for that cup of tea, now I'm going to interpret you and why you gave it to me", then my friend is likely to do more than raise an eyebrow. There is a kind of intrusive offense at missing the point of teatime in referring the special time and my friend who hosted it to be only representatives of something else. Every protocol has its own break-through, and when an intrusive break-through is applied to a protocol, the field can collapse, the zone disappears. This is not always a bad thing. Knowing how to subvert repressive zones of protocol is as important to empowerment as engendering connections with creative fields of intensity. Still, there will always be the call to things themselves. This is not always just play land. Rather, it's more like how we move in an art gallery, from works of art that represent things, to works of art which don't, or only represent themselves. It's not always playful. Jackson Pollock is often no less serious than Rembrandt, nor Rembrandt at times less playful than Miro. This history of representation in Art follows very closely the history of dream interpretation. Early cave paintings and early dreams were players in a mythic landscape of ensouled regions. Kinship filiations and tribal alliances marked the body to signal the flows of life and death. Biocosmic gods sent messages through the art marks and through dreams. With the rise of kings and pharaohs, the messages and marks on the art began to refer only to these kings and the gods above them. During the Renaissance they began referring to hu/man him/herself, and in the renaissance of dreamwork (somewhat later) dreams began referring to hu/man and the meaning of his/her life and his/her objects. Finally, in modern art, the representations finally give way to pure abstractions that refer to nothing beyond themselves, and dreams to begin to wrap their significations back around themselves. Postmodern art finds itself in a predicament. From representation of an Other to presentation of itself, the theatre of dreams and art in the postmodern world seem destined to be collages and replay and rehashing of previous periods. Yet something novel emerges despite the seeming appearance in the day residue of the past. At first we can only see this out of the corner of our eyes. Our peripheral vision can catch glimpses of this new world. It's not something we can control, and so it's not something we can represent. The grand stories that held the world together have fallen apart and there is no single value system that can rise up and cover the globe in harmony. Of course, there never was, we all see this now. Each idea that we push past its limit becomes a tyrant at the limit of its deployment. Still we continue to paint, continue to dream. We have each become responsible for that which used to be help up by grand narratives. We are free from any particular representation, but we haven't quite freed ourselves from representation itself. Like a Zen student who casts off the world of attachments and doesn't yet see this casting off is an attachment in itself, the postmodern dreamworker completes the world of representation by coming a full circle and entering back into connection with them in a new way, stopping for a moment having taken them in a full breath, recording the possibilities and blowing them back again across a new world which remain while the dream and the real collide. - Richard Wilkerson http://www.dreamgate.com/class This six week class is conducted online. Participants will get a full survey of the history of dreams and dreamwork, from ancient Thrace to Cyberspace. All are encouraged to join the Electric Dreams DreamWheel as well. $29.95 Classes start at the first of each month. Class Syllabus: History of Dreams Module 1. Introduction and Basic Recall Skills: The Peer- Relations Approach ---- Sign-up for online dream groups. Module 2. Ancient Dreams: Messages from the Gods Module 3. Sigmund Freud: The Dream-work of the Unconscious Module 4. Carl Gustav Jung: Mythic Dreams and Wholeness Module 5. Other Pre- 1960's Dream Theories (Adler, Boss, Surrealists) Module 6. Frederick (Fritz) Perls : Gestalt Dream Techniques Module 7. Mindell and Gendlin: The DreamBody Module 8. From Couch to Culture: Grassroots & Modern Dreamwork Movements Module 9. Non-Interpretive Dreamwork: Lucid, Mutual, Paranormal & Pro-active Dreaming Module 10. Dream Science and Dreamwork: Friends or Foes? Module 11. Dream Anthropology: How Culture Influences Dreamwork Module 12. Dreaming In Cyberspace: New Trends in Dream Sharing on the Internet Supplements: o Freud's Dream-work - a model of primary process. o Jung: Me and my shadow, Beyond and through the personal, Jung and dreams. o Dreams and Health: The Revival of Ancient Dream Healing in Modern Medicine. o Couch to Culture: Montague Ullman and Walter Bonime. o Nightmares: New approaches and techniques. o Dreams and Western Religions: An account of what happened. References (1) Wilkerson, Richard C. (1999). A Brief History of Dream Sharing: Theory, Techniques and Practice. San Francisco, CA: DreamGate. (2) Eliade, Mircea (1978). A History of Religious Ideas. Vol 1. Chicago, IL: University of Chicago Press. "Alas, that short, concise book has not yet been written." xv <<<<<<<<<<<<<<|||||||>>>>>>>>>>>|||||<<<<<<<<<<<< G L O B A L D R E A M I N G N E W S November 2001 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<|||||||>>>>>>>>>>>|||||<<<<<<<<<<<< If you have news you'd like to share, contact Peggy Coats, pcoats@dreamtree.com. Visit Global Dreaming News online at http://www.dreamtree.com/News/global.htm. This Month's Features: NEWS - New York Dream Group RESEARCH & REQUESTS - Dreams Surrounding 9-11 Needed - World Trade Center Attack Dreams Sought WEBSITE & ONLINE UPDATES - 9-11 Collections & Surveys - An Alternative to Dream Orthodoxy - Revelatorium - Luminous Dreams DREAM CALENDAR for November 2001 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<|||||||>>>>>>>>>>>|||||<<<<<<<<<<<< N E W S <<<<<<<<<<<<<<|||||||>>>>>>>>>>>|||||<<<<<<<<<<<< >>>> New York Dream Group For anyone in the New York City are, here is information on a dream group Dreams provide guidance and reveal opportunities for growth especially when needed most, such as during periods of loss and transition. This group seeks to create supportive relationships among members and to help participants use dreams to explore and discuss feelings related to a variety of life issues. * No prior experience working with dreams is required. * Members will learn techniques, such as how to keep a dream log, how to remember dreams upon waking or capture forgotten dreams, and how to discover hidden meanings in dreams. Ann Goelitz, a certified social worker and dream work practitioner with experience running this type of group, will facilitate. WHEN: Thursday evenings, 6:00 PM - 7:30 PM, November 1 - December 13 WHERE: 330 W. 58th Street, Suite 503 (at Columbus Circle) COST: $30 per session, $180 for all six sessions HOW: Call Ann Goelitz at (212)561-1633 to register and/or discuss group. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<|||||||>>>>>>>>>>>|||||<<<<<<<<<<<< R E S E A R C H & R E Q U E S T S <<<<<<<<<<<<<<|||||||>>>>>>>>>>>|||||<<<<<<<<<<<< >>>> Dreams Surrounding 9-11 Needed Ernest Hartmann has been studying for many years the dreams of people who have experienced a serious trauma. He believes that all of us experienced a serious trauma on September 11, 2001. Therefore he would be most grateful for help from any of you who have been keeping a dream log or regularly recording your dreams for some time, and who would be willing to share some of them with him. If this description fits you and you'd like to participate, what he would need is a copy of your last ten dreams recorded before 9/11/01, and your first ten dreams starting the evening of 9/11/01. I need the dreams exactly as they are written. Do not select particular dreams, omit dreams, or alter dreams in any way (except to omit or change people's names if you wish). Your dreams will be treated with complete respect and confidentiality. For more information, please contact Ernest Hartmann M.D., at EHDream@AOL.com. >>>> World Trade Center Attack Dreams Sought Marc Ian Barasch, author of Healing Dreams, is looking for dreams pertaining to the World Trade Center attack, particularly premonitory dreams that may have occurred prior to the tragedy. Anyone interested in sharing a dream may email him at healpath@aol.com <<<<<<<<<<<<<<|||||||>>>>>>>>>>>|||||<<<<<<<<<<<< W E B S I T E & O N L I N E U P D A T E S <<<<<<<<<<<<<<|||||||>>>>>>>>>>>|||||<<<<<<<<<<<< Do you know of interesting new websites you'd like to share with others? Or do you have updates to existing pages? Help spread the word by using the Electric Dreams DREAM-LINK page www.dreamgate.com/dream/resources/online97.htm. This is really a public projects board and requires that everyone keep up his or her own link URLs and information. Make a point to send changes to the links page to us. >>>> 9-11 Collections and Surveys The effects of the tragic attacks on New York have resonated with many of us and are affecting our dreams. The following list is an online survey of 9-11 related dream collections and related materials: ASD Bulletin Board http://www.asdreams.org/subidxdiscussionsbboard.htm Dream Tree Post-Attack Board http://www.dreamtree.com/cgi-bin/Ultimate.cgi Kelly Bulkeley, Ph.D Dream Survey and comment returns http://www.kellybulkeley.com DreamGate Collection for Electric Dreams - anonymous Dreams and pre-cognitive dreams regarding and relating to the 9-11 attacks http://www.dreamgate.com/dream/temple Results of DreamGate in Electric Dreams: http://www.dreamgate.com/electric-dreams Select the October Issue MSNBC Today Show Survey Have your dreams been affected by the attack on America? http://msnbc.com/news/638012.asp World Trade Center Attack Dreams Sought Marc Ian Barasch, author of Healing Dreams, is looking for dreams pertaining to the World Trade Center attack, particularly premonitory dreams that may have occurred prior to the tragedy. Anyone interested in sharing a dream may email him at healpath@aol.com Electric Dreams, the online e-zine about dreams and dreaming, has been collecting dreams about the 9-11 tragedy at the following site: http://www.dreamgate.com/dream/temple Dreams from this site are shared with researchers and published on Electric Dreams. Please be very clear if you want your name or e-mail included. By default, we remove both and publish these dreams anonymously. ----------------- Kelly Bulkeley is collecting dreams of the 9-11 tragedy at his site. Bulkeley's work gained national attention when his research about the nightmares of Republicans and Democrats circulated in Washington. You can participate in his study at http://www.kellybulkeley.com http://www.asdreams.org/nightmare.htm Nightmares following a traumatic event are very common. Whether they picture the traumatic event directly, or involve other images and themes, or both, they probably reflect a normal healing process, and will diminish in frequency and intensity if recovery is progressing. If after several weeks no change is noted, consultation with a therapist is advisable. ASD is offering a selection of articles that are helpful both for adults having nightmares and for parents with children having nightmares. >>>>> An Alternative to Dream Orthodoxy http://www.fireflysun.com Fireflysun.com, originally designed to promote the psychology novel Fireflies in the Shadow of the Sun, has expanded its mission to mobilize the opposition of Ph.D. iconoclast J. Wyatt Ehrenfels to the professional culture within psychology. Ehrenfels writes that in the interests of a professional culture, the adequate exploration of authentic psychological phenomena like dreams has been subverted to an artificial and arbitrary class of values like credentialism, careerism, materialism, and doctrinarism. The abandonment of the "psych-" for the "- ology" (and other business rules that preserve and promote a professional persona) has been particularly detrimental to the study of dreams, a phenomenon at the heart of our human psyche. The erosion of this subject matter also results in the professional abortion of the careers of those students who are genuinely called to study the structure and dynamics of the psyche (i.e., those students for whom a passion for dreams or other natural phenomena indicates an inherent or constitutional meshing). The web site details Ehrenfels's own exploration of dreams and his criticisms of the professional bias against dreaming and dream research by modern academics and practitioners. Welcome to the tension between calling andcareer, meaning and science, scholarship and professionalism, nature and psychological law -- welcome to fireflysun.com! >>>> Revelatorium www.revelatorium.com >>>> Luminous Dreams http://luminousdreams.blogspot.com <<<<<<<<<<<<<<|||||||>>>>>>>>>>>|||||<<<<<<<<<<<< D R E A M C A L E N D A R November 2001 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<|||||||>>>>>>>>>>>|||||<<<<<<<<<<<< Nov 10 in Danbury, CT Creative Dream "Play Groups" for Adults. For more information, contact 203-744-6823 or UKHypnosis@aol.com Paperback book tour schedule for Marc Ian Barasch , author of "Healing Dreams: Exploring the Dreams that can Transform Your Life" Nov 2 3 in Santa Fe, NM . Salt Institute (lecture&workshop) (505) 954-4404 Nov 4 in Albuquerque, NM. Int'l Conf. on Science and Consciousness (505) 474-0998 Nov 9-11 in Big Sur, CA. Esalen Institute (lecture and workshop) (831)667-3000 Nov 14 in San Francisco, CA. Presidio Lecture (Institute of NoeticSciences) Nov 15-17 in Petaluma, CA. Seminar, Institute of Noetic Sciences Nov 18 in Chicago, IL. Whole Life Expo (workshop) (800) 2328828 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ** DREAMS ** DREAMS ** DREAMS ** DREAMS ** DREAMS ** DREAMS +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ New Series begins with dream-flow@egroup.com Digest #1 09/29/2000 This issue includes volume # 285 - #309 Hello and welcome to the DREAM SECTION of Electric Dreams. This section is edited by Richard Wilkerson and the DreamEditor, a software creation of Harry Bosma, author of the Dream interpretation and journaling software "Alchera". (homepage: http://mythwell.com) Please note that we print these dreams as they come to us and that means we do not correct the spelling. Some dreamworkers find these spelling mistakes a great window on the dream and dreamer. The Electric Dreams DREAM SECTION includes dreams and comments from the DREAM FLOW, a project to circulate dreams in Cyberspace. Many mail lists participate, including dream-flow@lists.best.com dreamstream@topical.com DreamsRus@onelist.com The Dream Sack http//www.deeplistening.org/ione Usenet groups (too many to name, search DREAM) If you would like to send in single dreams for the flow, you can leave them at http://www.dreamgate.com/dream/temple If you have a mail list or would like to contribute dreams and comments on a regular basis, you can subscribe to the dream-flow by sending an E-mail to TO: dream-flow-subscribe@egroups.com You may get a note back to verify the subscription. Simply hit the return or reply key and send the note back. An Archive of dream-flow is available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/dream-flow@egroups.com/ Pre-November 2000: http://www.mail-archive.com/dream-flow@lists.best.com/ Pre-November 1998 http://www.mail-archive.com/ed-core@lists.best.com/ Pre-April 1990 Use Electric Dreams Backissues http://www.dreamgate.com/dream/ed-backissues ------------------------- BEGIN --------------------------- [dream-flow] Digest Number 285 ____________________________________________________________ There are 3 messages in this issue. Topics in this digest: 1. strange dreams From: Anonymous 2. Re: Butterflies/Dates and hours From: "kim" >>> i asked my sister to look at my hair and she began to brush the back of my long hair. my hair from the outside looked gorgeous, long and dark and shiny but i felt something wrong and then my sister pulled out a big chuck of hair from the back of my head. i really did not want her to see it. but obviously she did. she told me about it, but ironically i already new it was going to happen. also even though a huge chunk of healthy hair came out, it was not noticed on my head (as if no hair had been taken).>>>>> Hair can symbolize our thoughts. It may be that how you are appearing on the outside to others or how you are presenting yourself to the world is very different than how you are feeling on the inside, and perhaps you would not want others to know your thoughts. <<>> Going to the shower seems to suggest that you wish to start afresh and on a spiritual level you know this and seek to remove the dross from your life. Others are not aware of what matters to you and this is frustrating you. The dream says to me that you can't expect others to have the same values as you, but need to respect and value your own. Live and let live....but without getting upset with others when they don't agree with the choices you make for yourself. <<>>> no comment on this part..the same message really Comments by Dreamer do not know... ? that is my question. my life style is very different than my families. i have been stressed about love? i hate my job.<>>>>>>>> ____________________________________________________________ ____________________________________________________________ Message: 4 Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2001 17:09:02 -0700 From: Anonymous Subject: (untitled dream) Sarah Dream Title (untitled dream) Sarah Date of Dream Sept (more than a week after the 11th) and i wokeup at 6:00 Dream I lived with 10-20 of my girl friends, in the motel room. We lived with my friends parents (next door neighbors in real life) and we were getting ready to go to her cousins bat mitzfah(sp)(their Hindu). The this boy from school walks out of the bathroom, making eye-contact with no one, not even paying attention to all the noise (i was the only one that saw him too) and he just walked into another room. Then somehow i end up on the top floor or this huge building sitting there. all around on its sides are flashing neon lights saying and counting down, to when the terrorists were going to destroy it. I, the only one remaining in it, was calm and just sat there even though i had plenty of time to get out. and then i woke up. Comments by Dreamer I have no clue, which is why i posted it here. ____________________________________________________________ [dream-flow] Digest Number 300 ____________________________________________________________ There are 5 messages in this issue. Topics in this digest: 1. Helicopter/Stadium flood/red brick road From: Anonymous 2. premonition From: Anonymous 3. Future and JonJon From: Anonymous 4. Strange Dream From: Anonymous 5. the red backed spider From: Anonymous ____________________________________________________________ ____________________________________________________________ Message: 1 Date: Sat, 06 Oct 2001 09:22:48 -0700 From: Anonymous Subject: Helicopter/Stadium flood/red brick road Dream Title Helicopter/Stadium flood/red brick road Date of Dream 10/5/00 6:00 AM Dream Last night I dreamed I was at some sort of stadium or event, and the building began to fall apart and flood at the same time. Me and the person I was with (I couldn't tell who it was with me) tried along with everyone to get away from this huge stadium like structure. The place, wherever it was, was a few blocks from the water. It seemed like the west coast. We found ourselves on a red brick street with tall building, seemingly of brick too. Then there was a strange helicopter that seemed big, it wasn't skinny at the end and almost seemed like a tank. I described it to my boyfriend and he showed me a picture of the Chinook and it looked just like that. The helicopter was above the street. There were tall buildings on each side of the street and the helicopter was hovering above them, so you could see it between the cracks of the buildings. The buildings were not skyscrapers, but around 8 or 10 stories. When we all saw the helicopter we starting running. We were all afraid it was going to start shooting. My companion and me ducked into an opening in the building that wasn't a door, but was more like a brick thruway. Then I woke up. ____________________________________________________________ ____________________________________________________________ Message: 2 Date: Sat, 06 Oct 2001 09:10:27 -0700 From: Anonymous Subject: premonition Dream Title premonition Date of Dream about 11:45 on 9/9/01 Dream Beginning in Las Vegas, where i actually was at the time, visiting my father. from Vegas i "walked" back to New York, to my mom. i ended up at work, at the empire state building, wondering why i was there, so i snuck out. next i was in a building staircase-(like world trade center) walking up surrounded by men in business suits. as we ascended higher the floor numbers became lower-6,5,4, as approaching 4 one of the men grabbed me by the neck, i struggled and ran down my hallway to my apartment. upon seeing my roommates i told them to avoid the guy down the hall. next scene, he was in my apartment having a so-called meeting with two other men, as he left, the two other guys held open the door, as i look down the hallway, an old co-worker was running down the hallway in a complete fit of rage, screaming in terror. when he got to my door i said to him-"so you're involved in this too." Comments by Dreamer it relates because after 9/11 i was still in vegas, being confused whether to go back to ny or stay in vegas. then the fact about having to go back to work in the empire state building. the staircases and men in business suits relates to the tragedy at the world center and my friend in a fit of rage describes the unexplainable horror that took place. prmonition or not, i believe that i felt something . ____________________________________________________________ ____________________________________________________________ Message: 3 Date: Sat, 06 Oct 2001 11:41:53 -0700 From: Anonymous Subject: Future and JonJon Dream Title Future and JonJon Date of Dream 3 weeks ago Dream I am a 21 year old male from Birmingham,Alabama.I am currently in school and I live with my mother and two dogs named Sasha and Sarh.(both Brittney Spaniels)I love to read,hang out,lift weights and movies.I have been having dreams of the future since I was 4 years old or so and my parents would freak out when I would tell them and then they actually happen.I would have one almost every other month or so and the dream would become real anywhere from a few days to a month later.The recent one that has happened is I was at the local Seafood restaurant waiting for a to-go order when out of the corner of my eye I see a man in Hospital Scrubs and then a woman coming in from a another door coming next to me.I was leaning up against one of the walls inside waiting for my order when this happens.Next to the man in the scrubs is a bench with a woman sitting in it and the counter for orders is in front of this bench with a freezer for fish and shrimp,etc.I could hear people talking and then I wake up.This dream happened about 3 weeks ago.Then when I went to the Seafood Restaurant this past Sunday the same things that happened in my dream happened while waiting for my order.Maybe you could see what it means and let me know if there is a way I could by chance do something to where I could dream something me then little things and if I could dream of other things then little bits and pieces.Usually I have regular dreams and nightmares like everyone else.Also my mom told me that my aunt and great grandmother has the same thing as me to where we all have dreams of the future and I am thinking somehow it has skipped my mom because my aunt is her sister and my great grandmother is her grandmother. Comments by Dreamer some of my dreams usually come true within a few days to a month later ____________________________________________________________ ____________________________________________________________ Message: 4 Date: Sat, 06 Oct 2001 11:42:17 -0700 From: Anonymous Subject: Strange Dream Dream Title Strange Dream Date of Dream Sep 14 2001 Dream I had this strange dream. I was on the first floor of my office building and I saw people running around and I asked someone and they said two T-Rexs were heading towards the building. One of the Rex's started to chase me and someone else up a flight of stairs we ran and ran and could here the Rex roaring and see it behind us. When we got outside on the top floor I awoke. I had this dream days after the Sept 11 Attack. Comments by Dreamer I work in a five story building. ____________________________________________________________ ____________________________________________________________ Message: 5 Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2001 09:22:36 -0700 From: Anonymous Subject: the red backed spider Dream Title the red backed spider...destini Date of Dream 0ct 6,2001 early morning hours. Dream i dreamed that i was staying the night with some friends,i came out of the bathroom and a head of me infront of the bedroom i was to sleep in was a huge spider in a big spider web that covered the length of the double doors. this spider had a red hard body resembling a crab but its legs were big and black as of a spider. my friends , infront of their bedroom door had an intercom , i called them to get up at look at this spider..they got up and looked ,it was very dark and they could not see the spider. i could see the spider crawled quickly off the web and down the stairs where the children were. i told my friends but they did not believe me but followed me down the stairs anyway. the children were sleeping on the floor.i looked under a table but could not see the spider. i knew he was in here hiding and the kids were in danger the parents thought i was imaging....i then woke up... Comments by Dreamer i have no idea how this relates to my life.im going to be a nanny for these kids soon, i dont know what the spider represents... ____________________________________________________________ [dream-flow] Digest Number 301 ____________________________________________________________ There are 3 messages in this issue. Topics in this digest: 1. alone From: Anonymous 2. blue From: Anonymous 3. being chased From: Anonymous ____________________________________________________________ ____________________________________________________________ Message: 1 Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2001 10:02:27 -0700 From: Anonymous Subject: alone Dream Title alone by:melancholy Date of Dream Oct. 2, 20012:ooa.m. till 4:30a.m. Dream I sat on the street. i could hear guns go off and bombs all around me. I saw someone crying, someone screaming. I figured i could help. I stood. everything flashed black, and the next thing i see is that i am alone. It goes to black again. A family is eating dinner. There's a loud crash, you can hear cries of despair in the distance. But the family acts as though nothing is happening. I wish I could be with them, but I am alone. Comments by Dreamer Not to be judged by a dream. Just to confirm. Permission to Comment yes_share_comments Permission Comments go ahead ____________________________________________________________ ____________________________________________________________ Message: 2 Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2001 10:15:33 -0700 From: Anonymous Subject: blue Dream Title blue Date of Dream 07/10/01 Dream 6 or 7 more planes hijacked from sydney airport, highly commando like orginisation, suspect some secret government operation as troopers were on the scene in minutes, ____________________________________________________________ ____________________________________________________________ Message: 3 Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2001 16:08:18 -0700 From: Anonymous Subject: being chased Dream Title being chased Date of Dream many times Dream Hello, My name is Tamra and I am a new member. I have been recently starting researching books, websites, and dream groups to learn more about dreams and their meanings. I am still new at this, so please bear with me. I am also looking into dream group meetings in the San Diego area and haven't been able to find anything. If anyone knows any active groups, please let me know. I am also learning to work with the medicine wheel and am currently reading several of Sun Bears books. This has helped me to learn to remember more details within the dreams. Anyway, I have had dreams (some recurring) but always the same theme, for many years now. I am a very vivid dreamer, and have always had strange dreams. I usually can remember them fairly well, and recently started keeping a dream journal. I have also had many dreams that have come true to a certain extent. There are a few dreams I would like to discuss eventually but one dream theme in particular at the moment. A dream theme that has really bothered me, especially recently is that I am being chased by someone, (sometimes a group of people) they seem to be terrorists of some sort. It seems that I have seen something, or heard something and they are trying to catch me to kill me because of it. I am always running away, through buildings, malls, sometimes a strange pink house with lots of stained glass windows. There have been times where they have caught me, and right then I wake up. In the dream I feel very scared and panicked. Sometimes I dream that I have been kidnapped by someone, and I am trying to escape, again running. Sometimes they catch me, sometimes they don't, and I wake up at that point. The evening before 9/11, I had a dream that a group of people were killing all these people, and slaughtering them, Murder and mayhem. I again had this dream after the events of 9/11. I have heard of lucid dreaming, where you can change the outcome and ask people questions in the dream etc but I have not been able to do this. And I don'' really know enough about it. I have no idea why I have had these same dreams or themes for many years now. I really would like to figure this out, and try to get them to stop. Any help, advise, theories, questions, analyzing, etc are very much appreciated. Dream on .. Tamra ____________________________________________________________ [dream-flow] Digest Number 302 ____________________________________________________________ There are 2 messages in this issue. Topics in this digest: 1. Green Sweater From: Anonymous 2. Suicide by Disembowlment From: Anonymous ____________________________________________________________ ____________________________________________________________ Message: 1 Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2001 08:34:42 -0700 From: Anonymous Subject: Green Sweater Dream Title Green Sweater Date of Dream October 1st, 3 am Dream ONe of my friends tore my green sweater, and i then wore it and one of my guy friends was wearing the same sweater ____________________________________________________________ ____________________________________________________________ Message: 2 Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2001 17:13:46 -0700 From: Anonymous Subject: Suicide by Disembowlment Dream Title Suicide by Disembowlment, melmel Date of Dream Oct 10, 2001, btwn 4:30 and 6am Dream I am skydiving, but down a line like there was a rope between the plane and the boat (inflatable raft?). falling from the plane, wind in hair, something not right, not working. my chute didn't open, I grab hold of the white line, legs grabbed by someone in the boat, fall on the inflatable cushion and when I made it down I was yelled at. It was my fault it didn't open. How? Was I lying out earlier? YES! (previous dream??), on a white lawn chair on a green lawn, legs bent w/ white sunscreen on just my knees. The person I was laying next to, large male (we seemed close, kindred), also had white sunscreen on his knees. I wasn't allowed there...on the lawn, away from the house (was it a party?), and that is why my chute didn't open. I'm in a small place, the inside of a boat...am being lifted by underneath my arms, like a child, high up in the air, swung around, onto to the higher level on the outside where he was. The man from the lawn chair, big arms, big like a football player. Lifted me like air. We were all in a room maybe 4 of us. The man sitting on the floor. An attic? I was standing. Something was wrong. why? a feeling of discomfort, awkwardness someone speaks, he does sad, resigned. Takes a sword (serrated?) and slashes open his stomach, side to side, top to bottom, then thrusts it into his open wound. Not angry just matter-of- fact. He pulls out some of his insides .sitting Indian style, his entrails glistening on his knees. We just stare, too stunned to move he was quick. I understood why he was sitting there talking, expecting to die slowly, but cut open in such a way that he couldn't survive. Very matter of factly Comments by Dreamer I'm not sure how it relates to my life, but I definitely felt a strong connection to the man in the dream. And the reason for the suicide is VERY important but I cannot remember. It is still frustrating. ____________________________________________________________ [dream-flow] Digest Number 303 ____________________________________________________________ There is 1 message in this issue. Topics in this digest: 1. Terrorists had kidnapped me and were planning to kidnap CEO's From: Anonymous ____________________________________________________________ ____________________________________________________________ Message: 1 Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 21:55:51 -0700 From: Anonymous Subject: Terrorists had kidnapped me and were planning to kidnap CEO's Dream Title Terrorists had kidnapped me and were planning to kidnap CEO's Date of Dream 9/15/01 about 3 a.m. Dream The dream was 3 days after the Sept. 11 attacks, and was very real and terrifying. In it a small group of Islamic terrorists had kidnapped me and I overhead them planning to kidnap high-raking executives, CEO's, and other officials from major American corporations. I woke up while in the middle of an attempted escape from them that seemed to be working. The dream scared me bad enough that i was awake for about an hour thinking about what I had experienced in the dream. Comments by Dreamer I read a news article a day or 2 later that indicated that the sort of plot in my dream was a very real terrorist type tactic which has in the past and could now happen. ____________________________________________________________ [dream-flow] Digest Number 304 ____________________________________________________________ There is 1 message in this issue. Topics in this digest: 1. last night's dream From: kittynp ____________________________________________________________ ____________________________________________________________ Message: 1 Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 12:37:52 -0000 From: kittynp Subject: last night's dream DREAM JOURNAL 10-12-01 SUBJECT: X-rays and other medical stuff I am working in our office. A patient comes in who needs to be seen. She is not one of my patients. She is a patient of Dr. S.. Dr. S is done for the day, so I have to see patient (even though Dr. is still there in the office). Patient's hand is bandaged and splinted with black paddles (these paddles are used in defib machine for cardiac arrest, not for splints in real life). I unwrap the bandages and remove the paddle "splints" and the patient has a large gaping hole in hand. I comment that it is looking better (makes me wonder what it looked like before as I'm writing this because it was a significant injury- not one that would typically be dressed and sending patient home-more like one where pt. Would be hospitalized for days or weeks). There is no where to place the old dressings as everything has been cleaned for the day. I decide to place in trashcan in my office and deal with it tomorrow when there are more support staff available. I stick my head in door and ask Dr. if he wants me to Xray the hand, since it is his patient. He says yes and I tell him I am not Xray tech. And because the laws have recently changed, even though I'm Nurse Practitioner, I am no longer allowed to do the X- rays. He says to "read the manual" that existing NP's, PA's and MD/DO's Have been "grandfathered" in and are exempt from new rules. I take the xray and then ask if he wants me to put in the "processor". Comments: Even though the scene of dream seems to be my office in real life- it has more of the "feel" of hospital because of the pieces of equipment ie paddles, xray machine, processor, lack of support staff and severity of patient injury. Patient has obviously come in after our normal hours. Don't get why or what has to say to me on personal level. Maybe something about-no such thing as "not my job". Reading manual seems to feel important also. I wonder given my intuitive feelings re: coming bad events, esp. between Oct. 10th-15th- and my looking for where and what the "white building" is is my white building a hospital? ____________________________________________________________ [dream-flow] Digest Number 305 ____________________________________________________________ There are 5 messages in this issue. Topics in this digest: 1. Fires and Bombs by SO From: Anonymous 2. Meeting Ghosts From: Anonymous 3. My ex-boyfriend From: Anonymous 4. Coyote Dreams From: Anonymous 5. Meeting Ghosts Venessa From: Anonymous ____________________________________________________________ ____________________________________________________________ Message: 1 Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 10:36:18 -0700 From: Anonymous Subject: Fires and Bombs by SO Dream Title Fires and Bombs by SO Date of Dream 10/9/01 3:00 a.m Dream i had i dream thaT there was fires every where and there was nobody stopping it there was wars everywhere bombs people dying and very unpleasant sights ____________________________________________________________ ____________________________________________________________ Message: 2 Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 11:28:12 -0700 From: Anonymous Subject: Meeting Ghosts Dream Title Meeting Ghosts Venessa Date of Dream September 11, 2001 Dream I was dreaming that I was in a house and ghosts were introducing themselves to me. Hundreds of them, and it was going on for hours.In the dream I was asking people- "can't anyone else see them?" My boyfriend who is an early riser said "come see this on t.v.!" Well, are they related I honestly don't know, but I often have dreams that predict the future. Comments by Dreamer I think they were the souls from 911. The day before my boyfriend and I were driving and he said "Something very bad is going to happen, it is closing in. We are very intuitive but this was beyond our normal range.I thought he was talking about our personal life.Not the life of our country. ____________________________________________________________ ____________________________________________________________ Message: 3 Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 19:37:34 -0700 From: Anonymous Subject: My ex-boyfriend Dream Title My ex-boyfriend Date of Dream Everynight 300a.m. Dream I keep having dreams that my ex- boyfriend and I are still in a relationship.In every dream I have we are getting alone and we are very happy together in my dream what does this mean? Comments by Dreamer Well me and my ex still comunicate from time to time i think we still have feeling for each other. Permission to Comment yes_share_comments Permission Comments ____________________________________________________________ ____________________________________________________________ Message: 4 Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 19:39:05 -0700 From: Anonymous Subject: Coyote Dreams Dream Title Coyote Dreams pn: Ganja Geoff Date of Dream Haveing this dream for over a year Dream I fall out of my body into a hole outside my house; I seem to fall very slowy down the hole untill I enter into a large cavern. Many strange creatures are there. I ask a stranger where I can find Coyote and he leads me to a sort of portal. I leap throught the portal and find myself in a desert. (This desert looks closer to the America Southwest than a desert with just sand) I walk and find a man in a cloak sitting around a fire. I sit near him and he removes his hood. It is the coyote. We talk about many spirtual things for a while and then I reverse my tracks back to my body and wake up. Comments by Dreamer Im still searching for the meaning of this dream. ____________________________________________________________ ____________________________________________________________ Message: 5 Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 19:38:12 -0700 From: Anonymous Subject: Meeting Ghosts Venessa Dream Title Meeting Ghosts Venessa Date of Dream September 11, 2001 Dream I was dreaming that I was in a house and ghosts were introducing themselves to me. Hundreds of them, and it was going on for hours.In the dream I was asking people- "can't anyone else see them?" My boyfriend who is an early riser said "come see this on t.v.!" Well, are they related I honestly don't know, but I often have dreams that predict the future. Comments by Dreamer I think they were the souls from 911. The day before my boyfriend and I were driving and he said "Something very bad is going to happen, it is closing in. We are very intuitive but this was beyond our normal range.I thought he was talking about our personal life.Not the life of our country. ____________________________________________________________ [dream-flow] Digest Number 306 ____________________________________________________________ There are 7 messages in this issue. Topics in this digest: 1. Fencing Men & Meteor Showers/growler From: Anonymous 2. Re: Fencing Men & Meteor Showers/growler From: Silkgypsy 3. INFANTS FUNERAL From: Anonymous 4. URGENT PLEASE HELP ME!! From: "donna scales" =============== SUBMITTING NEWS and Calendar events related to dreaming. We usually have a deadline at the 15th of each month. Send all events and news to Peggy Coats SENDING IN QUESTIONS, Replies and Concerns about dreams and dreaming. We don't pretend to be the final authority on dreams, but we will submit you questions to our network and other Internet networks. Also, you are free to post special interest requests. 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See www.dreamgate.com/dream/resources Z=Z=Z=Z=Z=Z=Z=Z=Z=Z=Z=Z=Z=Z=Z=Z=Z=Z=Z=Z=Z=Z=Z=Z=Z= The Electric Dreams Staff (Current) Z=Z=Z=Z=Z=Z=Z=Z=Z=Z=Z=Z=Z=Z=Z=Z=Z=Z=Z=Z=Z=Z=Z=Z=Z= Peggy Coats B Global Dreaming News & Calendar Events Director E-mail: pcoats@dreamtree.com http://www.dreamtree.com Kathy Turner B Dreamworker List Moderator E-mail: rcwilk@dreamgate.com Phyllis Howling - Dream Wheel Moderator (eDreams list) E-mail: pthowing@earthlink.net Victoria Quinton-Friends of Electric Dreams Electric Dreams Archives & Reporter DreamChatters Host http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/dreamchatters mermaid 8*) E-mail: mermaid@alphalink.com.au http://www.alphalink.com.au/~mermaid Lars Spivock - Research and Development Director E-mail: lars@dreamgate.com Marc Vandekeere - Awards and Lucid Dreams E-mail: thelucidbird@mediaone.net http://how.to/luciddream Richard Wilkerson - General Editor, Articles & Subscriptions & Publication E-mail: rcwilk@dreamgate.com http://www.dreamgate.com Also thanks to + The generous authors of our articles + Our many years of Dream Section Categories by Bob Krumhansl + The delightful dreamers and commentators + Our many supporters and contributors +The several illustrated versions by Dane Pestano danep@cableinet.co.uk +Thanks to Bryan Smith for many of our Web page Illustrations. http://www.thinkpiece.com/ +Jesse Reklaw - Cover Art Gallery 1994- 1997 http://www.slowwave.com/ED/covers.html + Thanks to Jay Vinton for being a guardian angel for EDreams. w=w=w=w=w=w=w=w=w=w=w=w=w=w=w=w=w=w=w=w=w=w=w=w=w=w All dream and article text and art are considered (C)opyright by the writers, artists and dreamers themselves. 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